If you're interested in seeing some of the ways Rockstar bypassed that sales-killing (sorry, bad pun) AO-rating to get Manhunt 2 on US retail shelves this week, Game Videos has created a short montage of footage contrasting specific scenes of violence found in Manhunt, Manhunt 2 retail, and the uncensored Manhunt 2 beta.
Two points are made from what we see in the video:
The original Manhunt can be just as gory at times as the uncut version Manhunt 2
The best way to lower your game's ESRB rating is to use crazy filter effects during acts of gratuitous violence
We'd really like to see this video expanded in the future to give a more complete visual comparison of the three versions. For a game poised to be the next hotbedof controversy, surely there's more than 90 seconds of violent similarities to be found amongst the titles.
it all looks pretty much the same. I dont see how they changed much. I mean, its all mature stuff. Making it a requirement to be 18 as apposed to 17 is pretty silly. I wouldnt let my kids play that (or any other M game)
They both look fairly similar to me. The camera in both versions sucks...Based entirely on this I'm not really sure why kills in the uncut version are supposed to be more "satisfying" but I could be wrong.
Well keep in mind, in order for The Punisher to get it's M rating, instead of the prelim AO the ESRB said, the interrogation sequences had to go to black and white. So I understand how this "minor" change (which hurts my eyes, actually) could be used to snag the M rating. It worked for Punisher, it worked for Manhunt.
Kill Bill Vol1 went black and white for that swordfight scene not because Tarantino wanted it that way. He did it to get an R rating. Other releases (like in Japan and Uncut version) have it in color.
Hahahaha, I thought the ESRB was flexing its muscle and trying to gain some credibility, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I'd like to meet the mythical parent that would let their parent play Manhunt 1 and Manhunt 2 Retail but not Manhunt 2 Uncut. There was no difference!
It's also nice to know that it wasn't as gimped as I thought, so I'll still pick it up eventually. Yeah I liked Manhunt, whatchyagunnado?
I actually think the filters make the kills a little better. Like in a horror movie to make it feel like your insane. Yeah the graphics are not amazing but it still has that feel to it.
Robert Rodriguez talks about it in the commentary for the movie where the MPAA wanted a scene toned down, so he applied more filter and film 'tear' and he says he thought it looked gorier and better.
I don't know how this was supposed to tone down the gore or whatever the hell they were trying to do, but I do agree that it inadvertantly toned up the scary factor. It's a common horror movie tactic anyway. You don't have to see the knife go in to fear the knife going in. It worked for Psycho.
looks far more violent with the filters, reminds me of Fist of the North Star when the colours would go crazy every time there was graphic violence, I think the sudden jarring visuals compliment the violence better... if you're into that sort of thing.
Rockstar seem to have lucked out, better violence and tons of free press.
This reminds me of the black and white in the restaurant scene from Kill Bill: Vol 1. They had to show that part of the film in black and white to appease the censors and keep an R rating, but the content was no different.
Those censored kills are from the PS2 version. The PS2 version, while still stupid, is much better than the Wii version, as far as censorship goes. The Wii version apparently has these horrible blurs for the kills, making hard to see what's even going on.
The crazy filter effects mean you are going more crazy(the more you kill you crazier you get) So basically, they are adding more impact to it.
And, you know, crazy filter effects.
Actually, this is a pretty good example of how the ESRB can be reasonable, and might have a good point(even if giving the game an AO in the first place was a mistake)
It's never really the gore that seems to be the problem(I mean, look at movies. Grindhouse "only" got an R rating) It's the "carelessness" that they are preformed with. "yeah, he's dead, what's to it?" Add more impact in game, and they expect to get more impact out of the game(if you go crazy, you'll see the severity of your actions).
They do have a point in the games to movies comparison. The actions in a movie are preformed by a character, if this were a movie, the word "antihero" would definitely be thrown around a lot. In a game, regardless of what you are playing, YOU are the hero, even if you are just pressing buttons, YOU'RE doing it.
As a final example to what I mean, I would like to point out that although the movie Grindhouse got an "R" the movie The Aristocrats got an NC-17(or "X" or whatever they call it). There is no nudity, graphic violence or gore. Just a joke, and some commentary by a lot of comedians. However, it's the contents of the joke and how easily the comedians tell it that got it the rating(the words "jesus", "sodomy", and "blood" are perfectly fine alone, it's the combination that evokes the disturbing thoughts)
So you see, the ESRB doesn't want less gore or killing, that's fine, just label it M. What they do want is to show some responsibility to your actions, or at least some sort of reaction(with the possible exception of that gleeful smirk...).
Now, if they just used these ideas CORRECTLY, and stop being so vague about the ratings(the MPAA is much worse in this shady sort of way) what they have to do is draw a clear line of what gets you an M rating, and what gets an AO(and why Lost Planet got a T, and Burnout got an E10. Two games with many careless deaths, while Rainbow Six and Dead Rising got an M. Two games where you kill zombies and terrorists. Speaking of which Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Dead Rising would be a great game.) If a game developer thinks it's unfair, they file some sort of complaint(and the rule amended), or an exception can be made for said game(if there is enough reason, of course).
Is it just me, or does it seem like the retail clips are more violent from the 0:45 point onward? The filters make it look like a surveillance camera or an old horror movie, the uncut versions reveal they're just average ps2 Rockstar-style characters. Either way, still going to pass on this one.
That's just bizarre, how flashing B&W could lower the content rating from AO to M. Color-blind peeps won't notice a damned bit of difference. Just draws more attention to it, really.
After actually seeing footage from the game, I dunno what the big deal is. It doesn't seem really all that graphic or horrible or gory, certainly not compared to things like the Saw movies. Frankly this game looks really tame in comparison to some parts of Resident Evil 4 (I watched my husband play it and losing to one of the villagers with chainsaws was like the worst thing I have ever seen) and that game was excellent.
I think I've given up on these comment pages. I can't take hearing about graphics anymore. We all have eyes and can judge for ourselves and don't need to hear it every other post, it's a complete waste of space.
I've invented these special glasses you can wear that make everything you see black & white and blurry. Donning these glasses will grant you immunity to all laws, since its not really murder as long as its b&w and blurry. Each pair costs only $99.95. If you order now, I'll even throwing in a free lens to turn red blood into gray sweat. A $50 value.
Please note, the glasses are for novelty purposes only. I take no responsibility for any crimes related to wearing said glasses.
The wii version sucks that it's censored but if it wasn't it would still be hard enough to see what's going on since you have to pretty much stare at an icon to know what's the next move the whole time you're executing someone, thus taking your view away from the real scene.
Actually, the Wii censorship seems to be even worse than the one in the sample video: I can't make heads or tails of the sequence.
I would really like the censored executions between Wii and PS compared to eachother too. As with Prince of Persia and Resident Evil Chronicles, the Wii edition of Manhunt 2 features VERY little explicit images whatsoever. Weird, because Mortal Kombat was released on the Wii, along with the fatalities. :P
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Sean @ Nov 1st 2007 1:34PM
The graphics are so laughably bad.
FrankTheCrank @ Nov 1st 2007 1:47PM
hmmmmm.....
Should I spend $60 on Manhunt 2 or Heavenly Sword for the PS3?
$60 for Manhunt 2 or Orange Box for the PC?
Crysis for my gaming rig or Manhunt 2 for the Wii?
eh..you get my point. This is a $19.99 game, if that.
Sean @ Nov 1st 2007 1:54PM
I don't think I would even spend $20 on this. Time to hit up the local video store.
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 1:58PM
The game's on the Wii, PS2, and PSP. It won't cost $60.
Comparing ANYTHING to the Orange Box makes it look like a horrible deal. The Orange Box is the best deal in gaming since Metal Slug Anthology!
Comparing anything to Heavenly Sword however...
Geist @ Nov 1st 2007 10:14PM
Heavenly Sword or Manhunt 2? I vote Manhunt 2.
Xvalue @ Nov 1st 2007 1:37PM
it all looks pretty much the same. I dont see how they changed much. I mean, its all mature stuff. Making it a requirement to be 18 as apposed to 17 is pretty silly. I wouldnt let my kids play that (or any other M game)
Negativecool @ Nov 1st 2007 1:38PM
They both look fairly similar to me. The camera in both versions sucks...Based entirely on this I'm not really sure why kills in the uncut version are supposed to be more "satisfying" but I could be wrong.
Dan @ Nov 1st 2007 3:45PM
Yeah there really isn't much difference between "dude dying" & "dude dying in black and white"
Ethan @ Nov 1st 2007 1:39PM
It's like it's screaming 'look I've been censored.' They could've done something better than that.
FidliousWong @ Nov 1st 2007 1:55PM
Well keep in mind, in order for The Punisher to get it's M rating, instead of the prelim AO the ESRB said, the interrogation sequences had to go to black and white. So I understand how this "minor" change (which hurts my eyes, actually) could be used to snag the M rating. It worked for Punisher, it worked for Manhunt.
ShortFuse @ Nov 1st 2007 3:42PM
Kill Bill Vol1 went black and white for that swordfight scene not because Tarantino wanted it that way. He did it to get an R rating. Other releases (like in Japan and Uncut version) have it in color.
Rubang B (NDF - Heart) @ Nov 1st 2007 1:42PM
Hahahaha, I thought the ESRB was flexing its muscle and trying to gain some credibility, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I'd like to meet the mythical parent that would let their parent play Manhunt 1 and Manhunt 2 Retail but not Manhunt 2 Uncut. There was no difference!
It's also nice to know that it wasn't as gimped as I thought, so I'll still pick it up eventually. Yeah I liked Manhunt, whatchyagunnado?
Negativecool @ Nov 1st 2007 1:44PM
I know I wouldn't let my parents play this naughty game.
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 1:46PM
Stupid mythical parents dictating what their parents can and can't play!
Uh.... ::hides::
Ninja Garcua @ Nov 1st 2007 1:42PM
I actually think the filters make the kills a little better. Like in a horror movie to make it feel like your insane. Yeah the graphics are not amazing but it still has that feel to it.
MasterInsan0 @ Nov 1st 2007 1:50PM
Yeah, after seeing this video I tend to agree, although it seems like the static-flash thing it does to censor the kills would get old after a while.
sicsided @ Nov 1st 2007 1:57PM
the only movie to mention really, PLANET TERROR
Robert Rodriguez talks about it in the commentary for the movie where the MPAA wanted a scene toned down, so he applied more filter and film 'tear' and he says he thought it looked gorier and better.
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 1:48PM
I don't know how this was supposed to tone down the gore or whatever the hell they were trying to do, but I do agree that it inadvertantly toned up the scary factor. It's a common horror movie tactic anyway. You don't have to see the knife go in to fear the knife going in. It worked for Psycho.
But yeah, this was like a .05% change if that.
Godmil @ Nov 1st 2007 1:50PM
looks far more violent with the filters, reminds me of Fist of the North Star when the colours would go crazy every time there was graphic violence, I think the sudden jarring visuals compliment the violence better... if you're into that sort of thing.
Rockstar seem to have lucked out, better violence and tons of free press.
Adam Sutherland @ Nov 1st 2007 1:50PM
This reminds me of the black and white in the restaurant scene from Kill Bill: Vol 1. They had to show that part of the film in black and white to appease the censors and keep an R rating, but the content was no different.
Seroth @ Nov 1st 2007 1:57PM
Those censored kills are from the PS2 version. The PS2 version, while still stupid, is much better than the Wii version, as far as censorship goes. The Wii version apparently has these horrible blurs for the kills, making hard to see what's even going on.
Raikage (NDF - PK THUNDER RING) @ Nov 1st 2007 1:57PM
Yep, I did it, I watched it, and now I feel sick...
but if the graphics were better than say... lego men I'd be even more sick...
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 2:03PM
Well shit, thanks for the heads up. My interest is back down to 40%. Maybe I'll play a used PS2 copy in a year.
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 2:04PM
Yo Seroth, this comment was FOR YOU.
arrrgh @ Nov 1st 2007 2:05PM
the kills are just as bad in the original manhunt. This is hillarious. It's like the esrb just "caught on" for public image
konajinx @ Nov 1st 2007 2:12PM
Great...I'm being sent the PS2 version for review...looks like crap already. Hooray.
IseWise @ Nov 1st 2007 2:13PM
You guys linked to the wrong video!
FAIL!
Kassu @ Nov 1st 2007 2:14PM
Whoopie, the graphix sure suck balls in both verisions.
Haha, all the sadists who were happy in the pants for this game must be crying :(
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 2:25PM
I liked the first, but not for the kills or the graphics. I actually liked the PLOT and the gameplay. So sue me.
Fullmetal Salchemist @ Nov 1st 2007 2:31PM
Censored, uncut, this game still looks like crap.
Metacore @ Nov 1st 2007 2:31PM
The crazy filter effects mean you are going more crazy(the more you kill you crazier you get) So basically, they are adding more impact to it.
And, you know, crazy filter effects.
Actually, this is a pretty good example of how the ESRB can be reasonable, and might have a good point(even if giving the game an AO in the first place was a mistake)
It's never really the gore that seems to be the problem(I mean, look at movies. Grindhouse "only" got an R rating) It's the "carelessness" that they are preformed with. "yeah, he's dead, what's to it?" Add more impact in game, and they expect to get more impact out of the game(if you go crazy, you'll see the severity of your actions).
They do have a point in the games to movies comparison. The actions in a movie are preformed by a character, if this were a movie, the word "antihero" would definitely be thrown around a lot. In a game, regardless of what you are playing, YOU are the hero, even if you are just pressing buttons, YOU'RE doing it.
As a final example to what I mean, I would like to point out that although the movie Grindhouse got an "R" the movie The Aristocrats got an NC-17(or "X" or whatever they call it). There is no nudity, graphic violence or gore. Just a joke, and some commentary by a lot of comedians. However, it's the contents of the joke and how easily the comedians tell it that got it the rating(the words "jesus", "sodomy", and "blood" are perfectly fine alone, it's the combination that evokes the disturbing thoughts)
So you see, the ESRB doesn't want less gore or killing, that's fine, just label it M. What they do want is to show some responsibility to your actions, or at least some sort of reaction(with the possible exception of that gleeful smirk...).
Now, if they just used these ideas CORRECTLY, and stop being so vague about the ratings(the MPAA is much worse in this shady sort of way) what they have to do is draw a clear line of what gets you an M rating, and what gets an AO(and why Lost Planet got a T, and Burnout got an E10. Two games with many careless deaths, while Rainbow Six and Dead Rising got an M. Two games where you kill zombies and terrorists. Speaking of which Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Dead Rising would be a great game.) If a game developer thinks it's unfair, they file some sort of complaint(and the rule amended), or an exception can be made for said game(if there is enough reason, of course).
Jdrama418 @ Nov 1st 2007 2:33PM
FYI its $30 for PS2 & PSP and $40 for the Wii
Rubang B (BRUSH WITH FAME) @ Nov 1st 2007 2:37PM
My interest has climbed back to 70%.
Brello @ Nov 1st 2007 3:20PM
Is it just me, or does it seem like the retail clips are more violent from the 0:45 point onward? The filters make it look like a surveillance camera or an old horror movie, the uncut versions reveal they're just average ps2 Rockstar-style characters. Either way, still going to pass on this one.
Kylearan @ Nov 1st 2007 3:25PM
That's just bizarre, how flashing B&W could lower the content rating from AO to M. Color-blind peeps won't notice a damned bit of difference. Just draws more attention to it, really.
LaughingTarget @ Nov 1st 2007 3:37PM
I guess that means whenever Snake strangles someone in MGS it needs to be blurred out. The Punisher was a more violent game than this.
Chrysee @ Nov 1st 2007 3:41PM
After actually seeing footage from the game, I dunno what the big deal is. It doesn't seem really all that graphic or horrible or gory, certainly not compared to things like the Saw movies. Frankly this game looks really tame in comparison to some parts of Resident Evil 4 (I watched my husband play it and losing to one of the villagers with chainsaws was like the worst thing I have ever seen) and that game was excellent.
Easo @ Nov 1st 2007 4:22PM
GameVideos.com
Buffer now, play later.
Zarim @ Nov 1st 2007 5:45PM
Seriously? They all look very similar and for every single execution you saw I could probably name five entire movies worse than that.
HaloBreaker @ Nov 1st 2007 5:52PM
I think I've given up on these comment pages. I can't take hearing about graphics anymore. We all have eyes and can judge for ourselves and don't need to hear it every other post, it's a complete waste of space.
pandlcg @ Nov 1st 2007 7:07PM
I feel like the motion controls of the wii had something to do with the AO rating.
cybereality @ Nov 2nd 2007 9:21AM
I've invented these special glasses you can wear that make everything you see black & white and blurry. Donning these glasses will grant you immunity to all laws, since its not really murder as long as its b&w and blurry. Each pair costs only $99.95. If you order now, I'll even throwing in a free lens to turn red blood into gray sweat. A $50 value.
Please note, the glasses are for novelty purposes only. I take no responsibility for any crimes related to wearing said glasses.
Reppa @ Nov 3rd 2007 3:44PM
This game really rox, i love it, not so ugly :)
hacktek @ Nov 12th 2007 2:43PM
The wii version sucks that it's censored but if it wasn't it would still be hard enough to see what's going on since you have to pretty much stare at an icon to know what's the next move the whole time you're executing someone, thus taking your view away from the real scene.
Justin @ Nov 26th 2007 7:10PM
Actually, the Wii censorship seems to be even worse than the one in the sample video: I can't make heads or tails of the sequence.
I would really like the censored executions between Wii and PS compared to eachother too. As with Prince of Persia and Resident Evil Chronicles, the Wii edition of Manhunt 2 features VERY little explicit images whatsoever. Weird, because Mortal Kombat was released on the Wii, along with the fatalities. :P
roppi @ Jan 5th 2008 1:29PM
the censorship is retarded, do you have to get a gameshark or codebreaker or whatever it's called to bypass it?