Rumor: BioWare's mystery MMO based on KOTOR

by Ludwig Kietzmann { Oct 22nd 2007 at 9:00PM }

That's the 2003 role-playing game and not the town in Montenegro, mind you. While an MMO based on the beautiful coastal establishment of Kotor would indeed be a unique and thoroughly refreshing prospect, we don't fancy its chances against World of Warcraft. The Star Wars brand and universe, however, might fare better -- as long as it's not Galaxies. Instead, it'll be Knights of the Old Republic, according to Primotech.

Citing a "source close to BioWare," Alex Petraglia reports that BioWare's mystery MMO -- due in 2009 and reliant on Streambase technology -- will be set in the universe established by the critically acclaimed Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series of role-playing games. The first was developed by BioWare, while the second arrived courtesy of Obsidian Entertainment. The first title especially was hailed for its engaging plot, substantial characterization and general hostility towards organic meatbags. In other words, an exemplary single-player experience.

An important question then (besides "Is this for real?"), is "How do you translate that to an MMO?" The cynical answer, of course, is "You don't. You make World of Warcraft with lightsabers." More questions are raised when considering EA's recent acquisition of BioWare -- would that not create some publishing intricacies for a game only expected in 2009? The central group in such a deal would be LucasArts, but alas, "LucasArts doesn't comment on rumors or speculation." Oh, but you can, dear reader.

Tags: BioWare, KOTOR, LucasArts, Star-Wars, StarWars

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Zon @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:09PM

I sure hope so.

Shawn @ Oct 23rd 2007 1:22AM

Oh I do too..If anyone can pull off a decent Star Wars themed MMO, it's Bioware.

Magnus-ATLUS Defense Force @ Oct 24th 2007 12:58AM

As much as I would love to see this happen.....

I would rather they just simply make a KOTOR 3 single player game and not turn it into MMO due to the associated risks that come with it. I don't question Bioware's skill, I question the skill of everyone else who would be involved in a massive project like this.

Vainglory @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:14PM

Oh hell *yes.* If anything could pry another $15 a month out of my wallet, it would be WoW with lightsabers.

Jake11 @ Oct 23rd 2007 1:48AM

i think we should all give a big thanks to baby jesus for this.

guano @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:15PM

We've heard this rumor before. So without any actual evidence or official confirmation, it's still just that.

Vainglory @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:22PM

Stop making sense, you fool! Let me have my dreams.

gonk @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:16PM

a star wars mmo that doesn't suck? if anyone can do it, bioware can

oh, this was called like a year ago:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/29

Platy @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:24PM

thinking that way ...

bioware is making a mmo ....... and bioware is making an rpglike game of the SONIC franchise !!!!! =O

so it is TOTALY OBVIOUS that bioware is actualy making .... A SMASH BROS MMORPG !!! xD

Arkon @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:17PM

What about Kotor 3?

gonk @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:24PM

maybe this will be it? I dunno. But man, I want more kotor either singleplayer or mmo, it's a day 1 purchase. #2's combat was great (though lightning storm and force crush became super overpowered at the end) but the story sucked balls, and the level design wasn't very good either. Hopefully bioware can combine the best elements of both kotors for the new one

Synner @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:25PM

You can thank obsidian for that, their best skill seems to be taking someone else's awesome IP and watering it down and running it into the ground. KOTOR 2, NWN 2. They'll probably pick up jade empire and make a monkey fuck out of that next.

Galaxies was cool until all the whiny bitches wanted to be master jedi right out of the gate.

t_m @ Oct 23rd 2007 9:08AM

after the trash that was KoToR2 i've lost all my enthusiasm. I guess if it was made by bioware it'd be good again, right?

Jason @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:35PM

I just hope it can move beyond the level grinding. That is the absolute worst part of MMORPGs. Other things that are bad about WoW are poor story, boring quests, and overall boring environments. It's need to focus much more on PVP or RVR.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:38PM

Of cause, if it's based on Kotor, the battle system is immediately placed in speculation. IMHO, the easiest way to differenciate this from WoW (and it's push button repetitively) gameplay, is to make the battle system turn-based, or the non-real-time battle option for the Kotor games.

gonk @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:50PM

a turn-based mmo? doesn't sound like it would work too well, people would just do a really powerful move each turn

but there are lots of possibilities here, speeder rides to get around planets, starships for rent/buying for space travel (not sure if you'd want space combat or not...it would add a lot of technicalities and pirating would be pretty rampant). But at least it's the same guy that headed kotor, I'm very optimistic :)

Psaakyrn @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:30PM

Actually, it does work well, though you'd be hard-pressed to find examples. I only know of 2 turn-based MMOs: one of them is a Korean MMO based on Dynasties of the 3 Kingdoms, and which I can't remember the name, and the other one's ToonTown Online, a Disney based MMO. Added benefit: battles won't be hindered (as much) by lag in a turn-based environment.

And it's not like people don't spam their powerful moves in WoW anyway.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:31PM

t_m @ Oct 23rd 2007 9:10AM

i think quite a few MMOs work on a faked turn based system like KoTOR, don't they?

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 11:04AM

It's true most MMOs follow a simulated turn-based system, but the turn-based system has very little similarity to KotOR's system. The reason MMO's follow such system is because of multiple reasons, ranging from bandwidth to processing power required to synch everything. WoW, for example, uses 0.1 second ticks: you can't have actions falling between ticks, but you can have simultaneous actions falling on the exact same tick. Other than that, what the player experience is completely real-time: unless you go into precise mathematics, people don't see their spell cooldown increase by 2 ticks, they see their cooldowns increase by 0.2 seconds.

KotOR's system however, is inherently turn based: all action goes through a preset turn order taking all units into consideration, and nothing in the battle, save for movement, can disrupt that order. (movement is the only aspect of the battle which is in real time) Haste effects, for example, increases the nimber of attacks players make in a turn, instead of making them space out their attacks in closer intervals.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 11:21AM

Ack, I forgot about another example, which might be more interesting. Dofus Online, turn-based strategic combat (similar to FF tactics, except each player controls one character only).

Psaakyrn @ Oct 22nd 2007 9:40PM

Incidently, I hope assassin droids will be a playable character type. Organic meatbags are overrated in my opinion.

marcandrer @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:05PM

make KOTOR3 not another Star Wars MMO

Michael @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:11PM

A star wars KOTOR mmo that isnt a pile of dogshit made by SOE?

Three words:

FUCK

YES

SON

Jeff @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:12PM

If they made it an MMO, while remaining true to the gameplay of the RPGS... wow.

Thomas @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:34PM

Oh sweet jebus don't let EA fuck this up!

Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:52PM

ummm what? I'm pretty sure Bioware is developing it. EA's job is only to put the game out there.

t_m @ Oct 23rd 2007 9:13AM

but wouldn't lucasarts publish a SW MMO?

t_m @ Oct 23rd 2007 9:14AM

but wouldn't lucasarts publish a Star Wars MMO?

Tricky Thumb @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:37PM

WoW and most MMOs are turn-based, so I don't see how the combat you see in the first two KOTOR games would have any trouble converting into an MMO.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:39PM

WoW is turn-based? I don't know where you get that idea, unless you consider a turn to be 0.1 seconds. (since the cool-down of spells are in those increments)

Tricky Thumb @ Oct 22nd 2007 10:53PM

Yes, even though it may seem like WoW is "real time" you're just seeing the results of what is basically die rolls and modifiers. Everything is based on stats and there is a back and forth of attacking and being attacked. It isn't very dissimilar to an RPG where you're taking turns.

gonk @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:58PM

uhh...what

random damage doesn't mean turn based

if you go afk in wow, you can be killed by 1 guy just spamming an attack, he doesn't have to wait for your turn

ColossalHat @ Oct 23rd 2007 1:12AM

It is indeed turn-based, however, the turns are easy to knock out of whack, what with different attack speeds on each attack and running screwing with everything. It's kinda like FFX-2's or FFXII's combat system (which both blew IMO) in the turn department, if you use the same move, you'll always go at the same time.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 5:51AM

FFX-2 and FFXII are both not turn based. The key component for turn-based is that events are all done in regular equal-sized intervals. (even if the intervals are 0.1 seconds and not all intervals are utilized, and if some moves takes up more than one interval)

FFX-2 is more similar to a delayed real-time system, where moves are performed in the order they're given, but wait for previous moves to be completed. Essentially, this also means that the moves play out differently if they lasted for different durations, or if time travelled at a different speed.

FFXII is a pure real-time battle system. Actions performed are on their own time-basis, and can't happen simultaneously.

A major difference between KotOR and the games you mentioned: in KotOR, excluding movement, all actions are taken in a strict back-and-forth manner, irregardless of your speed or skills used. Speed effects (like force speed or flurry) only makes you attack more and provide other stat changes, in your turn.

For more information, just look up the d20 battle system (which the KotOR battle system is based on), excluding everything mentioned on movement (the only real-time factor in KotOR).

How about a challenge. You try and define a real-time battle system.

Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Oct 23rd 2007 9:09AM

Psaakyrn, by your logic then FF4-9 are real time battles. Just because your opportunity to take an action comes up much more quickly in WoW, doesn't make it real time. If you sat on your turn long enough in FF4-9, the enemy would eventually get an attack. The same thing happens in WoW, only much faster.

So unless you're willing to call what we traditionally have called turn based combat Real Time, then you must accept that WoW is indeed turn based.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 10:55AM

Incidently, I do consider the active-time battle system to be real-time. And you'd be hard-pressed to find any definition of real-time which wouldn't include that. Again, I challenge you to come up with a definition of real time, or turn based.

Why would you consider the active-time battle system to be turn based anyway? A menu system doesn't make it any more or less turn based.

Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Oct 23rd 2007 11:38AM

Fair enough, but its generally accepted that those games are turn based, with a real time element. If you wanted to be really philisophical, you could boil all Real Time events down to a turn based system, especially when you're talking about a digital world (a processor can only work on 1 or 2 tasks simultaneously).

So when you boil it down, WoW is turn based, with each turn consisting of .1 seconds of available action time. Fast enought to seem real time, but still turn based at its root.

FF12 is definitely turn based, its just that the computer is taking the turns for you. I suppose its all a manner of perspective.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:10PM

And therein lies my point: In terms of player perspective, WoW is real time, KotOR is simulated real-time (with a turn based basis), or pure turn based, depending on which option you chose. In terma of programming, the higher level system may or may not be turn based (but generally so in the case of MMORPGs, which I elaborated elsewhere), but the lower level system is always turn based.

In the end though, it's still the player-percieved system that counts. WoW is generally considered real-time, though hard-core players would easily consider it simulated realtime on a 0.1 second tick turn-based system (since they need to be as efficient as possible). FFXIII is pure real-time, even with the AI controlling: AI control doesn't make it any more or less real-time. KotOR has the simulated real-time system mainly for action gamers, though most players would figure that it's turn based by the way it handles attacks. The other play-mode is a d20 turn-based system no matter how you cut it.

Also: ATB (as in FFX-2) is a delayed real-time system, which because of how it's implemented, allows for strange chronological action orders (because even if character A is ready first, so long as the move being performed isn't over, character B can act first with no obvious delay. This naturally isn't possible if the previous action is performed before any other characters are ready.)

Jonah Falcon @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:01PM

Unless LucasArts had a sudden and drastic change of heart regarding BioWare, you can forget it completely, ESPECIALLY if EA owns BioWare.

ogvor @ Oct 22nd 2007 11:23PM

If true , then it's awesome

If not, I'll still be waiting for a BioWare developed Kotor 3

And I have no reason to think BioWare will just simply make "World of Warcraft with Lightsabers" considering how they have been making their RPGs more and more action oriented, that would just be a step backwards.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:27AM

As I said, only if you consider a turn to be 0.1 seconds (which technically, is true, and that would technically mean that WoW is turn based). But in real-world terms, it's considered real-time because each action is applied on their own time-basis, in no chronological relation to all other actions (again, technically false, since all actions must fall within the 0.1 second tick).

The simplest example you can give to prove that WoW is turn based, is to see if instantaneous effects can happen at the same time. In a turn-based environment, yes, in a real-world environment, no.

The point is that, even through the game logic is turn based, the player experience is not.

(oh, and "back and forth" combat is not always true. Rogues can attack multiple times before my 2-H wielding paladin even manages a swing out.)

gonk @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:32AM

yeah, i never did like that 1 sec global cooldown in warcraft

i prefer cov's style, where each spell has its own cooldown, but you can chain a bunch together real fast if they're all ready

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:49AM

Technically false. Global cooldown doesn't apply to ALL abilities. Otherwise you can't get the trinket + Arcane power + Presence of mind + Pyroblast combo. (usually followed with a fireblast if that doesn't do the trick.)

David @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:33AM

I sorta want to know what happens to Revan. Oh god, now I want to play KotOR again. Even the not-as-good-as-the-original sequel. I wonder how the story will be done, as in will they continue it canon-wise, or keep the story open ended again.

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 12:58AM

You may as well give up. Practically all MMOs are open-ended one way or another. (the only exception are games based on finite stories, in which they then assume the ending never-has-and-never-will-be attained, and thus managing to keep it open-ended since you don't know if they'll follow the story ending.)

gonk @ Oct 23rd 2007 2:34AM

i'd love a mmo with branching storylines with finite endings. I always create alts so I can try each of the different builds anyway, so it'd be nice to use them to try different storylines

Psaakyrn @ Oct 23rd 2007 6:09AM

There's only 2 MMOs (and 2 MMO genres) I know of which has finite storylines.

1) Diablo 2: Granted this is debatable whether it's really an MMO, but I consider it so. (of cause, it uses "new game+" methology, in which storyline no longer plays a part)
2) Can't really remember the name, but it's about escaping an insane asylum. End-game is the actual escape, but being insane's probably more fun.

Genres:
1) PvP strategy/simulation. But only because the game goes in rounds, and at the end of the round, the group with the most points win. Technically more world than storyline based. Story is also artificially closed. In fact, the only real difference between this and games like TF2, is that a single round can last for months.
2) PvP Conquest based (e.g. Planetside). Theoretically possible for one faction to conquer everything, but practically not. Again, technically more world than storyline based.

Exception: Minigame based; Depends if you consider 100% no story to be an acceptable replacement for finite story.