Minter's pissed, Frogger outsells Space Giraffe

Don't mean to sound harsh but maybe it didn't do well because it was crap/didn't appeal to enough people? He can't blame gamers for what they choose to buy.

Not that I want him to give up or anything!
And just for the record, I haven't purchased either game ;o)

what did he expect after releasing that?? I found it less enjoyable than a lot of better offerings on XBLA, including Frogger.

Not to piss in your Cheerios, Richard, but Major's list of XBLA games isn't top "played" but top "bought", which usually results in that week's new release being near the top.

umm, is he referring to his game which is an updated remake of the remake of the original tempest. jeff minter is a grumpy old has been who is just looking to shift some blame. i love tempest 2000 on my jaguar, and i bought space giraffe but the game just controls poorly and is too cluttered on screen to be fun.

I didn't really understand the game. I think that XBLA should be easy to learn and fun to play. Graphically it was total crap, and didn't make one bit of sense. Sorry to say, but that's why I didn't purchase it. That's what it comes down to anyway... if it gets purchased or not.

What a childish response, like gamers have it out for him or something. He only has himself to blame if he poured his soul into this game and it failed.

He's got nobody to blame but himself on this one. You can't go out of your way to create a quirky "cult" game, and then complain when it doesn't hit mainstream.

I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the number of people who played the trial, compared to the number who actually bought it. I bet there's a much bigger gap than usual. A lot of Minter/Tempest fanboys insist there's a great game in there somewhere, but when the trial game was that impenetrable (would a decent tutorial have been so hard?), you're never going to sell many games.

Space Giraffe is a genius game. I'm a total Space Giraffe evangelist. That thing is an amazing deal on XBLA. I sucked at it. I was frustrated with it. I died and didn't know why. I hated the graphics and the sound effects too. But I slogged through it and at a certain point everything clicked together and I became one with the game in a way that it is the purest essence of video gaming. Where software, graphics, sound, and joystickery all combine and complement one another in beautiful harmony.

Saying it's just another update of Tempest is exactly as inane a comment as saying Halo 3 is just another update of Doom. Yeah, there's some truth to it, but not nearly enough to make it a "smart and insightful criticism worthy of my consideration".

I would gently suggest to Jeff, though it pains me to do it and I blame the audience's anti-originality biases more than he, would be to tone down the goofiness of the sound effects in particular. My roommates could not stand the thing and would always try to mute the sound (which makes the game nearly unplayable) and it's hard for me to argue with them. When you can "read" the game and are in the zone the kookiness of the sound effects is quite sublime and not bothersome at all, but to the uninitiated outsider it's irritating as all hell. Kind of like traditional chinese opera or rap music. I would suggest that if Jeff wants to increase his sales, all he needs to do is release some sort of Yankee Wanker Patch as free DLC that replaces all the sound effects with things like soldier grunts, explosions and ray guns and engines revving. Stuff Americans like.

Minter's games remind me of Samuel Beckett plays or Jackson Pollack paintings. Easily and accurately denounced by philistines but containing some of the most advanced and beautiful forms of conceptual genius ever seen in their respective mediums.

I bought and played Space Giraffe...I love it. I haven't spent hours upon hours with it, but it's a great shooter in the vein of oldschool arcade fun-fun.

What the hecks he got against frogger? Geez they've realeased two Pac-Man games (and a Mrs. Pacman eventually, if they already haven't, I'm not sure). They've both undoubtedly sold better than his crap

Feh.

Space Giraffe is one of my favorite XBLA titles. We need more out of the box stuff like that. I may suck at it, but damned if it isn't fun, and any game that can do that for me outranks anything in my book.

space giraffe? Um. come on dude. That game is lame. And crying about it doesnt help its cause. Besides, thats the way of the world, most GOOD art is overlooked for the shitty stuff made for the masses. Not to say SG is "GOOD art". Be happy they put it on the Arcade and some people bought it. (i didnt haha)

www.thegreatgamer.wordpress.com

LOL is Etchasketchist Jeff Minter or what? Holy crap dude. How far up his ass are you? For one, I downloaded the demo. I tried to like it... hell I tried to tolerate it. It *IS* an original game however it gets boring FAST.

Instead, I bought the full version of E4. It's trippy and it's addictive.

If your product sucks, no one is going to buy it.... bitching about it isn't going to win over gamers either.

I think whining about it like a spoiled 5 year old puts the nail in the coffin for you buddy. I won't look at another Jeff Minter creation. Suck it up princess.

How can such a childish Prick be considered an adult.

I tried to like his game, I really did, was excited when it was in development and kept tabs on it. But damn there isn't that much to it, it seems a little dull. Sure if you're tripping I bet that game is better... well almost as good as Rez but for a level headed fella like myself I found no joy in it other than the randomness of the game. Like the messages you got at the checkpoints/end of the level/whatever that was. Plus the game suffered heavily from the "what-the-fuck-am-I-suppose-to-do syndrome" for about the first 15 minutes of the average gamer, which is more than people play trials to decide if they'll buy it or not.

Maybe you should have explained it more Minter, maybe you should have made a better initial impression, or maybe it should have came with a few squares of acid.

In any case I've lost all respect for you Minter, I'm shoving you over with the ladies at Factor 5, way to piss off the gamers dude. Go tend to your llamas.

E4, if you want to spend the time to get good scores, is incredibly monotonous.INCREDIBLY. I just can't accept that anyone has spent a good amount of time with the title and still doesn't consider it boring.

You can get better scores by hitting the button according to the beat, but when you also have to collect literally hundreds of multipliers (and quickens) to do so it turns a somewhat fun game into an hour+ plus long exercise in tedium. With the addition of shields (which weren't present in other versions) I find myself killing myself on purpose because I could essentially play the game forever. There's no challenge in it.

Nevermind the shooter version. Switch to dual-stick, spin the right stick with your palm and you can finish all 100 levels with a couple of breaks to deal with the "bosses".

My point largely that different people like different things. There are people who would give an 8 to E4 and a 2 to SG and people who would do the opposite. I fall into the latter camp.

I really like Space Giraffe, I was completely happy with spending the 400 points on it. I can see how anyone involved would be completely frustrated. Minter expressing his frustrations of it doesn't really phase me, honestly. Has no one else complained about their job? I know I do on a weekly basis, particularly in situations where I'm supposed to be "creative" and it just doesn't work out. Who cares? I really don't feel insulted by this.

Bold words, considering his game is a revamped version of Tempest. And he's working on a new port-game called "Gridrunner++" - I expect sales of that will also cause him to seek consolation in his llamas and sheep.

The game needed drugs to be understood, but the drugs woule make it too hard. Conundrum.

The game got a 2/10 from OXM. He needs to read reviews and listen to comments before jumping down "the internet's" throat about this. He's about to walk the same path as PRINCE just did, by suing his own fans.

Also, I don't see an issue with Etchasketchist's comment. There's enough negative points in there that it's far from being up anyone's ass. Personally, I agree with him. If you manage to get the game (and sure, I can understand people not wanting to invest the time or get past its general oddity) and manage to get into the "zone", so to speak, it's an immensely enjoyable game that doesn't really have a direct comparison on XBLA.

I don't think someone saying they really enjoy the game is cause for alarm. At the same time, I can understand people hating it. It is really weird, to keep it short lol.

And I still don't get the Tempest comparisons to this day. Have any of you played both? It's not even worth shooting half the enemies in SG if you want to do well.

"Major's list of XBLA games isn't top "played" but top "bought", which usually results in that week's new release being near the top."

That actually makes the point even more valid. Space Giraffe should be outselling the much older Frogger. And plenty of original titles, particularly UNO and Worms, still do well.

I posted this story on GameStooge. My editorial comment about "shite arcade ports":

Of course, Minter probably didn’t notice some of the more exciting games on Xbox Live Arcade, such as Switchball, Puzzle Quest, Undertow, Pac-Man Championship Edition, and Super Puzzle Fighter - none of which are ports of old arcade games. What was the last arcade port on XBLA? Centipede/Millipede?

Sorry, Jeff - they didn’t like your game. Stop throwing a tantrum. PS. Some of us love Frogger.

boohoo, no one likes my game.

grow up!

@Etchasketchist
OMG how much are you being payed?

@Minter
To be perfectly blunt that space game is utter ****! It's boring, confusing and annoying. Frogger is a classic game, and (unless im wrong) is half the price. We don't just want old remakes on Live Arcade but we welcome our child hood favs. Just because your game was the dogs ballocks doesn't mean that you have the right to slag off XLA or the users. You add an "original" idea but it sucked, get over it. Oh and I don't care if you give up making games. I've never heard of you before and if this is the crap you make I don't care if I never hear of you again! Harsh? Yes, but so was your comment!

Dear Mr. Minter, there is a widely accepted fact about your game at the source of your frustration: the game suck. Pure and simple. And when something sucks so bad in such an obvious way, people don't buy it. It is not appealing, fun or entertaining. The vibrant colors distract the viewers for a few seconds, then makes him sick. Voilà!

Mr Minter,

Let me tell you what I want out of an Xbox Live arcade game. I want an experience that does not suck. I want not only a visual experience but a time-worthy experience that satisfies my sense of accomplishment, without giving me a splitting headache as if I was given the wrong brownies.

Your game sucked. It was terrible. It was a shallow experience that lacked a solid visual style that consumers could understand as well as any comprehensible gameplay that made any type of sense whatsoever.

If you have a game that doesn't sell, it's not because people don't like you (well that was the case THEN), it's because you've created a game that people don't like. Don't take it out on the community because you failed, in your eyes.

Is frogger a better game than Space Giraffe? You bet it is. In fact, Yaris was at least a game I could play for 3 minutes without getting a headache.

From here you have two choices. Either come back with a better title that's playable, or do us all a favor and stop making games. It's a win-win for everyone.

Thanks,
Mordeux

The only rally "shite" on XBLA is junk like "Space Giraffe". Go ahead and quit, Minter. You are now officially a whinning baby that most likely needs his diaper changed. Let the game making be left to the big boys and go suck your thumb in the corner. Insulting customers because your game sucks is the best way to make sure that they never buy anything you put out again.

@Robzy

You're wrong. Frogger and Space Giraffe cost the same ammout. 400 points. Also, Jeff totally has the right to slag off whoever the hell he wants to. It's in the constitution. Welcome to the internet where everybody has the right to slag off everybody else. And no, despite what you think, you're not harsh. You're small. Very very small. I've never heard of you before because you've never done anything.

At first I was really against SG, but due to my respect for the developer and tempest I kept the trial version and played it here and there. Once I finally understood how to play the game I bought it and gotta say it IS a good deal for 400 ms. But, it is hard as hell and any stage past 15 starts getting really tough to tell just what the hell is happening no matter how much you understand the game.
Also were those frogger sales for the week it was onsale for 200 ms? Bottom line is space giraffe is a nice buy for 5 bucks, and better than quite a few 10 dollar games out there, just not for the majority of gamers.

Frogger is included with the Live Arcade Joystick. I suspect that when someone puts in the code that comes in the box it is counted as a sale. I believe thats where most of its "sales" come from.

Between that and the exposure from the price drop I would be more surprised if Frogger was not outselling Space Giraffe.

It's a confusing Tempest clone that we are supposed to pretend isn't a tempist clone...

And you included the term "Yiffing" in the game. Fail. For those of you unfamiliar with that term.... Purry Forn.

@Etchasketchist

While I don't care to know what that person said to you/about you I have learned a great deal about your character from that #28 post. You sound as bad as Minter, perhaps a great deal worse. I hope you're a happy man.

Good day sir.

@30

You eavesdrop on one side of a conversation and think you've learned a great deal about my character? That's kinda cute. Like they say on the Jerry Springer show: "You don't KNOW me!"

29 is right, there's a Frogger redeem code in the Mad Catz Arcade Stick , it probably gets counted as a sale.

I love how his dev team hold little conferences on his livejournal.

Dear Mr. Minter:

Games are made for an audience, not for yourself. We don't care about Llamas or Giraffes. Please consider this in your future game development.

Oh please. How can anyone defend this guy especially after his follow-up post. He just can't take criticism. I was interested in this title before release, but upon playing it was just broken. Having a euphoric experience in a game doesn't mean everything has to be incredibly hard to tell apart or have random pictures of giraffes and sounds. Look at Mizuguchi San's games. E4, Lumines, Gunpey, Rez. These games create a level of euphoria in some players but still have some clear direction to them and control well. It's not even the art-style of Space Giraffe that turns people off - it's just the game isn't fun. And the fact that Minter tells us he isn't making the game for us just proves he was only looking to please himself, and not caring what the people who played it thinks. Now he blames us for that.

*sigh*

*Sigh, moan, burp, puke*

I can defend him because he's a sensitive artist who's under attack from total jerkoffs. Nerds stick together when the bullies are piling on.

The game's not broken. The games controls smooth as butter. The game is fun. I know because I've played it and I'm pretty good at it and I took the time to figure it out. This argument is really hard for me to make with people who are this willfully dense about the game. Everything about the game makes sense and works together in an ingenious little eco-system of light, sound, and math. That's the truth because I've experienced it. And I know what you people are saying who think it's ugly and noisy and unplayable. I was there too once. But this is like trying to explain abstract expressionism to someone who just smirks and says "Yeah, but my kid could paint that." It's really frustrating and it makes me pissy.

This is the best youtube I've found about SG: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AuVjt5ysKz8

Watch it, and please, go play the game again for a while, give it another chance.Try to figure out how to get your multiplier up and see if you can't get to the bonus levels. I know it sounds like work -- and it kinda is -- but you worked at Halo, you know there's rewards for putting in some effort. Or just go home with your hate and leave the dude alone. He's gotten his fair share of shit from all y'all and I think he's gotten the message that you think he's a jaggoff.

But seriously, people hate llamas, but they love koopas and earthworm jims and bandicoots? What gives? When did videogamers become so intolerant of Wackiness and people being different? The tone some people take with this stuff is so fascistic and creepy. Gives me the willies.

Is it really OUR fault that we didn't like the game? Naaah! I think this quote pretty much sums it up.

"What’s really going on here is a confluence of trends. One, which the Times article points out, is that audiences are getting better at seeing through hype and rejecting the crap."
(http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=200)

I reject you Minter, and all your works and powers. Sorry man. I just do.

Then get the hell out, Minter. You won't be missed. Maybe if you make something worth playing for the first time in...what, 10 years? More? You'll be able to open your mouth.

'Till then, you're just a whiny bitch with a livejournal, and nothing more.

Screw Frogger and Space Giraffe, Yaris ftw!

Frogger is a highly recognizable title, being a classic arcade game. Sure the gameplay is simple, but it's based on a game that is quite old.

Space Giraffe is not a known name, but it's gameplay... sometimes, quite mistakenly, is compared to Tempest, which it is not.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Frogger has been sold at retail, packed-in, given away free through various promotions, and even discounted for a limited time sale. Of course it's going to do better.

I've received three copies of Frogger free already.

The trouble with Space Giraffe is the visuals are so over whelming, that it's sometimes hard to tell what's going on. To me, that's not fun. It looks great, but gives me a headache.

Maybe simple isn't bad afterall.

i wish i could comment on his blog post. what a pretentious jerk. space giraffe is a horrible game. i tried it. i put a solid 5-10 minutes into it and i wanted to throw it out the window

@40

I would have to disagree with you on the fact that I believe this game is exactly like Tempest. Saying SG isn't like Tempest is like saying Mass Effect isn't like Kotor. They both have the exact same graffic style.
The exact same music style.
Instead of a superzapper to kill everything on the screen you use the tail in almost the exact same manner. Both games have jump pods. and the landscape you play on in both games is virtually the same not to mention even the enemies look the same.
SG to me is to tempest as Pac Man CE is to Pack Man. Its the same game with a few really sweet tweeks that makes the game worth playing..........Example, The powerzone in SG.
The game is crazy and its hard. Not to mention if I come accross anybodys gamercard on live that has the game, I will be impressed and give props to, if they have 200 of 200. Hell I'm impressed now if they have the game.Its a game achievement whores will wanna stay away from due to the fact that the achievements are about as tough to get as geo wars. Just try the trial again. I thought the game was a piece of shit when it first came out. But I left the trial in there and played it here and there till I finally bought it like 2 months ago. When you get it, the game is fun.Plus you can blow ur buddies minds showing it to them and they'll be dazzald trying to figure out what the hell your doing. If you just don't like the game pass up on it and get Mutant Storm Empire that game needs more players. I'm like the only guy in all of live that tries to play it online apparently.

While I admire Mr. Minter and respect his work, I just didn't find space giraffe to be any actual fun. Which is sort of important. When you release a game for an online-only distribution model with almost no marketing or pre-established brand recognition, and take into consideration that most gamers on xbox live have absolutely no idea who Jeff Minter actually is- it should come as no surprise that this happened.

What was Minter expecting? Space Giraffe as an experiment in game design while interesting, isn't the most accessible piece of code up on the XBLA these days.

@ Richard Mitchell-

How exactly do either Worms or UNO qualify as original XBLA titles??? Even Geometry Wars doesn't really count as an original XBLA game. It's a sequel.

@ NuAngel-

Taking an OXM review seriously is like believing everything you see on Fox News. Not much critical analysis to be found in shite writing, is there?

Th fact of the matter is that Minter would have a hard time GIVING Space Giraffe away if it weren't for distribution outlets like XBLA and the PSN.

How do you think Space Giraffe would've fared as a free Flash game? My guess: about the same.

It's it just possible that Space Giraffe sucks balls?!

Minter seems to be an expert at generating 'negative' press, which I'm sure is greatly increasing the trial side of SG's trial to purchase ratio.

The game sucks. Plain and simple.

I was never a fan of Tempest, so obviously I hate Space Giraffe. But that's the point of this game, if you like Tempest, you'll like SG. If you want a game experience 25 years old with a few tweaks here & there, then go out and buy SG! But there's nothing new (aside from a couple tweaks), nothing fun (you might as well just play Tempest), and not worth the price.

I bought Pac-Man, but I didn't buy Pac-Man CE. I own SF2 on an older system, therefore I'm not going to buy SF2 on XBLA. So even if I liked Tempest, I still wouldn't buy SG.

I think Minter is from a time when kids had video game systems, but only had 2-3 games for it. OK, if I only had 2-3 games, then I might play Space Giraffe. But that's not the case these days. I have access to over 100 360 games, 100's of XB original games, and a growing library of XBLA games. So why would I waste my time on a mediocre remake?

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with remaking an old game. A perfect example is SSF2T:HD remix. They are creating new art and bringing the game into full HD. And they're doing it to a game that's already fun to play and isn't outdated by 25 years.

Minter is probably just one of those old school gamers who still thinks Pitfall and Prince of Persia are better than any game today. He's stuck in a time warp, and can't get to 2007. He doesn't realize that even though he's only making XBLA games, they are still using the 360 system. Therefore we don't need to use the same graphical interface Tempest used decades ago!!

Bottom line is, Space Giraffe tries to be simple and fun, but it turns out to be simple and boring. Well, he got one right.