PS3's Guitar Hero III dongle explained, leading to more questions [update]
by Alexander Sliwinski 
{ Oct 11th 2007 at 1:58PM }
Answers are slowly starting to emerge about the mysterious dongle the PS3 uses for wireless guitar capabilities in Guitar Hero III. The over-simplified version is that even though PS3 and Wii both use Bluetooth, the Wii guitar plugs directly into the Wiimote hijacking the signal, while the Sixaxis doesn't plug into the guitar -- hence the USB wired dongle as a wireless bridge.Before we go any further, this isn't just a GH III problem. Rock Band will also use some sort of PS3 dongle. This might also explain a lot about why there isn't a Wii version of Rock Band announced yet. Although it's completely disputable, here's our basic idea: Two USB ports on the back of the Wii for the drum and mic (which are wired on every console), then if Harmonix wants the guitars to be wireless they need to design a guitar modeled around the Wiimote to plug into so that Rock Band does the same signal hijack that GH III accomplishes.
Apparently Sony doesn't feel up to talking about why these dongles are necessary as they stonewalled 1UP when the site went looking for answers. Maybe Sony will give Red Octane and Harmonix the tools to make their guitars work dongle-less one day, but to get things done for this holiday season this was the only (or most cost effective) solution available.
Update: We were trying to avoid bringing the Xbox 360 into this, but considering there is some confusion, the Xbox 360 version of Guitar Hero III is "dongle-less." Meaning a direct connection is made between the guitar and Xbox 360. Regarding Guitar Hero I & II support on PS3, Red Octane wrote us: "In regards to your other question about GH and GHII (on PS2), they do work on PS3 (w/ both SG and Kramer), though they will require an appropriate adapter for the guitar controller."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Carlos @ Oct 11th 2007 2:05PM
OH Noes! there is a dongle hanging out of my PS3! Now it doesn't feel like it's really wireless! I'm not buying this!!...is this really a problem?
Grant @ Oct 11th 2007 2:04PM
it really is odd.
If your going to pay the licensing fees to put bluetooth in your device, why not let others utilize it?
upz @ Oct 11th 2007 2:35PM
Yeah this doesn't make any sense. I was under the impression that anything conforming to Bluetooth standards would work. If Bluetooth keyboards, mice, headsets all work out of the box without being designed specifically for PS3, why wouldn't a Bluetooth guitar work?
copa @ Oct 11th 2007 2:44PM
I thought the Microsofties were complete idiots when I found out that it was difficult and expensive for third-parties to make wireless controllers for the 360.
Now, it appears that all three console makers have problems in this area.
Jesus Christ, it's 2007. How can anyone (much less three corporations) release a console at this point under the assumption that only first-party wireless controllers will ever need to be supported?
Leo-Jay @ Oct 11th 2007 4:12PM
Probably, the Bluetooth is "closed pairing" and only recognizes its own controllers specifically. The Wii gets around this by making the peripheral part of the controller proper through the Accessory Port; the PS3 doesn't have this advantage.
why not the LS2/LS7? @ Oct 11th 2007 5:47PM
The PS3 Bluetooth is not closed. I use it with a 3rd party Bluetooth headset. And I'm not alone.
Let's not be so quick to jump to conclusions here.
dsub @ Oct 12th 2007 12:24AM
In the case of MS, it IS first party proprietary technology, to an extent. It's essentially just 2.4 Ghz wireless, but MS has likely imbedded some sort of digital signal that tells the 360 whether or not the device can be used. This is what companies must pay for. However, with the PS3 and Wii, it isn't that Sony/Nintendo are charging extra, it's that they use Bluetooth.
First of all, it costs extra money to liscense the Bluetooth technology. So there would be added costs there. Secondly, I'm sure Red Octane was searching for the most cost effective way to make guitars for all 4 systems (PS3, PS2, 360, Wii) by using the dongles and NOT Bluetooth, they can essentially use the 2.4 Ghz wireless tech in 3 of the 4 guitars. The Wii guitar probably costs them pennies to make, because it doesn't have any wireless tech in it at all, it just outputs all the signals through the Wiimote.
So if they can use all the same guts for the guitars, then they will save a ton of money by not having to release a completely different spec for each system.
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 2:04PM
So, obviously, the guitars don't use Bluetooth...
Is it because it cost money to license Bluetooth??
I can only think it's that. So this dongle must be a radio deal...definitely not RF or BT...so radio it is.
BPM (FDF - Hypno-Toad) @ Oct 11th 2007 2:16PM
RF = radio frequency
So, you're saying it's not radio, but it is radio? I'm confused.
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 2:49PM
My bad...I meant to say, so no Infrared or BT, must be radio(RF). Thanks for the pick up.
BPM (FDF - Hypno-Toad) @ Oct 11th 2007 3:28PM
Infrared would be a terrible choice, lemme tells ya.
For IR to work, you'd have to have the transmitter pointed directly at the receiver! Nintendo did this with Game Boy Color, and needless to say, it was widely underused.
Grant @ Oct 12th 2007 12:18AM
"For IR to work, you'd have to have the transmitter pointed directly at the receiver! Nintendo did this with Game Boy Color, and needless to say, it was widely underused."
well that was at the point when the only things using the system link didn't require you to actually hold and actively use the gameboy. IMO, it was a nice convenience over needing that damn cable all the time, but it got used even less than the IR sensors on every nokia phone ever made.
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 2:06PM
Forgot to ask:
Will this new PS3 guitar allow you to play the older PS2 versions of the game on your PS3?
lessbiasedthanmost @ Oct 11th 2007 2:15PM
Good question.
So Joystiq.......will it?
why not the LS2/LS7? @ Oct 11th 2007 2:44PM
GH3 FAQ says GH3 guitars are not compatible with GH1 and GH2.
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 2:52PM
This guitar not being compatible with the older PS2 games is just a stupid mistake.
The more and more I think about it...seems as if Sony intends on keeping the PS2 alive allot longer than we think. Removing BC....and possibly dropping the price to $99.
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 2:07PM
So, the best guitar is the Wii version?
Nice =)
Mrg @ Oct 11th 2007 2:30PM
Well, if ur basing ur opinion off the information in this post regarding how the PS3 needs an adapter and the Wii does not, then really in that sense, the Xbox 360 has the "best" since it neither requires an adapter nor does it have to be hooked up to a separate controller.
Almack64 (NOF - Ultrazord) @ Oct 11th 2007 2:32PM
It's nice to know that 3rd parties have documentation on the controller port. Hopefully more unique uses of it will show up.
vinny @ Oct 11th 2007 2:36PM
nope, the best guitar is the 360 version because i already have a gh2 guitar and i can just buy the game and save money :P
WiNG @ Oct 11th 2007 3:57PM
Yes the Wii version will be best due to force feedback and sound feedback from the acutal guitar.
However Fernando plz stop trolling the Sony posts it's getting old even for a Wii owner.
dsub @ Oct 12th 2007 12:29AM
Force Feedback? Wtf are you talking about? How in the hell (and why in the hell) would a Guitar game have Force Feedback? I'm pretty sure that when playing the guitar there are not G forces and gravitational pulls that would need to be simulated through the use of Force Feedback. This isn't a racing game.
Also, Sound feedback hasn't been confirmed or mentioned at all yet.
dsub @ Oct 12th 2007 12:31AM
I would also like to add that the 360 guitar will be more efficient in terms of battery usage. First of all, the Wiimote eats batteries alive, second of all, I won't have to use up all my standard controller's batteries to play the game.
JesseJames @ Oct 11th 2007 2:14PM
What is the big deal! So what! it needs a dongle; big deal; connect a dongle and play till your heart is content.
It's hate on Sony time cause the holidays are here and they are going to sell a ton of consoles. In their first year with bloggers/editors trashing them because of price; they still managed to sell half of what Microsoft sold in two years time without their big name titles appearing.
How can any of you respect yourselves; you all said the original xbox was a success and better than the PS2 and nothing could be further from the truth. We all know how the xbox 1 did against the PS2 which is still around today.
Wow; the 360 has wired controllers for Guitar Hero II; why aren't any of you jockin on them for doing so?
CaptNink @ Oct 11th 2007 2:18PM
Uh... a little over-defensive are we?
BPM (FDF - Hypno-Toad) @ Oct 11th 2007 2:18PM
1) It isn't hate, but curiosity. Since PS3 uses the Bluetooth standard for controllers, people assumed the guitar controllers would use it, too.
2) Uh, yeah, people DID complain about the wired GHII controller for 360. A lot of people did, actually. Guess you weren't around for that, huh?
CaptainAmericaX @ Oct 11th 2007 2:19PM
Actually I heard there are wireless 360 controllers...
CaptainAmericaX @ Oct 11th 2007 2:19PM
Actually I heard there are wireless 360 controllers...
jsn @ Oct 11th 2007 2:48PM
c'mon you knob... the BS3 was billed as the console that had everything, for a price. Built in wifi, bluetooth, HD, blu-ray, etc etc etc. So wireless periphs need a dongle? At least pretend to have some common sense..
Ben @ Oct 11th 2007 3:10PM
Oh noes fanboy angry at all the big bully fanboys. Why do you care what they say about the ps3? Unless you lack confidence in your console purchase. This was a calm discussion until you started flaming.
James @ Oct 11th 2007 4:13PM
Wake me up when they sell a ton of systems.
Wait shit no! I won't wake up!
TRUTH @ Oct 11th 2007 4:16PM
JesseJames Sorry but you LOSE!
Jim Halpert DM @ Oct 11th 2007 2:17PM
Um...why don't they just cut cost and just make it wired than? I mean everytime I see my friend's electric guitar I see a wire attached. A wire only adds to the realism.
lessbiasedthanmost @ Oct 11th 2007 2:18PM
Well, unless I'm mistaken, the dongle connects to the PS3 which has ample USB ports to spare (unless you're getting the 40gig). This makes all of the versions identical, wireless is wireless even if it's got an adaptor for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the 360 be wireless too without anything to plug in?
lessbiasedthanmost @ Oct 11th 2007 2:19PM
Mission (to reply to fernando) Failed.....
SNAKE!!!
aunt jemima @ Oct 11th 2007 2:27PM
last i heard 360 versions of the game comes with wired guitar. maybe you can bye a wireless later not sure about that.
grapejoos @ Oct 11th 2007 3:03PM
It's Rock Band that comes with a wired guitar for the 360 (if you buy the bundle). The pack-in guitar for GH3 on the 360 is wireless.
NATO_Duke @ Oct 11th 2007 2:24PM
"Apparently Sony doesn't feel up to talking about why these dongles are necessary as they stonewalled 1UP when the site went looking for answers."
Yeah, they are usually so easy to get answers from...
Hardcore @ Oct 11th 2007 2:28PM
In all honesty; I don't see it that deserves negativity, if the guitar works fine, why should I care about that. This is kinda feel like desperate attempt to criticize Sony.
DarthDavid @ Oct 11th 2007 2:27PM
That makes the PS3 look like it has a pair of balls (really low hanging ones) =(
BPM (FDF - Hypno-Toad) @ Oct 11th 2007 3:29PM
PS3 should go see a doctor for that.
aunt jemima @ Oct 11th 2007 2:36PM
i'd like to know how this will work if for ps3's version of rock band if you get a 40 GB, when you want to get more than 2 instruments involved. there is only 2 posts for them right? iwas gonna get one when they came out if they are only 399. i'm not a huge fan of these type of games but it is interesting if i deside to invest in rock band some day.
robert @ Oct 11th 2007 2:38PM
so, are Red Octane and Harmonix incapable of figuring out how to implement bluetooth in the guitars on their own?
it's not like the PS3 has some unique proprietary form of bluetooth that only sony knows the secrets of how to operate.
lessbiasedthanmost @ Oct 11th 2007 3:09PM
They can't add it because it's too hard to develop an interface that doesn't use RF signals.
robert @ Oct 11th 2007 3:58PM
it's too hard, there's just 5 buttons and the strum and whammy bar... it must be near impossible to program for a bluetooth keyboard with over 100 keys
Autopsy15 @ Oct 11th 2007 2:40PM
Dongleless? I don't like that word. Please never use it again, Joystiq.
lessbiasedthanmost @ Oct 11th 2007 3:10PM
Is it because you too, are dongleless?
Autopsy15 @ Oct 11th 2007 5:38PM
No. I love dongles. Dangling dongles especially. Dangling dongles, dangling dongles, dangling dongles. Did I just rape your mind? So sorry.
why not the LS2/LS7? @ Oct 11th 2007 2:46PM
Don't care. Here's what I do care about.
You can buy GH3 (just the game) for PS2.
You can buy GH3 (just the game) for 360.
You cannot buy GH3 (just the game) for PS3, you must buy a bundle with a guitar. This despite the fact that the GH3 FAQ says GH3 supports PS2 guitars on PS3 with a USB adapter.
Harmonix, I want to buy GH3 for PS3, but I don't want to buy more guitars. Why will you not let me? Why will you let 360 people (which I am one of, but I don't have any 360 guitars) do it?
If you force me down to PS2, then you can't sell me any DLC contant, and it's $10 cheaper! What gives?
HeyTone @ Oct 11th 2007 3:01PM
Although not a HUGE deal, everyone seems to be dismissing the fact that these systems support a wireless standard ON BOARD. Dongles work in all cases- there were dongles on the PS2, and XBOX (guitars, dance pads, logitech controllers). It just seems like we shouldn't have to deal with these dongles anymore.
Again, not a HUGE deal, but still....