SCEE: No plans to offer PS2 backwards compatibility later as DLC for 40GB PS3
by Ross Miller 
{ Oct 8th 2007 at 1:26PM }
"We have no plans to do so at the moment. The sheer numbers of PS2 titles available, together with the increased complexity of using a software only solution for each and every title means that to ensure accurate software emulation for the majority would be technically challenging, time consuming and costly," he said.
"As we have mentioned on several occasions, our engineering resources are now focused on developing new and innovative features and services for the PS3 and, as a result the 40GB model does not have backwards compatibility with PS2 titles," he said.
When asked about the fate of future emulation updates for 80GB and PAL-territory 60GB models that are running software-supported backwards compatibility, Sharples told us, "the current PS3 system software and future updates will continue to support backwards compatibility for the current 60GB and 80GB models." He later added, "The current solution offers around 90% backwards compatibility with PS2 titles and we are able to help publishers to make sure any new PS2 titles are backwards compatible with the 60GB and 80GB models."
Sharples had no information on today's rumor concerning the 40GB model coming to North America. Included after the break is Sony's statement confirming the loss of PS2 semiconductors in the latest model.
Regarding PSOne emulation
"The PS3 has never been equipped with either the CPU or GPU that were used in the original PlayStation, and the backwards compatibility for PS one titles has therefore been made available through software emulation from the beginning. Therefore backwards compatibility for PS1 titles remains the same no matter how many times the model is changed."
Regarding PS2 emulation
"On the other hand, backwards compatibility for PS2 titles is largely made possible through the use of actual semiconductors, supported by the PS3 system software. The 20GB and 60GB PS3 models launched in Japan and the USA were equipped with both the PS2 Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesiser chips and we could therefore guarantee over 90% backwards compatibility for PS2 titles.
"The 60GB model launched in Europe was a new model (shared with the 80GB model launched subsequently in USA) which contains only a modified version of the Graphics Synthesiser chip from the PS2 and not the Emotion Engine chip. The European launch model therefore used a combination of software and the modified version of the PS2 Graphics Synthesiser chip to deliver backwards compatibility for PS2 titles. As a result the percentage of backwards compatible PS2 titles was slightly reduced.
"The 40GB model, to be launched in Europe on 10th October, is a new model and is not equipped with any of the semi conductors from the PS2, and backwards compatibility would therefore have to be achieved by software emulation alone. The sheer numbers of PS2 titles available, together with the increased complexity of using a software only solution for each and every title means that to ensure accurate software emulation for the majority would be technically challenging, time consuming and costly. As we have mentioned on several occasions, our engineering resources are now focused on developing new and innovative features and services for the PS3 and, as a result the 40GB model does not have backwards compatibility with PS2 titles.
"The current PS3 system software and future updates will continue to support backwards compatibility for the current 60GB and 80GB models.
"Keen gamers in Europe, for whom backwards compatibility is important, can still purchase the existing 60GB PS3 Starter Pack which contains an extra SIXAXIS controller, two first party titles and has extensive backwards compatibility with PS2 titles."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:30PM
Oh, a wise guy, 'eh?! Nyuk nyuk nyuk!
Beano @ Oct 8th 2007 1:32PM
To Joystiq:
It not possible to add emulation to the EURP 40GB SKU since Sony have remove the PS2 GPU from the unit.
Today PS2 games are partially emulated thru software on the EU 60GB unit - the CPU is emulated while the GPU is still in the PS3.
But after Sony removes the GPU also, emulation is not possible thru software (to complicated to emulate).
I'm not defending Sony (the decision is retarded!) but that's the reason for no BC in the 40GB EU SKU.
mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:33PM
Honest question:
Does the 360 have any XBOX parts in it to aid emulation?
Ross Miller @ Oct 8th 2007 1:40PM
Sony engineers could conceivably work at it to make PS2 emulation run entirely on PS3 software, but it would mandate a lot of more work that Sony, from the above statements, are indicating is a low priority.
FK @ Oct 8th 2007 1:41PM
Mr Nimblewick : Similiar DVD-ROM, but that's it. It's all software.
sheppy2.0 @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
Actually, emulation IS possible through software. It will just be a massive undertaking AND have severe performance and glitch problems.
As Nimblequick said, 360 doesn't have the hardware solution. BUT it does have a licensed GPU which can be used to ease the strain. Even with that crutch 1/3 of the games that they claim work have severe performance issues.
So it can be done, SCEE just won't do it. But this brings up another interesting question, what has SCEE done besides converting TV standards in the way of software on PS3? I mean,s eriously. Majority of the update firmware updates come from Japan and Santa Monica. Japan, this will be an issue and Sony will be forced to adapt. US? I mean, hell, how many stories on how many sites are bitching about this across how many days? Like upscaling the PS2 games in the first place, this will likely be an issue where Sony is just forced to eat crow and work on it anyway.
Beano @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
"Does the 360 have any XBOX parts in it to aid emulation?"
No but the Xbox GPU has a much simpler architecture and better documented that the PS2 GPU (RSX) - basicly easier to emulate.
Anso, if emulating the RSX was realistic, Sony would allready have done this to save money at the same time they removed the CPU (emotion engine) 8 months ago for the EU PS3.
Beano @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
"Does the 360 have any XBOX parts in it to aid emulation?"
No but the Xbox GPU has a much simpler architecture and better documented that the PS2 GPU (RSX) - basicly easier to emulate.
Anso, if emulating the RSX was realistic, Sony would allready have done this to save money at the same time they removed the CPU (emotion engine) 8 months ago for the EU PS3.
slashdev @ Oct 8th 2007 2:01PM
"Does the 360 have any XBOX parts in it to aid emulation?"
From my understanding, Microsoft actually recompiles xbox games (just binaries, so the link to the new directx library, and are compiled for powerpc instead of x86..usually a 1-10 meg file) for the 360 hardware so no emulation (or very very little) is needed. Because original xbox games used a custom form of directx, GPU access isnt a problem. It is a relatively simple process, but its not 100% because of the custom directx library and some things may not translate directly (very rare though).
cartman80 @ Oct 8th 2007 2:16PM
IAMACPIRL (I am a computer programmer in real life)
I also like to disspell myths and disinformation wherever I see them.
There is no, absolutely 0, difference between hardware and software as far as logic goes. Anything that can be done in hardware, can be done in software, and vice-versa.
There is no situation that "software emulation cannot be done" - if the hardware exists, software can be written to emulate it. End of story. No if's, no but's.
Sony won't do it because they don't WANT to do it,not because they can't.
Spiza @ Oct 8th 2007 2:54PM
What about a home brew emulator? I'm sure someone is already thinking about making one. If one is made, sony had better actually support and even offer it as a download off the PS network.
LaughingTarget @ Oct 8th 2007 2:56PM
Mr. Real Life Programmer forgot a major point in the argument. Yes, anything can be done in software that can be done in hardware, but it won't always be done as well. If software were just fine, we wouldn't have GPUs or sound processors. CreativeLabs, Turtle Beach, Nvidia and ATI wouldn't exist if everything were possible in software.
Hardware makes it easier to get things done. It takes a remarkably more powerful processor to do in software what took hardware to do.
We also have to consider Sony's focus. Sony isn't particularly experienced or good at software aspects. They're a hardware company. For them, getting software emulation running would actually make the unit more expensive since they'd have to hire decent software programmers and give them months to get the thing running right, not to mention more months of patching, which is counter to what Sony is trying to do, get the price down.
ukickmydog (NDF - Earth) @ Oct 8th 2007 4:42PM
LOL sheppy, do you like the taste of shit? because that's all i hear coming from your mouth
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 8th 2007 5:09PM
How is anything Sheppy said false? He just wrote one of the more informed posts on tis topic and you're telling him he's wrong? RUH?!
Of course they could write emulation software, but it'd be glitchy and buggy as Hell. See also: Xbox360 backwards comaptibility.
sheppy2.0 @ Oct 8th 2007 6:18PM
It perplexes me. Half the NDF is a swell bunch of guys. I'd be willing to game with them anytime. Then other other half are like ulickmydog. It's odd to me, I just can't find an explanation....
Thanks for the defend, samfish.
Raikage (NDF - PK THUNDER RING) @ Oct 9th 2007 12:24AM
Sheppy, It's because you come across as a Sony fan (although sly). I guess just some people can't see that.
Sometimes you (sly-ly lol) write a good post, but near the end (sometimes the beginning) you throw in a comment that has a little bit of Sony bias, not that it is a bad thing, just some see it, some don't.
But heck, you like the PS3. Not the most popular choice but you obviously don't care what they think(BTW I was an Xbox fan back in the dizay, for reasons other than Halo, and I didn't like the PS2(broke 2 weeks after warranty err), I know what it's like to be in the minority lol).
Heck, I'd play online with you, but all I have is a Wii (BOO URNS). LOL
BTW in NDF, the "N" stands for NINJA!
Burnt Meatloaf @ Oct 9th 2007 8:04AM
Samfish: "Of course they could write emulation software, but it'd be glitchy and buggy as Hell. See also: Xbox360 backwards comaptibility."
See also that Microsoft doesn't own the XBox architecture, so they have to reverse-engineer everything from scratch in their emulator. Sony fully owns the PS2 architecture, so they could make a pretty damn good emulator if they wanted to.
I'm confused. Sony spent billions developing the PS3, over a billion just on the Cell processor. Yet, they can't hire a crack team for $10 mil or so to make an emulator from their core IP that would help save the platform from floundering, to say nothing about improving PR?
I think it's just politics. The hardware teams don't want to give the proper information to the software team due to IP paranoia. There's a lot of nasty infighting that can happen between different divisions of a company. Emulating the CPU was easy because Sony simply licensed the CPU core from another company, so it's easier to deal with IP issues between departments in that case.
mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:32PM
Well, as everyone knows, the PS2 didn't have any good games, so why would you want BC anyway?
nowhere @ Oct 8th 2007 1:35PM
You forget to mention that the PS3 also has such a massive selection of top quality games that no one would ever need to go back a generation.
LiqwidZero @ Oct 8th 2007 2:14PM
Sony did, after all, state that it is just a Blu-Ray player. Or, at least, that's what they're marketing it as.
Cal @ Oct 8th 2007 3:36PM
Lol at all Europeans buying a PS3.
Cal @ Oct 8th 2007 3:37PM
Stupid reply system.
jsn @ Oct 8th 2007 1:33PM
of course not, that would just confuse their customers....
James @ Oct 8th 2007 1:34PM
Weak.
jorojoserojas @ Oct 8th 2007 1:35PM
Well, there goes my previous thought.
TJ0331 @ Oct 8th 2007 1:38PM
Holy crap, Joystiq is listening! Come on guys, just ten more stories on the same freaking topic! Next headline can read, "Why there isnt BC in the PS3." and then you can put "No BC for PS3, why?" and then "PS3 - BC = no fun" Shit guys, just add updates like you always do, you wrote about this like 5 times in two days, ease it up.
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:42PM
Hahaha! This story is really holding a lighter to you Sony fanboy's balls, isn't it? You guys've been rather "testie" since this story broke!
nowhere @ Oct 8th 2007 1:43PM
Yeah, who wants the official word from Sony anyways?
Shouldn't you Sony fanboys be lapping at their feet anytime they say anything?
Mr Khan @ Oct 8th 2007 2:09PM
Well, as joystiq generally reports on what other journalistic sources do or say, the stories that get all the flamebait tend to be repeated elsewhere, and tend to get repeated here
The "Duct Tape" comment got how many write-ups, again?
TJ0331 @ Oct 8th 2007 2:29PM
You are right, I am a huge sony fanboy. That would explain why I own 3 xbox360s right? http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/Chucksteak0331/100_2831.jpg Good try dumb shits. I was just hoping for some different stories.
Matt B @ Oct 8th 2007 3:33PM
samfish,
Why does it burn us? We already have PS3's with BC.
Guybrush Threepwood (Sega Defense Force - Infallibility Ring) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:37PM
"We have no plans to do so AT THE MOMENT."
It's good to know that there's at least a chance of it in the future if enough people ask for it or something.
And for people who say it's impossible, I would think adding PS2 BC would be as simple as modifying the Cell's code to allow it to run PS2 games.
The 360 can obviously run Xbox games, and AFAIK it has none of the original Xbox's hardware.
Akamaru @ Oct 8th 2007 1:37PM
If you really wanna show $ony how retarded and not-going-to-work this is, I got a really good way to stick it to them. Ready?
Dont't buy it. Thats it. really.
NATO_Duke @ Oct 8th 2007 1:59PM
FYI: Folks tune out to your comment when you say $ony or M$. Just makes you look too slanted to comment without spewing bias.
Psaakyrn @ Oct 8th 2007 5:57PM
Makes me glas that Nintendo doesn't have an S in any of their current consoles... other than the D$.
J-Guy @ Oct 8th 2007 1:38PM
*sound of brain exploding*
AstroZombie @ Oct 8th 2007 1:56PM
*GSPLORCHH*
chispito @ Oct 8th 2007 1:38PM
My guess is despite the company line, they're already trying to figure out a strategy to deal with the blowback about the BC issue. Even if they have to develop a new unit that does feature it, someone in Marketing Research is going to get the axe and eventually they'll give people what they want.
loungemonkey @ Oct 8th 2007 1:41PM
There is another option....buy a 60GB Dun Dun DUN!!!
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:42PM
If you give me $100 bucks, sure.
vinny @ Oct 8th 2007 2:23PM
the titanic was more stable then the ps3
DemiurgicSoul @ Oct 8th 2007 1:43PM
I don't really see the big deal about BC. I have all of my last gen consoles hooked up to my old SD TV and my next gen ones hooked up to my HD TV. If I want to play a last gen game I'll just go into a different room to play it. I would much rather save $100 on the console to buy PS3 games than have BC.
mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
You = everyone.
NATO_Duke @ Oct 8th 2007 2:12PM
I would rather have the one machine hooked up and be able to use it for both PS2 and 3 games - rahter than bounce between the consoles at this point. Folks with all the consoles over the years would probably like not having to have them all hooked up at once to play a game when the urge hits.
Hell, even Nintendo can play GC games - and that units only $250.
Jonah Falcon @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
Seriously, Sony either fucking hates its fans, or just takes them for granted in the most arrogant way possible.
Noshino @ Oct 8th 2007 2:37PM
It's the same with all the companies..
Nintendo:
-Reciclying their consoles and adding "new" "revolutionary" features
-Milking franchises
-Moving to the casual gaming market
Microsoft:
-Craptastic hardware quality
-Somewhat awful BC
Sony:
-RUMBLE IS LAST GEN!! (I don't use it, but it was funny, lol)
-Good BC at the beginning, then taking it away on the latest SKU (somewhat retarded, taking in mind that there are other SKUs available with BC)
Mr Khan @ Oct 8th 2007 4:02PM
I actually *agree* with Noshino, wow
He is right, though, these console companies are really a stupid lot, when you come right down to it, really resistant to change
Zertoss @ Oct 8th 2007 1:46PM
Hey, Sony, I have a great idea for a SKU. Next time, release a console that has BC, all the USB ports and stuff, but no hard drive, and make it under $300 USD.
I'd buy it.
JP @ Oct 8th 2007 3:43PM
or remove the ability to play bluray movies :D price could really drop with that
Chris @ Oct 8th 2007 1:49PM
Whats that sound?
It sounds like metal hitting dirt, over and over again....
Must be Sony digging their grave