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Reader Comments (13)

Posted: Oct 16th 2007 9:05PM (Unverified) said

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I remember reading an article in... I think it was PC Gamer... I think... talking about the most Mature Video games ever. It had Lara Croft topless on the cover with Duke Nukem covering her breasts in her hand. In the magazine it brought up Conker's Bad Fur Day. I was a complete Nintendo fan, but during that time I had completely written off Nintendo during the Nintendo 64 era because they lost so many companies who made great games for them in the past. When I read about Conker it said "Made by Nintendo" talked about all the naughty things Conker did and I had to call my friend and ask him if he'd heard about this.

We rented the game and I borrowed my girlfriends N64 to play this game, and had a blast. I knew then that Nintendo was trying to completely wipe away the Kids Only reputation. Years later I still feel I am correct when I see Resident Evil 4 and the entire series on Gamecube, Manhunt 2, Dementium, That witch touching game... and that bikini wearing zombie hacking chick in Japan. And that's just the game titles that make headlines and turn heads in violence.

Not to mention, more are coming down the pike, with the recent announcement of Fatal Frame. The Wii is starting to get more of the mainstream titles, with mumblings that other developers to look at them. Even people like Rockstar with Manhunt 2, may concider some port of GTA in the future depending on how Manhunt 2 sells. Now if we can get games like Silent Hill, the Wii will have the main three survival horror games, other two being Resident Evil and Fatal Frame. Hopefully Konami is listening.

Posted: Oct 16th 2007 9:29PM BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam said

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Nintendo's never been a stranger to mature games on their consoles. Although the first Mortal Kombat on Super NES was completely censored, the poor sales of that showed them they shouldn't be so adverse to the gore-loving crowd. MKII and many other games beyond that have been free from Nintendo's former censorship policies.

There have been many M-rated games on N64 and GameCube. I'm not going to bother listing them, though.
There are a few on Wii (Godfather, Scarface, RE4), but the system is still young.

I think the thing that holds up this image of "zomg nintendo is teh kiddie" is how Nintendo themselves do not make extremely graphic games. It is all third-party efforts.
Even Rare's mature games (Perfect Dark and Conker's BFD) were self-published. Nintendo did NOT publish them.
Which makes, as far as I can tell, the only Nintendo-published M-rated games Eternal Darkness (by Silicon Knights) and Geist (by n-Space). Only one of which had favorable reviews.

However, the other problem is how people perceive games based on their visuals. While Nintendo makes games that are appropriate for anyone to play, people relate this to the games being childish. If anything, games like Zelda are more mature than any gorefest.

Blood, boobs, and bad words do not make you mature. Maturity comes from knowledge of what's appropriate and what is the right choice to do.
Unlike the rest of the series, Twilight Princess was rated T. This is due to the darker story and presentation of the game. It was fitting, though.

... And, I've lost my train of thought.

Posted: Oct 16th 2007 9:32PM (Unverified) said

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Don't forget No More Heroes.

Posted: Oct 16th 2007 11:36PM Bluebrake said

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For genuinely mature gamers, "mature" doesn't mean boobs and violence. It means things like complexity, character development, and thematic depth in storytelling. The fact is that these are things Nintendo *doesn't* deliver. Super Paper Mario's script is hilarious, but it's shallow as can be. Like a fluff comedy, I won't remember a single line or plot event 6 months after playing it. The plotlines of Nintendo games are limited to kid-friendly subjects and issues, and so they can't help but be boring. There are only so many ways the hero can save the princess, and they've all been played out. Nintendo's defining icons -- Mario, Link, etc. -- are about as deep as Mr. Clean. They're flawless, mute (well, Mario has a few canned phrases) vacant shells of characters with no potential for growth or player identification. Mario will never overcome a personal flaw, and Link will never wrestle with guilt or a moral dilemma. They'll just save the princess, like always, because that's what they do. (I'm guessing Samus fits into a similar mold, but I've never played the Metroid games).

On the visual side of things, the criticisms of Nintendo also hold true. Cartoon is a valid art style, and I have nothing against it. But where children and adults differ is that kids are *only* interested in the cartoon style, while adults crave more. However talented the artists are, using *only* bright, single-shade colors for every single image gets old fast. There are simply things you can't do with such a basic art style. There are no memorable landscapes in these games, there is nothing that strikes a person as beautiful. There is no art. And that's a major limitation.

(I know that a couple franchises, like Zelda and Metroid, sometimes go with a more realistic approach. But even these don't have imagery that compares to anything from a "mature" developer. They're still limited to brightly lit areas and primary colors. There's beauty in the dull and grimy too, you know).

It's not just the cartoony look that bothers me, though. It's that every game feels a need to go "cutesy" when it's on a Nintendo platform. The transition from The Sims to MySims and Final Fantasy to Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles are the archetypal examples. Sometimes it causes ridiculous clashes. The recent batch of Batallion Wars screens, for instance, features a shot with a large number of war machines coming towards the screen, and the giant smiling face of what could be Sergeant Barbie in the sky behind them. What audience, exactly, is being targeted here? What does this game gain from the cutesy art style? Nothing except to pass itself off as kid-friendly. This, I would argue, is a real example of how Nintendo platforms consciously alienate adult audiences.

In summary: Nintendo has a kiddie image because it *is* kiddie. "Family friendly" means limiting the visual and intellectual palette a project has available to it. This is a fact. There is no mass delusion among consumers: Nintendo has restricted itself to children and to "the child within" adults. There's nothing wrong with enjoying these games -- they can be very good! -- but you can't blame adult gamers for wanting more after a while.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 12:16AM (Unverified) said

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Well, first off, this is just being a little nitpicky on my part, but Samus does not fit into a similar mold. The game is not all bright in both senses of the word. In one, there are plenty of places where it jsut dark and creepy. I remember one part in Prime, where your just trapped in the research facility, and it's dark, and you can't see jack because you don't have even the X-Ray visor. On the other side, her entire race was destroyed. While it may not have had story in the traditional sense of a lot of cutscenes, the story is shown through scanning and then reading. Take Metroid Prime 1, for example. In the course of scanning the pirates computers and such, you start to see how they started mining phazon, and how they applied it, and what went wrong while infusing pirates with this substance. Then we see the effects of that. Again, just being nitpicky, nothing personal.

I do think the perception of the console is starting to change, what with Manhunt 2. But, that's the reason I don't play games like that. My roommate, right now, is playing GTA, and every other word is the f-bomb. That's his definition of mature though. If it doesn't have cursing, blood and gore in it, he instantly labels it garbage and there's no changing his mind. Strong sexual themes, cursing, and gore are not being "mature" it's just being immature in my opinion. I don't usually enjoy rap, simply because of all the cursing. I found the rap in Need for Speed Carbon bearable due to the lack of that kind of speech.

On a tanget, I for one, cannot figure out why Halo 3 is rated M. Just from a little bit of Multiplayer experience, their suits jsut flash when they get hit. It's tamer than Goldeneye in that respect.

So, while most of their games, are not labeled mature becuase of that lack of gore or cursing, that doesn't mean that games have to have that to be deep. Take Tetris for example. There are so many deep things one can do with that game, and yet it can be labeled as casual. Games are only as deep as one wants them.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 12:19AM (Unverified) said

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your-> you're
I hate it when I do that.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 1:25AM (Unverified) said

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I just want to bring up Kingdom Hearts, and even though it had completely kiddish characters and levels, the story was much deeper, to the point where a MATURE adult could play it.

Mario... it's just some flat fun that one would want after a hard day to wind down - but that's it. 30 minutes of repetitive fun and setting it down.

@Chris Putnam: very nice post, I agree completely.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 9:51AM ShinAntonio said

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Chris Putnam put it very well.

Another clear example is the Mii creation tool. Miis are blatantly cutesy with overly large heads, bland clothing, and no hands. If I were a game designer I wouldn't even incorporate Miis into my games because they're so damn bland and cartoony. Why not offer more proportioned avatars?

Chris makes a great point about character development and storyline. Linebeck is a really boring and predictable part of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Oh he's a coward and he's greedy. *yawn* Sounds like something fit for a Saturday morning cartoon. Ciela's verbal sparring with him is equally dull and predictable. The game is a ton of fun, but the characters involved just ain't cutting it. Metroid Prime 3's bounty hunters also were one-dimensional.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 10:29AM (Unverified) said

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I tend to agree with the author on this subject. Dark and gritty do not a mature game make. Trauma Center is one of the MOST mature games available for Wii. Cooking Mama...not so much (fun but not what I would call mature).

Mature and cartoony are not mutually exclusive...they can co-exist (see most Japanese anime)...but I think that Nintendo does not want that particular image for themselves...that is what the 3rd parties should use as their angle to sell their wares.

So is Disney only for 'teh kiddiez'? They have different divisions that make some very mature and graphic movies. But I don't see anyone really complaining about that.

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 3:55PM Slaziman said

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Looks like it's essay day today

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 4:38PM Mr Khan said

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Well, i won't argue with Mario being a deliberately shallow character, but Link and Samus aren't necessarily. Both of them being "silent protagonists," their silences speak louder than words. You, as the player, are meant to interpret the character's environments. However the game makes you feel is how Samus and/or Link are supposed to feel, which is the whole point of them being silent protagonists

Yes, the characters around them are somewhat one-dimensional, but that is again about building upon your reactions to them, and not necessarily the other way around

But the silent protagonist is a dying art, and ill-understood in these days

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 8:41PM manyquestions said

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While I agree with the general point of these article whole-heartedly, I can't help but say it was written with some misconceptions and unfortunate wordings.

Well, Chris, I get what you're saying but I can't bring myself to agree fully. In games, how often do we really get full character development? I know ther are plenty of titles that do so but when you look at percentages of the whole, it's not as common as in other media because a game isn't even required to have story, much less a fantasic one, for it to be fun or "mature"(which definately goes in quotations). Zelda and Metroid may not have particularly complex character development (even though the back story of Metroid is AMAZING and beautifully deep) but that doesn't mean that they're any less "mature". Real gamers all over the world appreciate Metroid and Zelda (and Mario and others but that's besides the point) and they'll certainly outlast Halo and Killzone (seriously, what kind of poser, stereotypical name is that?) and the like.

Bright colors mean nothing. Please don't take that too literally, obviously it's a problem to color a serious FPS with a Mario pallete and vice-versa. What I mean is that in normal circumstances, it has almost no effect on the memorability of the game or its ability to appeal to a "mature" audience. It's only a put-off to the "HALO teh roxxorz!" crowd which I think we can all agree we don't want polluting our lovely console.

My opinion is somewhat of a combination of Chris', Neal's, and Khan's points.

Yes, Slazi, is is essay day. :)

Happy hunting,
FX-1

Posted: Oct 17th 2007 8:58PM Mike Sylvester said

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Don't worry folks, more mods, scripts, and how-tos are on the way, but recent interpersonal discussions made me want to bring up this topic on a more public forum. I'm glad to read such well-crafted responses here, and I hope you guys are sharing your views with your friends and associates who aren't up to speed on the breadth of game types that Nintendo systems have to offer.

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