Tretton financial math: New PS3 + PS2

Tretton financial math: New PS3 + PS2 < Old PS3

by Alexander Sliwinski { Oct 18th 2007 at 12:53PM }

In an interview with Newsweek, Sony America CEO Jack Tretton explains why the 40GB PS3's lack of backwards compatibility with such simple math, it's hard to argue. Tretton breaks down the math all fancy like and makes intelligible that which we've been missing this whole time. The old 60GB PS3 with full BC was $600. The new 40GB PS3 with no PS2 BC is $400. By adding the cost of a PS2 at $129, the total for the two consoles is $529 ($70 less than the original 60GB price). Tretton says, "I've got two machines that do everything the same machine did a year ago at $599. So it's hard for me to see that as a negative for the consumer." That may be some fantastic spin, but at least it's not a lie. Of course, the math would be easier to swallow if the 60GB wasn't really $500, and if said consumer hadn't come to depend on the PS3's upscaling of old games.

Tretton goes on to avoid answering any questions regarding the 80GB PS3 model (now dropping to $500) and its chances of getting roped into the same clearance sale the 60GB model was. He goes on to say that the framerate issues in Madden 08 were simply due to the system's newer technology -- the same complaints heard from developers on every PlayStation system so far. Tretton concludes that "at the end of the day, the developers got up to speed, the consoles enjoyed an extremely successful long ten-year road map." With any luck, the 40GB PS3 will finally reveal the road map Sony needs for the PS3's next ten years.

Tags: 40GBps3, 80GBps3, ps3

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)

blooh (CDF - Nipple Ring) @ Oct 18th 2007 12:59PM

yeah just duct tape that ps2 to your new 40gb ps3

you lose upscaling and consolidation of your consoles, but so what, you made sony happy

also, in before flamewar and 150+ posts

why not the LS2LS7? @ Oct 18th 2007 1:28PM

So buy the 80GB model.

Done. It's like bitching that a 360 core + HDD + component cable costs more than a regular 360. Yeah, it does, so if you want all those features together, buy the other model.

Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Oct 18th 2007 1:37PM

Yeah but noone wants to pay more for a feature that should have been included.

Ten Dolla Bill @ Oct 18th 2007 1:44PM

@ Vegeta

Like backwards compatibility?

samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 18th 2007 1:54PM

"so if you want all those features together, buy the other model."

And in about 2 months when Sony phases out BC completely, what will you say?
Get in your time machine and buy one with BC in the past?

Vidikron (FU) @ Oct 18th 2007 2:17PM

@Samfish

What did you do with the Cube and its lack of BC? Look, it's real simple, if you want PS2 BC then you need to buy one of the existing BC models before they are gone. If you wait and Sony removes them BC from all the models then tough shit. If it was that important to you then you should have bought earlier. Since you all seem so convinced that BC will be gones from all the SKUs eventually you can't argue that you didn't see it coming. At that point you'll have to hit used market. But all that's assuming Sony even removes BC from all the models... and even if they do, there will be BC units avilable for a while. The 60 GB unit is still avilable around here despite being out of profuction for a while.

why not the LS2LS7? @ Oct 18th 2007 2:56PM

Samfish:
Me personally? As I said below, the BC doesn't work for me anyway because I want to play GH and GH2. I have the "100%" BC 60GB and the BC isn't doing what I need to do, so I use my PS2. So no, won't need a time machine.

As to what other people will do, I expect a year from now they'll be playing PS3 games, not PS2 ones.

Anticrawl @ Oct 18th 2007 3:03PM

I'm pretty sure the point being made is that Sony said full PS2/PS1 backwards compatibility was a sure thing. They promised something to the consumer and are taking it away. I dunno but Microsoft never promised full backwards compatibility for all xbox games and I'm damn sure Nintendo didn't with the Gamecube.

Vidikron (FU) @ Oct 18th 2007 3:15PM

@anticrawl

And the point I'm making is that there are still SKUs with BC available. No one knows for sure if they will be removing it from all SKUs eventually or not. But if you honestly feel that the writing on the wall and PS2 BC will eventually be gone completely then you should buy while they are still available. The point I'm also making is that people try to make it out like removing some of the BC from the PS3 is the worst thing ever while they have been perfectly happy with systems with no BC for decades. Fine, so Sony said their "brand philosphy" was to provide full BC. Well, it's basically there right now. If this represents a change in their "philosphy" then you need to decide now how important BC really is to you if you really intend to buy a PS3. IMO though, most of the whiners are the fanboys who don't care about the PS3 either way. And, seriously, if you people really buy these "corporate philosophies" for any of the big companies you're in for a rude awakening in the real world.

Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Oct 18th 2007 4:33PM

No vid, there is currently no PS3 sku in production with FULL PS2 BC.

WedgeTalon @ Oct 18th 2007 11:19PM

Vidikron: "What did you do with the Cube and its lack of BC?"

See, I've never particularly NEEDED BC with Nintendo. Every single original Nintendo console I ever bought still works. I've never had to replace one. And now I swear that I'm almost on my THIRD PS2. It's ridiculous.

mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 18th 2007 12:59PM

So now consumers are not only supposed to buy the biggest of the three consoles this gen but also buy another one to put beside it to make up for a feature that has been removed.

Are people supposed to duct tape them together, too?

Konny @ Oct 18th 2007 1:00PM

The same match can be applied to 360:

CORE: $280
HDD: $180
WiFi: $100
HD-DVD: $180
-----------------
$740 .. and you get a 80gb PS3 equiv.

mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 18th 2007 1:03PM

Congratulations, the 360 sucks too. Way to bring everything down with you.

mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 18th 2007 1:05PM

Congratulations, the 360 sucks too. Way to bring everything down with you.

blooh (CDF - Nipple Ring) @ Oct 18th 2007 1:06PM

yeah but only idiots want all that

NATO_Duke @ Oct 18th 2007 1:09PM

What?

CORE: $280 - Why this model?
HDD: $180 - Who needs this? There is a smaller model.
WiFi: $100 - Wireless not needed.
HD-DVD: $180 - Has nothing to do with gaming.
-----------------
$740 .. and you get a 80gb PS3 equiv. - You say! Those aren't the same options. HD-DVD not needed top play XBox games like BluRay is for the PS3, and 120 gig hard drive is a tad larger than 80. Oh yeah, the 360 also has BC of a great deal of titles.

You have blown the numbers up here and you damn well know it.

This is a spin by Sony that comes off as damn lame. Buy the PS2 now? WTF? People shouldn't need to go buy a 2nd console.

DWells55 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:11PM

Some of us like having options. For example:
- I don't like wireless connections for gaming. I hardwire anything I can whenever possible. I don't want or need a wireless adapter, and I don't want built into the price.
- I don't need a high definition video disc player. I don't watch many movies and when I do I just want to grab something from the local Blockbuster. I don't need a HD disc reader built into the price of my system. If I really want an HD movie, I'll rent it digitally through the 360 Marketplace.
- I don't need 80GBs of storage. I have a 20GB hard drive which fits every game save I could ever make along with a ton of downloadable content and demos. I'd rather not be forced to pay for extra space I won't use.

The Xbox 360 Premium is $350 and includes HDMI support, a headset, wireless controller, and high definition component cables right out of the box. Oh, and it has a lot of games worth playing.

Badboy1979 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:22PM

THE BOTTOM LINE (from a gaming prespective):

Xbox 360/no BC: $279
PS3/no BC: $399

Xbox 360/BC: $349
PS3/BC: $499

I think the price drop and cheaper model are a great step in the right direction for Sony.

This is joystiq and not engadget, Bluray is nice and all but I think the Wii and 360 have both proven it's not necessary for FUN... which I thought was the whole idea of a video GAMING console.

You can throw in the fact that the 360 doesn't have a high definition player... but what's stopping me from throwing in the fact that the PS3 isn't a media center extender (what's the going price on those now, like $100+). Let's kust stick to gaming purposes.

Badboy1979 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:27PM

... oops, minor correction, PS3/no prev gen BC: $399

Synner @ Oct 18th 2007 1:27PM

Then you better add: 2nd controller, memory card, dvd remote, and you are a jackass to your PS3 math.

MakAttack @ Oct 18th 2007 1:29PM

The only problem with your equation is that folks like me wouldn't need WiFi nor HD-DVD, so it's much cheaper to go with the 360 with builtin HDD.

Negativecool @ Oct 18th 2007 1:46PM

DWells-
First off I love it when people that have no interest in the PS3 start spouting the word "forced." If Sony forced you to buy the "blu ray player" in the PS3, you'd already have the PS3 because you were forced to buy it.
Generally if you actually WANT to purchase a PS3, you don't feel "forced" to buy anything. You most likely feel excited that you're getting all of that hardware for the price. Which leads me to my next thought about people like you.

Arguments of "choice" are all good and fine when you finally take the plunge and buy either...It all depends on your preferences. You won't buy a PS3 if you don't want blu ray, thus avoiding your whole "forced" issue. But if you take off your fanboy hat for a second, and step back and crunch the numbers-- you'll see you get more HARDWARE for your money with the PS3.

I take Konny's post (although probably fanboy fueled) as just a simple hardware per dollar comparison. It is just a simple "Here's the hardware you get with the PS3, and here's what you get with the 360" comparison. There is NO doubt you get more hardware capability/dollar with the PS3.
I take it as more of a contructive criticism towards the 360's pricing.

The1 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:50PM

You know you are doing voodoo math. right? The issue is that Sony promised all this and now they are taking it away. I am glad I have an original PS3 from launch. Freak this other crap.

Synner @ Oct 18th 2007 1:54PM

@negative cool:

You may be getting more hardware for your money, but not very many good games to use it on, so I would argue that if I had a car capable of flying, but it used a fuel I could not obtain, where you may have a car that drives you to work every day on regular gasoline, who wasted their money?

NATO_Duke @ Oct 18th 2007 1:54PM

Negativecool - though you use a calm tone, you calling his comparison of the 360 and PS3 as "just a simple hardware per dollar comparison" shows you have quite the leaning on this issue. Those are not direct comparisons.

Also, I just want to note that I have used my PS3 to watch a total of 3 BluRays - I bought it for games...and since those are lacking, I don't try to mask the problems by saying I got a cheap BluRay player, when I could care less to have one.

Evan @ Oct 18th 2007 2:11PM

Don't forget to add the remote control to the PS3's price, if you want to watch movies without looking like a dork. The PS3 won't work with universal remote controls, but the 360 does.

Badboy1979 @ Oct 18th 2007 2:12PM

Negativecool, the thing about Konny's comparison, is that it's not correct.

The 120 GB 360 HD for $180 is not the same as the 80GB PS3 drive you'd have.

Buying the HD DVD player would give you two drives... and seeing as we ALL know how much gamers don't like to get up and change discs (/sarcasm), that would be considered a benefit since you don't have to get up and change from game discs to movie discs.

The Blu-ray drive/HD DVD argument is throwed in for comparison but yet the fact that the 360 is a media center extender (100+)would then warrant the inclusion of that price added to the 80GB PS3.

The upcoming Cores will have a memory card included so you'd also need to tack on that price to the 80GB PS3.

Also, you could even argue that you don't have to use the 360 branded wifi adapter either and get one way cheaper than $100.

For gaming, I just stick to the fact that one is $279/$349 and the other is soon to be $399/$499.

FidliousWong @ Oct 18th 2007 2:29PM

God, I hate the fact that I'm having to respond to a Konny message of all things.

@Konny, those are ridiculously inflated comparisons. Going with the core and ADDING and HDD? And unlike PS3, Xbox 360 limits what you and the developers can do with that space so having over 20GBs being not enough just means someone hates going through menus and deleting demos. In other words, a 60GB on a PS3 makes sense in the long term. A 20GB is more than adequate for most on 360.

@Dwells

About the wireless, I take it you bitch about Nintendo DS, Wii, and PSP for including wireless in the price? No? Yeah, didn't think so. Wireless is cheap to add and I find it hilarious that all these cheapo WiFi connectors can manage to find strong signals on my router whereas the premium $100 adapter for 360 can rarely find the router and make it positively unusable even at less than 10 feet away. In fact, just to take my 360 online despite the premium I spent on that dongle trash, I had to completely rewire my network and in a complete act of ignorant design to accomidate shitty hardware, my router now sits in my entertainment center, far away from my render farm. That's just so special.

I can see about the HD content issue being a valid point except for a couple things. The first being that games are NOW chopping content to fit on 360. The second being the fact that I'm sure you NEVER bitched when your TurboDuo could play an audio CD. If the hardware supports the format, why shouldn't the software? To me, BluRay was a bonus.

@Synner, Nato_Duke,

I keep hearing how PS3 doesn't have games. I find this very unusual considering when my 360 is in the repair center for the umpteenth time, I'm playing these nonexistant games on PS3. In fact, because of my constant fear of RRoD, I've weened myself off the 360 as much as possible. Nothing burns like a RRoD three days before Halo 3. And PS3 does have games. Some are damn good too. And multiplat games are pretty good as well. I mean, your complaint that there are no good games is simply not valid. They may not represent your play preferences but it has more than a couple.

NATO_Duke @ Oct 18th 2007 2:48PM

FidliousWong - Yes, I say it doesn't have great games right now. I have a library of some 60 games for my 360, and about 6 for my PS3. They just have not released much to be excited over.

Nice of you to argue about yours being broken, but the 360 at my place is healthy and has yet to break - so that argument is just as person specific as mine about the lack of games. Its our own experience that dictates right? I told you mine, and you argued yours. One person's experience does not erase the others.

Its great that you think there are so many great games for the PS3 - I disagree. I have hope there will be, but I don't see them out as of yet. I keep hoping that someday there will be great titles like the PS2 had, but right now, MS is releasing the more interesting titles.

Negativecool @ Oct 18th 2007 4:24PM

Dwells-

How is it not a direct comparison?
How are those prices inflated?
Do you really want to use the 20GB HDD in this "indirect" comparison--a drive 5x smaller in capacity but only $80 cheaper than the 120 GB HDD? Which SKU did you prefer? The core, premium, elite...how bout the Halo 3 model, or the new Arcade SKU.....that's right I said SKU dammit.

Badboy-
Again with the HD DVD drive doesn't play games. No! Really? That isn't the point. The PS3 has a HD drive available upon purchase, regardless of other functionality, on the 360, it is EXTRA and combining everything together-- more expensive than a PS3. Jesus you're making me sound like I'm getting paid!

Everyone else-
Bringing the 360 to comparable hardware functionality with the PS3 will make it cost more than the PS3. HARDWARE wise.
And NO, the PS3 doesn't have games, but that isn't the point either.

Badboy1979 @ Oct 18th 2007 4:41PM

Negativecool, the point is if you're doing an EQUAL comparison... then by adding the HD-DVD player to the 360 you'd have TWO drives... so you'd have to account for the cost of an extra DVD drive (maybe $15/20) in the PS3 price.

AND like I said, if you going to throw in features that you DON'T NEED for gaming on the 360 (ex. the HD-DVD), you can also and in the cost of a MEDIA CENTER EXTENDER to the PS3 price

Konny @ Oct 18th 2007 10:05PM

I feel like a jack ass now

Questworld @ Oct 19th 2007 12:27AM

People keep playing this price game as if that's suppose to soften anything. Core 360 doesn't have BC so that makes it okay? Look, if the core 360 can get BC simply by adding a hard drive (sold separately), is there a possibility that I can make a "core" PS3 backwards compatible by adding something too? Because unless purely software emulation is indeed going to happen, BC in the PS3 is starting to become an uncertainty for those who wanted to wait for lower prices and better games (and please don't give me the "just do it" attitude as if everything is "as simple as that" because people would've robbed you already by now). People are simply afraid that BC is going to go away in the future and progress in attaining a system with one is being hindered by price. If Sony simply made two SKUs, one being the 40G and the other 60G (with full hardware BC), then people would be less agitated by all these happenings.

why not the LS2LS7? @ Oct 18th 2007 1:00PM

I don't think the math is that odd, given that no PS3 runs Guitar Hero properly anyway (no guitars).

Why would I want to pay $100 more for BC that doesn't even run the one game I want to play?

I also find the upscaling rather unexciting. I run GoW2 in 480p (where the upscaling is turned off) rather than in 480i with the upscaling. Maybe GoW2 is the wrong game to judge it by though since it already looks very good for a PS2 games.

I still have my PS2 in my gaming stack because of GH.

Boss Tempo @ Oct 18th 2007 1:35PM

Oh upscaling is extremely exciting, especially when you know what the hell it means. If you're saying you upscale to 480 anything, you definately don't understand what upscaling is.

upz @ Oct 18th 2007 3:01PM

Actually, Tempo, it seems that you can't read.

GoW2 runs in either 480i, which the PS3 upscales up to 1080p, or 480p, which the PS3 allows to run natively. LS2 made this clear in his post. If you or the 'stiqers that voted you up knew anything about logical thought progression or proper sentence structure, you would've realized this.

why not the LS2LS7? @ Oct 18th 2007 3:02PM

You just have no clue. I was referring to how the PS3 will upscale 480i mode games, but if you switch the games to 480p, the upscaling turns off. Now go back and read my post again and understand it.

By the way, yesterday I had the CEO of Anchor Bay (DVDO) demoing their upscaling equipment to me. So yeah, I know nothing about upscaling.

Mogul218 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:01PM

You spin me round round baby right round like a record baby!

Cyro @ Oct 18th 2007 1:06PM

Hahaha, You made me remember that song.

I guess Sony is out-smarting all their fans now.
What a load of crap....

Mogul218 @ Oct 18th 2007 1:09PM

I just had to bust it out on iTunes myself!

sg @ Oct 18th 2007 1:06PM

They are just full of shit.

All PS3s should be fully BC.

No one is running this company, they are all just running round like headless chickens.
One minute they are saying one thing and then just making liars of themselves.
Bring back Crazy Ken- all is forgiven.

Negativecool @ Oct 18th 2007 6:23PM

I'm actually very please by the simplicity of your post. No one can argue a word of it. Kudos.

Lex @ Oct 18th 2007 1:08PM

I hope they keep that 80g version around. Seeing as that would mean only two version of the PS3 would be available for retailers it would give us some choice in what we want for entertain centers. Not everyone wants multiple boxes to do something that can be done with one.