Valve's Gabe Newell comes down hard on PS3
by Justin McElroy 
{ Oct 11th 2007 at 10:10AM }
Valve's Gabe Newell has been pretty open about his displeasure with the PS3 in the past, and it's clear from a recent interview that time has not softened him, calling the system "a waste of everyone's time" in Edge magazine last week. Newell continued, saying, "Investing in the Cell, investing in the SPE gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created. I don't think they're going to make money off their box. I don't think it's a good solution."Though Newell is one of the few developers in a position to speak out on the system (we would too if our game was rocking a 98 on Metacritic), a slew of PS3 game delays have us wondering: Is he speaking the minds of more than we know?
[Via CVG]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Schoon @ Oct 11th 2007 10:13AM
Tell 'em, Gabe.
Marty @ Oct 11th 2007 10:51AM
Gabe FTW
primetime4 @ Oct 11th 2007 10:57AM
If this is the case I want to know how Insomniac created such a great release game with RFOM. Are they just better developers? Inside help maybe? The fact that others have already gotten it right kind of defeats that he has to say.
Dave @ Oct 11th 2007 11:01AM
RFOM didn't exactly get super-stellar reviews. It was a decent game for a launch title--but games like Gears of War and Bioshock make it seem dated. By now, you'd think there'd be something else to talk about other than RFOM.
Matt B @ Oct 11th 2007 11:05AM
He also hates the Mac and says that DirectX 10 was a mistake. Sounds like someone who hates change.
He worked for MS for 13 years before starting Valve.
GamerG @ Oct 11th 2007 11:09AM
As a top guy in Valve he is one of the few devs who can freely say what they think without worrying about the ramifications so its like a breath of fresh air to hear him speak!
We all know that he is only reflecting what other devs are saying/telling him but are too worried about their careers to come out and say it!
WELL DONE GABE!
Negativecool @ Oct 11th 2007 11:19AM
I think Sony assumed that because the PS3 is not a PC they didn't need a more common PC architecture. They figured they could do what they did with the PS2, and create something that is entirely unique and thereby difficult to learn, but leave open the possibility getting more and more out of the hardware every year.
Unfortunately for Sony, they were wrong. The PS3 isn't and won't sell nearly as well as the PS2 which means the PS3 isn't as much of an economical incentive for devs to learn the architecture.
I think Sony's miscalculation was that if it designed a console that was able to produce graphics the likes of PC's the architecture should have been more like a PC, for ease of development, and for greater ease in porting from PC to PS3. 360 is the perfect example of this.
The PS3 is the new PS2 without all the millions sold. Good luck to Sony in trying and make devs submit this generation. It is unfortunate that everything Newell said is correct.
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 11:28AM
primetime - insomniac is in sony's pocket, they have no choice but to develop for ps3. same with naughty dog i think
DemonGSides @ Oct 11th 2007 11:35AM
And, unlike other 3rd Party developers, they probably got a ton of help from Sony in deconstructing the nightmare that is the architecture of Cell
Yubastard @ Oct 11th 2007 11:41AM
The PS3's architecture will only pay in future iterations of the system (PS4, PS5, etc.), as the system is so scalable that system performance can be doubled by simply adding a second Cell processor.
Have you seen the Killzone 2 dev papers? Some SPUs are being used very little, and none is used completely, it can still be pushed. It's very difficult but I bet it can be very, very rewarding architecture. It just doesn't have a very powerful PPC component on which to run the main game loop, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.
sometimes I wonder if in future revisions of Cell, there will be a stronger PPC, possibly dual-core... maybe at 45nm?
I bet Gabe Newell dreams about it.
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 12:06PM
well if sony makes a ps4 that's just 2 ps3's duct-taped together, i don't care, as long as it's not overpriced (like the current ps3) and has at least 5 games I want to play on it (unlike the current ps3)
Jake @ Oct 11th 2007 12:30PM
The cell was a bad choice for the PS3. People were saying that before the damn system even came out. Sony chose the cell to help cost reduce it and get it into other, larger volume, applications.
While that strategy may eventually work out financially, it is no doubt hurting the PS3. Sony figured they could push bluray and the cell with the PS3, effectively maxing its cost with one and difficulty to make games for with the other, and still sell on brand name alone.
If Sony had made a system like the 360 only without RRoD and launched with the 360, they'd be pwning this generation. Instead they got greedy and tried to use the PS3 as a blunt instrument to catapult bluray and cell into other applications.
Again, their strategy may turn out wise overall, but it will certainly hurt the PS3 and especially the loyal Playstation fans that still have to talk about Resistance. ;)
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 1:22PM
PS3 is too hard...wahhhhhhhhh! I would rather just port my PC titles over to the 360...that way it's easier, and I can go grab another box of donuts to inhale.
primetime4 @ Oct 11th 2007 2:11PM
Dave, I agree with what you said about Bioshock and we really should be talking about something other than RFOM for the PS3 by now. But all the reviews I have read for it are stellar. Personally, I enjoyed it more than Gears.
FrankTheCrank @ Oct 11th 2007 1:57PM
Funny...first Gabe says he hates the PS3 architecture....but then he goes on to talk about multi core processors and how that's the future...and how their going to recompile their games to run on these multicores CPU's.
So he hates the CELL(multi-core)...but has not choice but to program for multicores. ?????
shamgar @ Oct 11th 2007 3:08PM
Frank you don't know what you are talking about. Just because something is "the future" doesn't mean it will work out good now. Its one thing moving from 1 powerfull core to 2 or 4 powerful cores. Its completely different to move to 1 old core with a bunch of special purpose cores. And just so you know, when Gabe Newell says something about gaming, thats like Kerrigan and Ritchie telling you about C. However since you had no idea what you were takling about from the beginning you probably have no idea what I am talking about.
Adam @ Nov 2nd 2007 3:24PM
this guy needs to grow up. He is just a fanboy, and im sick of it. Hey i have a ps3, and i dont go hating on 360s?! Leave it alone because Killzone 2, basicaly got the award for "best graphics and physics". if you dont believe me you tube "Killzone 2 2007". and also, this guy is not looking at the entire picture. The blue ray is going to be the futer of gaming because of how much it holds. so, hey w/e
ukickmydog (NDF - Earth) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:13AM
wow...
that was surprisingly harsh
Marty @ Oct 11th 2007 10:49AM
Hey, the truth hurts sometimes.
GRANTED @ Oct 11th 2007 2:40PM
it must also hurt to have a neck that is fatter than your face.
Kamall @ Oct 11th 2007 10:15AM
Oh my friggin goarsh! More bad PS3 news!
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:19AM
Gabe Newell and Sony fighting. It's like the Joker vs Luthor.
...who do I root for?!
FOXHOUND @ Oct 11th 2007 10:36AM
He's as fat as the Penguin though...
GRANTED @ Oct 11th 2007 2:39PM
why did he get voted down. the guy is fat. very fat. makes me wonder about some of the readers here.
hotnutz @ Oct 11th 2007 3:09PM
why would you have to wonder? Most are juvenile and will be happy that Hitman is PG-13 because now they can get in.
I would also like to add that I'm sure 50% of people probably used to kiss Romero's feet at one point. My point being that the fanboys on this site are as fickle as Peter Moore.
Kent Houseman @ Oct 11th 2007 10:20AM
Oh sweet I can do it this time.
SONY DEFENSE FORCE UNITE!!1!one!
thomasLogic @ Oct 11th 2007 10:21AM
What rock is he from? Bashing the PS3 for it's different approach to the virus ridden PC world is like bashing the PS2, the most purchased console in history. The PS2 didn't conform to the industry, the industry conformed to it. Gabe, stay off the Jolt cola, we need ya.
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:51AM
what did the ps2 do that was so different from PC's and gamecubes and xbox's? I'm curious
xyz @ Oct 11th 2007 12:12PM
Yes, because viruses are totally based on hardware architecture and not software exploits.
If you're choosing to create a unique architecture that is difficult to learn for developers, you need to also create an incentive to spend the time to learn it. Sony's crippling price point and poor marketing have severely limited that incentive.
The PS2 was by all accounts the most inferior console of last generation (not including DC). It did not succeed because of the emotion engine, it succeeded by being first to market, capitalizing on the blossoming DVD market, and gaining a sizable install base that attracted devs and provided incentive to learn the architecture. PS3 is missing all of the things that made PS2 a success.
Prof_Chaos @ Oct 11th 2007 1:06PM
You are unbelievably wrong if you think that consoles are going to be immune from viruses for long. As they converge more and more with PC's and Media Centers expect to see viruses start showing up. It will probably be constrained to malicious programs that 'brick' your box, but they will hit all consoles once you can get software from other sources (websites, External HDD, or flash cards).
As to the statements made....this is nothing new, it's just nice to hear it said buy a dev instead of a media outlet.
xyz @ Oct 11th 2007 2:03PM
Dude, do you understand how viruses work? 9 times out of 10 they need to be bundled into an executable. If a console is running an executable, it is going to be from an official source (DLC) or it is going to be unauthorized code which will only run on modded consoles. Since modded consoles are an extremely small market, why would someone bother to write a virus attacking it? Sure it is possible, but it is highly unlikely. The reason there are little to no viruses on linux or mac systems is the same reason there won't be on consoles - it is a niche market that virus makers don't care about.
WTangoFoxtrot @ Oct 11th 2007 10:21AM
finally someone with guts enough to speak against the crap sony has been showing down the throats of its fans !!
Token White Guy @ Oct 11th 2007 11:00AM
He's not a big fan of the 360 either.
NATO_Duke @ Oct 11th 2007 11:08AM
I thought the whole internet has been doing that (schooling Sony) for months now.
But yeah, coming from Valve, it would make most other companies think - but Sony...not so much I'm sure.
HolyChachi @ Oct 11th 2007 10:21AM
ps3 FTL!!!
wii FTL!!!
360 FTW!!!
I own all three so im not a MS fanboy, im just sayin, i haven't played my wii in the last 3 months, and anything good that has come out on the ps3 has been better on the 360. The only non360 game that im lookin forward to is Metal Gear. That game will be flippin sweet! Im pulling for all 3 systems, but face it the 360 is hot, no seriously...it's hot, it's about to overheat...RROD!! Aghhhhh....
Jerk Face @ Oct 11th 2007 10:23AM
LOL
FOXHOUND @ Oct 11th 2007 10:41AM
If I did drugs, I wanna do the ones this guy's on. He's in some kind of wonderful trip right now... and I'm envious.
StrangeBum @ Oct 11th 2007 10:52AM
@Foxhound
He was licking toads. I know this for a fact. Do not question it.
Also about the news, damn, he was a little harsh. A little brash, but I really don't care too much for the PS3 myself. Maybe one day.
NATO_Duke @ Oct 11th 2007 11:12AM
The only game I jumped on for my PS3 as of late was Warhawk, after doing the beta I was excited for it - but I have yet to take the plastic off it. :(
Bioshock, Halo 3, the Darkness, and a few others were just more compelling at drawing my time in the end.
baby sea tuna @ Oct 11th 2007 1:40PM
I love that avatar.
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:22AM
Poor Sony, really. I feel sorry for them, but then, I realize that they deserve to be in this position.
vinny @ Oct 11th 2007 11:13AM
Poor Sony nothing, this is exactly what they get for trying to force another damn media format. They pretty much fucked up the next movie format for everyone since if we want to watch our HD movies, we have to buy 2 players now, fuck them. I hope HD-DVD wins and the ps3 goes down in flames.
Kyrra @ Oct 11th 2007 12:20PM
@vinny
It's a 2-way street. Everyone else could have adopted to BluRay instead of going to HD-DVD. The patent holders for both formats want to be the money makers, so they fought it out and created another format war.
vinny @ Oct 11th 2007 12:30PM
@Kyrra, HD-DVD was already set to be the next format after DVD, unil that is sony decided to introduce Blu-Ray, hence fucking EVERYONE over
Boss Tempo @ Oct 11th 2007 12:53PM
Vinny's right, plus you have to listen to industry. HD DVD can be stamped using existing production facilities. Blu requires a whole new production process to produce the same product. The Blu's do hold more data, but the capacity is inflated because Sony's proprietary encryption process takes up enormous amounts of space. As far as I'm concerned, Sony can continue sucking and HD FTW!
Raikage (NDF - PK THUNDER RING) @ Oct 11th 2007 1:21PM
It's like a train wreck, I can't look away!
Also, they deserve it, just like Nintendo deserved it... well more...
vinny @ Oct 11th 2007 3:34PM
"The HD video format war is heating up once again, as Toshiba reports that HD DVD player sales have pulled ahead of Blu-ray as of mid-September."
holy shit, i may get my wish after all, go HD-DVD!
Joshua W @ Oct 11th 2007 10:23AM
Oh, please. This is the same guy that wanted 1 million dollars to port existing Valve games over to the Mac the platform. When Apple refused, he bashed Apple as not being developer friendly. All this amounts to is Valve wants to create one master game and port it to the XBOX 360, PS3 and PC instead of developing for each specific platform. Sorry, but that's not how you get great games, and that's not what Nintendo, Sony or even Microsoft want developers to do. If you don't want to develop for a specific platform fine, then don't. But constant bitching about how your game company has to optimize for this or that console platform is ridiculous.
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:28AM
the apples aren't known for games. he didn't want his company to use a bunch of time/money trying to port hl2 to macs and then have it not sell. they wanted a little security blanket. what's wrong with that? that's business
borland502 (SDF - Macross Ring) @ Oct 11th 2007 10:53AM
Heh, he's like Jaffe. He's talented, knows it, and will mouth off to anyone and everyone. Sony's console architecture has always been difficult to learn, it's just that this generation they can afford it less.
Still, if the PS3 ends up being the gamecube of this generation, they can probably use the cell in the PS4. Thus, they will be the first console (I think) to just upgrade the processor and not replace it between generations.