Ars Technica tackles report linking WiFi and autism
However, before throwing that DS or PSP into the nearest lead-coated dumpster, you may want to read Ars Technica's response to the press release. In it, they bring the credibility of the authors into question, and debunk the report's main argument, all the while showing the possible ulterior motives of the two writers.
Considering that the numerous health agencies that have studied the possible health risks of WiFi devices and mobile phones have never found any danger from using wireless technology, we're inclined to agree with Ars Technica. But considering the growth of WiFi technology, and the general lack of understanding about the causes of autism, we'd be surprised if this is the last report of its kind.
[Via EvilAvatar]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
LaughingTarget @ Nov 25th 2007 9:29PM
It is never good to attack the credibility of the person, only the credibility of the results. Even the most consistently incorrect person can have a correct statement. This means the discussion of them not being "mainstream" is completley meaningless. Credentials are not prerequisites of competence.
The article should have focused exclusively on counterarguments to the claims. Any serious effort to call question to the credibility of the messenger indicates improper research (common on journalistic communities that don't have the time to go in-depth) or a poor argument entirely. The data should speak for itself, if it can't, then it should be strengthened or abandoned entirely.
James @ Nov 25th 2007 9:38PM
I think it's okay to go after the authors if there is a link. Say, MS publish data that proves Nintendo products will kill you. You'd go for their credibility first since it's such an absurd story. Still though, with Wifi you never know.
LaughingTarget @ Nov 25th 2007 9:51PM
Nope, incorrect. Even if Microsoft should say the competition could kill you, we cannot immediately disregard it because of the source. We can disregard the message based on the data, or lack thereof. If Microsoft does put out something that says Nintendo kills and can't back it up with good information, we can ignore the information.
The concept of credibility is dangerous, partly because of ignoring the truths from those labeled as lacking credentials but more dangerously, believing incorrect information from those who do have them. Individuals with public credibility have incredible powers of deception at their disposal, be they intentional or accidental. The biggest ones are journalists and politicians, many members of both groups are presented in highly credible lights. Too many problems have arisen from credible people providing bad data. It was once in the realm of credible science that some races were genetically superior to others and many bad governmental policies are created when we take the word of a previously credible political leader (great example - Bush and The Patriot Act, capitalized the 93% approval rating to push it through).
Ignore the source, focus on the data presented, the methods used to obtain the information and the interpretations of the results. That way, we can never go wrong. Don't ever let someone else think for you, no matter how credible you think they may be.
iofthestorm @ Nov 26th 2007 2:22AM
Well, when the source is a journal that doesn't actually exist, you begin to question the author's honesty. Also, if they don't have the knowledge or background to actually research something like this and have clear ulterior motives, why would you trust them? Would you trust an elementary school student to make accurate judgments about brain surgery?
Ace of Sevens @ Nov 26th 2007 8:42PM
@Laughing Target: they did address the science. They pointed out the whole thing was absed on the idea that heavy metal poisonign causes autism when no legit reasearch has ever shown this to be the case. That makes any exprapolations of the idea similarly invalid.
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 25th 2007 9:30PM
Ah ok... I thought that Joe utilize a lot of WiFi devices... but naa... thats not the problem with him then.
JerJerBinks @ Nov 25th 2007 10:31PM
Do they speak english in what?
Spiza @ Nov 25th 2007 9:31PM
I figured I would post this since Joystiq never popped it up, but Wal-Mart still has a "secret sale" going on tonight where if you buy a PS3 80GB, you get 10 free blu-ray movies. If you don't want BD movies, you can sell those on ebay for at least $15 a piece, if not a little more.
Spiza @ Nov 25th 2007 9:33PM
oh, this lasts till 11:59 Sunday night. If the manager doesn't believe you, ask them to read the promotion details they were given.
now you can probably neg me for off topic.
LunarAura @ Nov 25th 2007 9:35PM
But that PS3 has wi-fi built in. And that accelerates autism.
You are promoting autism. o_o
gir @ Nov 25th 2007 9:44PM
What happens if I return the PS3 unopened? Do I still get to keep the 10 movies for which I can sell on eBay and get more than $150 for it?
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 25th 2007 9:45PM
But the problem with that offer is that you need to buy a PS3...
Spiza @ Nov 25th 2007 9:50PM
gir, I've heard people have done this. On your receipt, it shows the PS3, and then the movies at $0.00. Ask for a gift receipt on the PS3 as well to help things along.
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Nov 25th 2007 9:49PM
ugh.
Why don't we say that everything will either kill you, or fuck up your baby.
Seriously it seems that everything I do now can either give me cancer, or have some negative effect on my child.
jackbauer @ Nov 25th 2007 10:05PM
don't forget you sperm count! that's in danger too!
don't drink mountain dew!
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Nov 25th 2007 11:13PM
...
Fuck.
jamma @ Nov 26th 2007 8:11AM
And people are forgetting that autism and cancer were around LONG BEFORE WIFI, and so was infertility. People are just looking for a reason behind it now, instead of realising that this shit just happens.
very soon there will be no such thing as death by natural causes, and people will be paranoid that electromagnetic fields will be killing us all...
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Nov 26th 2007 11:17AM
There is no such thing as death by natural causes. Even dying from "old age" isn't valid anymore. Its always some organ or system that fails that causes death. Being old isn't inherently fatal, its the loss of your cells ability to successfully divide and produce new cells that makes you die.
Superstar90 @ Nov 25th 2007 10:04PM
Does this mean Wi-Fi going to my Wii, DS, PSP, Laptop, 360 and Ipod go through my brain and make me have autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism autism?
jovin6 @ Nov 25th 2007 10:24PM
I propose a survey of autistic children and how they feel when we point wireless controllers at their heads. We can probably just conduct it by phone. Autistic people are good at phone calls, right?
GalileoAce @ Nov 25th 2007 10:30PM
Being Autistic myself, I find their hypothesis incredibly suspect. Considering I was born in 1983 long before there were any serious WiFi (if any), and also considering I've been Autistic since, or even before, birth...The whole argument that WiFi causes Autism comes crashing down.
B3astofthe3ast @ Nov 25th 2007 10:49PM
Just because you've had autism before WiFi, doesn't mean it can't cause it. Im sure people have had cancer before we started exposing ourselves to radiation, so I guess that means radiation doesn't cause cancer...
My brother was lead poisoned when he was little, and he has autistic-like symptoms. And although I doubt WiFi does anything in a world where we have wireless everything, it should still be investigated.
hi2u @ Nov 25th 2007 11:56PM
Other than in its perhaps sensational headline, the press release never implies that autism causes WiFi, although it does claim a link between WiFi and the acceleration of autism's symptoms. By assuming that the study's apparent conclusion that "in many of the children, the decrease in metals was concomitant with symptom amelioration" implies causality, your original argument commits the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Furthermore, your argument - that because you were autistic at birth despite lack of exposure to WiFi, autism cannot be caused by WiFi - in addition to having as its basis the first logical fallacy is clearly an inappropriate generalization. This is not to say that your conclusions are wrong, especially since having not read the study I cannot even attempt to evaluate its conclusion, but instead to warn you that your logic is flawed.
ill trooper @ Nov 26th 2007 12:24AM
hi2u, excellent comment. Debunking faulty logic is always the move...
Carl Sagan outlined common flaws that are often exploited by the clever, or bumbled upon by the not-so-clever...
http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
Questworld @ Nov 26th 2007 11:22PM
It's not just WiFi y'know. It could be microwave ovens, electrical power lines, or simply electronics in general. It could be a problem in the genetic level or a combination of both electronic emissions and people being more susceptible to these things. I'm not saying we should be living out our lives looking behind our backs wondering what little things can contribute in making us ill in the future, but we can't dismiss these things simply because you don't want to believe in it. Some people out there don't want to believe that people's daily habits may be causing global warming, but for argument's sake let's say they are wrong, ignoring the possibility isn't going to improve the dilemma. Heck, even before people would say it wasn't the smoking that's bad for them because they've got grandfathers who smoke packs a day and lived for a long time. But when presented with overwhelming evidence their tune will change to a stubborn "it's my life anyway."
For all we know autism can be fueled by accumulated exposure to many forms of electronic radiation, compounded through generation after generation. I mean even microwave ovens have an effect on the foods we put into it. Just look at some studies on that.
dustandechoes91 @ Nov 25th 2007 11:00PM
HEAVY METAL TOXINS CONTAIN INSANE DRUM SOLO PARTICLES
jake11 @ Nov 26th 2007 12:12AM
that was funny. kudos
gone with the wind @ Nov 25th 2007 11:02PM
as long as i dont get testicular cancer i dont care
Tonbo @ Nov 25th 2007 11:03PM
As an MD PhD student, it is distressing to hear research this shoddy get any press at all. I would say that 90% of published research has serious flaws (good research costs money), but if it's not even good enough to get into one of the 5,000+ indexed journals on medline (pubmed) then it is 100% guaranteed to be crap (Ars Technica had that right). From the press release it doesn't even sound like they tried their detox protocol in a control (EMR saturated) environment (retrieval of the original article was impossible).
ThornedVenom @ Nov 25th 2007 11:05PM
I've always hated wireless technology.
gone with the wind @ Nov 25th 2007 11:31PM
y?
Negativecool @ Nov 25th 2007 11:51PM
Less wires to choke you with.
gone with the wind @ Nov 26th 2007 12:34AM
@negative cool well i guess ill just use wifi to give you autism before you choke me
ThornedVenom @ Nov 26th 2007 3:34AM
For some discriminating reason, wireless technology has always crapped out on me with breaking signals, therefore I have deemed wireless technology as an unreliable farce.
Long live cables forever!
reppy @ Nov 26th 2007 12:08AM
Remember when everyone said trans fats were safe, too? :p
gone with the wind @ Nov 26th 2007 1:10AM
wait there not safe? craaaaaaaaaaap
ogvor @ Nov 26th 2007 12:08AM
After recently going through a Psychology 101 course at college, our professor went right for the neck of all these fear mongering "Autism Epidemic" type stories. Their is not a sudden increase in Autism, their is an increase in people categorized as Autistic.
1980 – To be consider Autistic, you must meet 6 traits
1994 – You must meet 3 of a numerous selection of traits
Mercury in Vaccinations doesn't cause it, and Keylation is dangerous. It's a tragic condition, but do not be roused by fear of it by the media. And my professor had a guest speaker (who's son is severly Autistic) and she had some optomistic news to share about Autisim that doesn't seem to get as fairly represented in the media: They can improve, and have in every control group in a study for a new kind of treatment.
ill trooper @ Nov 26th 2007 12:18AM
So there you have it folks, the 'psychology 101' student has cleared it all up. "Their" is nothering too fearing aboot.
ogvor @ Nov 26th 2007 12:32AM
Look, I'm not saying "I" know everything about Autisim, I'm saying my Psychology Professor, head of the department, and publisher of numerous studies in Scientific Journals (the kind that require precise study and years of research) knows a lot about the subject and that the media DOES NOT. Just maybe, perhaps he's wrong, and I'm sorry if I sounded a little like the know it all college student (though at least I wasn't trying to lie about my credentials) but if you honestly you know someone who's more knowledable about the subject or that the media AREN'T putting out sentational, eye-grabbing headlines about Autisim and many other parts of science and medicine, they go a head and prove your point.
gone with the wind @ Nov 26th 2007 12:47AM
what's keylation? just curious
Tonbo @ Nov 26th 2007 12:57AM
Chelation. Chelators bind to metal toxins and convert them into inert substances.
ogvor @ Nov 26th 2007 1:09AM
Sorry for the incorrect spelling, but as Tonbo said, Chelation is a treatment that is supposed to rid the body of metal toxins and convert them into inert substances, and is purported to treat Autisim by removing the Mercury from vaccines. Of course, their are no scientific studies published and peer reviewed that support the theory that vaccines cause Autisim, rather, their are studies that disprove the connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
(I dislike linking to Wikipedia, which is obviously prone to misinformation, but this page basically holds a list of links to scientific journals, and cautions of the dangers our media holds when running stories about unproven scientific theory. Many outbreaks of measles were caused by parents who choose not to give vaccines to their children becuase of their fear of Autisim.)
ill trooper @ Nov 26th 2007 1:13AM
Ogvor, I really was just joking, I do know what you're saying. I didn't write 'joking' or anything in my first message because I didn't think it would sound as funny. I should have. My bad.
gone with the wind @ Nov 26th 2007 1:20AM
right or wrong spelling i had not heard of chealation, hmm i did not know mercury was inside vaccinations isnt that i dont know poisonous wth is it used for, sorry im not to informed or sound dumb but medical stuff isnt my strong point i am doing bad in my ap psychology class in high school.
ogvor @ Nov 26th 2007 1:39AM
ill trooper, sorry if I responded to harshly, I simply get worked up at how the media portrays science. You'll hear this from just about anyone working in science, that the media is constantly misrepresenting them. From Global Warming, which in Scientific Journals is not debated, to Evolution and the ridiculous credit given to Intelligent Design, and those senational "Pizza Cures Cancer" and "Bacon Good for the Heart" type headlines, it's really just depressing that for many people, that is their scientific education.
ill trooper @ Nov 26th 2007 12:14AM
So the logical fanboy's first thought is that the wifi-less 360 will be exempt from being considered a factor in causing widespread autism in the next decade, while the PS3 might be accountable for some blame but is excused because of all the folding research that was contributed, and the entire class-action lawsuit will be levied at the Nintendo Wii, as it offered no free choice but to use wifi, and it sold so well. Right. Got it.
Joking aside, this is the sort of frightening thing that the general public never seems to want to know about, because we've all gotten so accustomed to the convenience... It's simply too gnarly to go back on - like the ties with aluminum cookwear being suspected of contributing to Alzheimer's, mobile phones and high-power lines and cancer, Lead in paints, and now something like this - it's never gonna really be revealed to be true until we have something else to replace it with.
It's like we're forced to say "well, guess we'll overlook this, the damage is done and it's deep. Let's stop doing that in 2015."
"Agreed. Totally... and what's your wifi password again? I gotta check my Facebook."
gone with the wind @ Nov 26th 2007 12:37AM
what's the related story got to do with this story?
Daran @ Nov 26th 2007 1:12AM
whats love got to do?
Tom @ Nov 26th 2007 2:59AM
It's the heavy metal toxins causing the autism, duh.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Nov 26th 2007 4:23AM
Why is it you never hear about this kind of stuff boosting IQ or turning you into a superhero?