Insomniac 'flattered' by Mario Galaxy concept

by Ross Miller { Oct 7th 2007 at 1:51AM }

Did Nintendo's mascot plumber take a cue from a heavily-armed Lombax and his robot buddy? Insomniac Marketing Director Ryan Schneider seems to think so. In an interview with Kikizo, Schneider said, "There's evidence all around us I think, of certain games that have borrowed from Ratchet and Clank. One that we're even extremely flattered by is Super Mario Galaxy, with their spherical worlds; we did spherical worlds in Going Commando, and Up Your Arsenal."

"It would be amazing to think that [Mario creator Shigeru] Miyamoto-san thought that was so cool that he wanted to incorporate it into Mario Galaxy. Granted, he's doing it in a different way, but it's still a spherical world, so it's flattering to see those sorts of things," he said.

We're not convinced, however, that it was hours of Ratchet & Clank that inspired Miyamoto's Mario ideas (though now that we think about it, that Mario Sunshine water pack is awfully suspicious ...). We wonder if the levels aren't an idea culled from strenuous play sessions with Tetrisphere. We've embedded videos of all three below as evidence to present; any other games with spherical worlds you can think of?

Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction is due out October 30.

Thug leader boss fight (from Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando):

Mario Galaxy:

And for good measure, Tetrisphere:

Tags: insomniac, mario, mario-galaxy, nintendo, ratchet-and-clank, sony

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)

Keroro @ Oct 7th 2007 1:56AM

Seems like insomniac wanted to toot their own horn, but I do love the ratchet and clank series.

Mr. P @ Oct 7th 2007 2:53AM

Toot their own horn? What fucking year are you living in?

Squeedom @ Oct 7th 2007 1:56AM

Um, anyone who has scene more of that game than like a single traielr knows that they dont just do spherical worlds, just the smaller ones are like that.

mfed3 @ Oct 7th 2007 3:56AM

ok insomniac how bout you shut the fuck up cuz you havent made a game that holds a candle to any nintendo game ever. flattered...go suck a d***. cant stand these people with their ridiculous disrespectful bs comments. rfom and ratchet and clank both suck, insomniac is one of the most overrated studios ever.

Tahiri @ Oct 7th 2007 4:40AM

Im forced to agree with Insomniac, simply because nintendo fanboys accuse Sony of copying Nintendo even though prior examples of EVERYTHING existed before Nintendo got to it. Hell Sony even had an analog controller for PS1 before the N64 even came out (its not the dual shock)

While prior examples existed, Nintendo was more than likely inspired by the more recent successful example.

Ignatius @ Oct 7th 2007 5:25AM

Watch out, God, Insomniac's copyrighted SPHERICAL WORLDS.

OH CRAP.

uep @ Oct 7th 2007 9:43AM

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's island had a circular world boss battle. I don't know the exact timelines, but since this was from a SNES title, I think it was before a PS title.

This is where I thought it was inspired from. (This is a clip of the hand-held port.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHR7hbvEvdU

Fatass of Kickassness @ Oct 7th 2007 10:20AM

Erm, Tahiri, can you link me to this pre-N64 analog PS controller? Because I, uh, don't think it actually exists.

Noshino @ Oct 7th 2007 12:30PM

Fatass of Kickassness,

Sure, here is a link to the flightstick which is considered the FIRST analog stick, announced in august 95 and relesed on april 96

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Analog_Joystick

or the dual analog sticks, which was announced on november 96 and released on april 97

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Analog_Controller

why not the LS2/LS7? @ Oct 7th 2007 1:14PM

fatass & noshino:
The Dual Analog Controller definitely exists. I have one, still in box! Although since mine is a US model, it is from after the N64 came out.

The Dual Analog stick for the PS1 is far from the first analog stick.

I had an analog stick for my (well, my parents') Apple ][ in the 70s. Also, the Atari 5200 from about 1980 was the first console with an analog stick I think.

Yoshi's Island rules.

warioswoods @ Oct 7th 2007 1:55PM

*sigh*. You're not going to save Sony from the general criticism that the dual-shock is nothing but the original ps1 controller (which is the SNES controller) plus the thumb analog of the n64. The supposed counterargument you present above, the flight stick, is irrelevant - neither Nintendo nor Sony invented analog control in general, and no one is claiming that. The N64 did, however, introduce the small, thumb-analog to a gamepad style controller, which Sony them promptly followed, and which eventually became the standard for controllers (replacing the directional-pad, which could also be largely attributed to Nintendo).

Also, Mario Galaxy has been in development for quite some time, and some of its early ideas showed up in the space areas of Mario Sunshine (released before the R&C games in question), which did not involve altered gravity yet, but did involve running across huge, rotating objects in space, a concept whose natural further development would be the worlds and gravity of Galaxy.

Tahiri @ Oct 7th 2007 2:01PM

"The supposed counterargument you present above, the flight stick, is irrelevant - neither Nintendo nor Sony invented analog control in general, and no one is claiming that. The N64 did, however, introduce the small, thumb-analog to a gamepad style controller,"

The flightstick is not only NOT irrelevant, but has a small, thumbstick on the right analog stick. Therefore Sony did NOT get the idea from Nintendo, when they did it BEFORE Nintendo. The flightstick also works as a dual shock, I have even used it to play PS3 games. Dualshock was a natural progression of Sony's existing flightstick.

Oh, and the Vectrex had the small thumbstick like a decade before Sony and Nintendo.

Jake @ Oct 7th 2007 2:10PM

Nintendo was the first console to use a thumb analog stick on the default controller. Arguing against that is just retarded.

Just like the Wiimote is the first motion controller to be introduced as the main input device. Sure, we've had light guns and accelerometers and all kinds of stuff as a random periphreal or an arcade game or whatever. But Nintendo was the first to make that the default for their console.

If you don't think Sony was copying Nintendo's successful analog stick idea, or their rumble idea, or the face button pattern and d-pad prevalent on the SNES before the Playstation brand, you are an idiot.

It doesn't mean Sony sucks. In fact, it means Sony is giving gamers what they want. Nintendo certainly copies ideas from other companies too. You would be stupid not to.

With that said, Insomniac's claim is kinda lame. They aren't the only company to have spherical worlds in a game. But the way Nintendo has made Galaxy is certainly unique, if for the pointer element alone. Just look at the vids. The game is not a basic platformer or basic Mario game.

Just chill everyone.

warioswoods @ Oct 7th 2007 2:27PM

@Tahiri - my reply to your 'rebuttal' is on page three, thanks to some (perhaps user) error with the reply-button. But that's better anyhow, no need to waste another huge chunk of space here on pg. 1 with our very picky debate.

Ignatius @ Oct 7th 2007 2:28PM

Nintendo created the directional pad with the Game and Watch.

Littleonetwo @ Oct 7th 2007 2:32PM

"The flightstick is not only NOT irrelevant, but has a small, thumbstick on the right analog stick. Therefore Sony did NOT get the idea from Nintendo, when they did it BEFORE Nintendo. The flightstick also works as a dual shock, I have even used it to play PS3 games. Dualshock was a natural progression of Sony's existing flightstick."

although that controller may have been out b4 the N64, its not like nintendo was super far away from releasing their game system. and im sure their gamepad was pretty much set in terms of design. its not like they were like "Oh crap, you see this thing, we should add it, its the next big thing!"

gee thats funny i think sony just got done doing that not that long ago...

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/09/new-ps3-controller-loses-dualshock-vibration/

dbeech @ Oct 7th 2007 2:39PM

"The flightstick is not only NOT irrelevant, but has a small, thumbstick on the right analog stick."

Holy shit, was that a triple negative?

sheppy2.0 @ Oct 7th 2007 2:57PM

Actually, Ignatius....

The D-Pad was originally used in a Mattel handheld except the buttons were seperated from each other. The configuration, however, was the first time it was used in an electronics device. Game&Watch merely took those buttons and collected them. Gumpei even stated this once.

So the DPad was NOT Nintendo's invention, merely a progression of anothers thought.

Steve @ Oct 7th 2007 5:29PM

Holy shit, was that a triple negative?

The triple negative is proof positive, er, I mean negative! Oh, forget it.

samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 7th 2007 5:37PM

Hahaha- it NEVER fails. Whenever Sony rips off Nintendo and gets called on it, the Sony Fanboy Army comes in with that stupid fucking flight stick saying Sony invented modern analog.
Damnit! If you clowns can't see the difference between a fucking FLIGHT SIMULATOR CONTROLLER and the N64 controller, there's no damn hope for you.
Nintendo invented analog control as we know it today. There's NO If's, And's or But's about that.

cc123 @ Oct 7th 2007 5:48PM

@Tahiri & Noshino

I tried the same argument a few weeks ago saying that Sony had the analog tech going on in its control before Nintendo and just like now I was assured by the batshit crazy Nintendites that it was irrelevant.

Even though Sony already had analog sticks in a dual configuration for the flightstick out to market BEFORE the N64 controller they stole the idea for analog controls from Nintendo instead of just evolving their own existing concept. All that matters is that Ninty made it popular first so Sony copied.

If any member of the hive admits that the big N didn't invent the heavens and the earth they get kicked out of the cult so save some keystrokes this argument won't go anywhere.

Just look at the schmuck above me.
=)

ELUNO @ Oct 7th 2007 5:50PM

All of you are wrong. Halo was the first game ever to use an analog controller.

warioswoods @ Oct 8th 2007 1:06AM

@cc123
Don't try to pull that 'everyone arguing against me is a fanboy' shit. What a fantastic way to get yourself out of the debate - you can't argue the points, so you skip out and say that everyone else is hopelessly biased. Why is it that those running around shooting off the 'fanboy' accusations are in fact the least impartial?

I already clearly stated above the obvious reasons why your flight stick argument is absolutely irrelevant. Yet you ignore that and pull out the old fanboy accusations. Bravo, you are a credit to your race.

cc123 @ Oct 8th 2007 2:41AM

I didn't use the word fanboy once in my entire post!

You just did though a bunch of times...hmmm

warioswoods @ Oct 8th 2007 11:40PM

Another stroke of brilliance, and another rebuttal which betrays your inability to read.

So, you avoided the actual word 'fanboy', but varied it up with astonishing wit and verbal playfulness, giving us phrases such as:

member of the hive
Nintendites
cult [of the] big N

I'm glad you've found so many clever ways to say absolutely nothing of substance; the retreat to an attack on your interlocutor's impartiality is the last refuge of one who simply can't hold his own with regards to the subject matter.

Madster @ Oct 10th 2007 3:35AM

Actually.... the thumbstick on the right analog on that PS1 joystick is called a HAT SWITCH, and it's not analog, just a 4 or 8 way switch, very common on flight sticks.
Even current ones have it.

So.... denied!

Steve @ Oct 7th 2007 1:58AM

Sonic Adventure 2 had a cool one back in the year 2001 (when Insomniac were still doing Spyro games).

holyice7 @ Oct 7th 2007 2:48AM

Sonic Adventure 2 did indeed have a spherical planet level, with multiple planets no less. It was one of Rouge's, if I remember correctly.

But damned if the concept wasn't shaky in that example; you couldn't even walk on the underside of the planets.

Crrash @ Oct 7th 2007 5:02AM

yes you could, and im pretty sure knuckles could ge there too. also it was a multiplayer map.

i dont think its so bad, they just said they would like to believe that miyamoto got the ideas from them and not "OMGEE MIYAMOTO STOLE OUR 1337 IDEAZ, LETS SUE!!!!!1111oneone".
of course they are just dreaming. Miyamoto probably never played ratchet and clank... knowing him he just thought "hey, we walk around a planet, how cool would it be to be able to jump to the moon and walk around it too, and heck, even mars"

Optimaximal @ Oct 7th 2007 7:09AM

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 had them in 1994!!!

Fatass of Kickassness @ Oct 7th 2007 10:28AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Universe have them too?

Way back in 0?

Cal @ Oct 7th 2007 3:17PM

OBJECTION!
The universe didn't exist in the year 0! It was invented in 1924!

Keroro @ Oct 7th 2007 2:02AM

That made me lose ALOT of respect of insomniac, i mean, ALOT, these dudes are just trying to get publicity off miyamoto. That disgusts me to the highest degree, RaCFToD= Not buy because even if Miyamoto "used" their idea, he'd make a damn better game with than they would

James @ Oct 7th 2007 7:20AM

First thing I thought too. Galaxy, just like Halo 3, will sell regardless of it potentially being a bad game. It will sell more than Insomniacs platform games.

Hey, shouldn't Nintendo feel flattered for all these 3D platformers copying... well... the first proper 3D platformer, aka Mario 64?

Does anyone even play that Rachet and Clank series any more?

Mr Khan @ Oct 7th 2007 12:34PM

I think it's being taken way out of context, they can't possibly think they were the first to use spherical worlds in-game (Yoshi's Island used them in 2D and Sonic Adventure 2 did it in 3D), but that they were just flattered that an idea that they had is being used by the great Miyamato

The alternative is to think them more arrogant than anyone should ever get (like, Dennis Dyack arrogant)

Trev @ Oct 7th 2007 2:11PM

Yeah, Mr Khan. I really don't understand how people are reading it differently than that.

He says it would be amazing to think that Miyamoto thought something we did was cool.

They did a really good job on the spherical areas in R&C and if Mario Galaxy's design was inspired by them, great. If it wasn't an inspiration, then he hasn't accused them of anything, in fact, he doesn't even claim R&C was the inspiration, just that he'd be flattered if it was.

Deprincer @ Oct 7th 2007 2:04AM

Is Insomnia on crack?

AndoCalrissian @ Oct 7th 2007 2:06AM

*ahem*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2daul3dFzI

Kn1ves @ Oct 7th 2007 2:43AM

you win

Yubastard @ Oct 7th 2007 3:38AM

he wins indeed! looks awesome :)

NoHitHair @ Oct 7th 2007 5:48AM

That made my day.

God I loved Yoshi's Island. What a phenomenal game.

Veko @ Oct 7th 2007 9:45AM

Haha. Awesome.

Steve @ Oct 7th 2007 11:56AM

Yoshi's Island is a circular world, not a spherical world. Getting the camera to work decently as you move around a small world is a really big deal in 3D, not so much in 2D.

SirRobert @ Oct 7th 2007 3:28AM

Perhaps you guys were unaware, but Insomniac invented spheres.

Lewis @ Oct 7th 2007 3:34AM

You stole my words.

Dark-Pen @ Oct 7th 2007 2:25AM

lol, what the. Spherical worlds is not some sort of ingenius game design idea. As much as I love the Insomniac guys, this is just crazy to even suggest such a thing. If anything, they should be flattered to SEE similar ideas being used in game design, NOT for some crazy assumption that directly links their game to someone else's unless its blindingly obvious (i.e. Tomb Raider and Uncharted).