PS3 version of Orange Box might be 'downright unplayable'

@ Joe

You weren't around this site between March and E3, Sony got a lot of positive press, between how much Phil Harrisson "upstaged" Shiggy at GDC, and how Sony was declared the winner of E3 (unofficially) due to their presentation of more original content and features than the other 2 (Nintendo only introducing Wii Fit, and Microsoft just repeating the party line that everyone knew about anyway)

No, its not always "kick Sony while they're down" around here, just lately

PS3 is cool for movies, and HS and R&C are cool games. I think the $399 one is worth it, but I got the 60G so I could get rid of my PS2 from the entertainment center.

yes, it's almost as if someone threw in this old hot potato in at the weekend to keep us busy isn't it?

Well, I always hate sundays because Joystiq isn't updated, but with this miniwar going on... it's all good.

And I'm sure he's quivering like jelly from your intense upbraiding!!!!

Can you put me in my place too????? Or has mommy called you to bedtime? I mean it is a school night, and little children need their rest to perform well at their studies.

i find you crude and witty at the same time. i am charmed. i know you prefer pc, but it's amusing that your defending the ps3 and hate 360 owners as much as gabe. lolz

lucrative? how do you expect a product to be lucrative BEFORE it is even released?

To get profits you need to invest...or are you one of the many that think that money grows out of trees?

Hell, altho its sad, sometimes it doesn't pay off even with a gigantic userbase, just look what happened to Clover studios...

Let me explain it so one of your intelligence can understand.

I have a coat factory.
I have stores in Canada and the Bahamas.
Will I send teh majority of my stock to Canada where it gets cold, or the Bahamas, where it doesn't?

Likewise if I am selling games, will I be more concerned about hte system that has almost 15 million units sold, or almost 5 million units sold?

Idiot.

Really joe, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you make something for a limited audience, no matter how good it is, you are'nt going to profit off of it. Your arguement is valid until you ask yourself how good a quality of ice you have to be selling to turn a profit on eskimoes.

synner... you'll burn in hell for that analogy so god awful, it's blasphemous.

canadian's need coats because of cold weather, but bahamians do not because of hot weather.

BOTH THE PS3 AND THE 360 NEED GAMES no matter how many people have each because they are gaming consoles. also a game will help people buy a console to use it on. look up the fucking square enix - crisis core example you looked over, douchebag. however, bahamians won't buy a coat to make the weather cold, you FUCKING MOORROOOON. oh here i go again.

Yeah, I am the moron, but you still can't see my point..

VALVE DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT HOW THE GAME PLAYS ON PS3 BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE MADE ON SO SMALL A USER BASE DOESN'T JUSTIFY THEM TAKING THE TIME TO PORT IT WHEN THEY COULD MAKE A NEW GAME THAT WILL SELL TO THE MUCH WIDER PC/360 USERBASE...

Jesus, explaining things to you is as easy as gitting a million seller on PS3.

tell that to square enix. you apprently know better than they do. those fucking idiots are making their number 1, or rather number 2 if ur japanese, franchise exclusive to ps3 - final fantasy - regardless of install base, and i predict they'll still make a shitload of money. number 1 to japanese is apparently dragon... something. eh i forgot. wow it's getting late. same time same place!!
DRAGON QUEST!
okay good night.

Yep, Like all PS3tards you hang the future of your system on, well, the future... Too bad there are like 4 games worth buying for it (though none worth buying the system exclusively for) and everything else is either

a. Delayed
b. Has been out on other systems forever
c.a blu-ray movie.

Yes, that's a very good thing.

Well, maybe not THAT good.

really, you should have bought two. At least you'd be becoming a crafty consumer!

Whatever you are smoking dude, I want some of it.

Zoe, its all the truth. Whether or not you want to live in a fantasy world is your decision.

Valve didn't program the ps3 version, but the fact that they let it get outsourced to an EA dev is almost as bad. I made another reply to you, but I don't know where it went lmao

You can't say in the same sentence that the advantage of the PS3 is memory bandwidth and then two words after you basically state the opposite.

Anyway, this is sort of the same argument people were using during the last console generation and guess what? It matters to people like me for a purely technical standpoint but in the end it doesn't affect the general public nor the games.

The fact people are having fun with the Wii is testament to that, after all it is the least powerful console this generation (I personally see it as a stop-gap solution between the last generation and this one) but that doesn't stop people from enjoying its games.

In the end you have the same exact problem as Fernando which is that your personal preferences are clouding your opinions, if you were to do a point by point comparison of the 360 and the PS3 you'll see that both are pretty much equal once you take their pros and cons, the 360 has the advantage of accessibility (MS being a software company at heart does wonders for development tools to be accessible) vs. the PS3's hardware flexibility at the core (Yes, having 7 SPU's gives you a lot of flexibility to split physics, AI, rendering, etc. and have it processed much quicker)

I still fail to see how your argument correlates to the fact that porting from OpenGL to DirectX is quite easy and that porting from DirectX to OpenGL is a nightmare due to all the tweaking required.

No, Zoe, you're FLAT OUT WRONG.

The PS3 can have it's proclaimed ultra high floating point processing power, but in REAL LIFE, thats not possible, and in REAL LIFE, the 360, on average, produces higher floating point numbers. Thats in REAL LIFE, might I add. The whole thing about the PS3 is that almost all the performance specs that Sony gloats about are THEORETICAL. In all real world cases, the PS3 cannot touch that because of the skimpy Cell. Had they put in a conventional processor or a 3 core (hell, maybe even 2 core) Cell in there, it might make some decent numbers and perform well. It would be even harder to program for, but its not like bad programming is what is really limiting the graphics/gameplay of PS3 games.

The upper bus on the 360 motherboard (graphics bus) has almost 5 times the bandwidth of the PS3's graphics bus. Thats a fact. Not hard to get, but with your apparent lack of knowledge and blind love for the PS3, it might be.

Now, don't sit there and think that I'm ragging on the PS3. No, I'm not- I like it when people push gaming consoles further. Sony has done this with the Cell. Its just that its not as powerful, nor is it practical enough for today's games and developers. The Cell is a great idea- its just that releasing it this gen was the WRONG thing to do. The only real thing I have a problem with is Sony's marketing. Lying to the public to get your product to sell isn't a good idea.

I'm not talking about the Pros and Cons of either console, I'm saying that once you tally things up, the Xbox is a MORE POWERFUL console. Thats all I'm saying- and its the pure and simple truth.

What the Hell makes you think I'm like this Fernando guy? I haven't posed my opinion at all, really, nor have I let any opinion "cloud" what I'm saying. Facts are facts, and you can't "cloud" them.

Oh, and I fail to realize how my post was meant to address issues with DirectX and OpenGL...

Take a Valium or something before replying.

Both CPU's have the same precision so I fail to see how one produces "bigger floating point numbers" than the other.

You probably mean GFLOPs and since there is no way to measure GFLOPs in real life (More so for in-game performance) you have to go with the numbers you get from synthetic benchmarks: 116 GFLOPs for the IBM Xenon (X360) and 204 GFLOPs for the Sony/Toshiba/IBM Cell (PS3).

As for bandwidth it really depends on the operations performed, the 360 is quite similar to the PS2 in that there's a lot more bandwidth inside the GPU than in the rest of the system, the PS3 has consistent sustained bandwidth amongst all its subsystem so that point is moot, both are architecturally sound the PS3 has more bandwidth from memory to the CPU and the 360 has more bandwidth from the CPU to the GPU.

What the 360 has in its favor is a more advanced GPU specially with the 10MB eDRAM daughter-die allowing it to buffer, do AA and texture swapping with no hit on the GPU performance (Kinda like what the PS2 did with the GS and the on-die 4MB of eDRAM)

And yes, you are like Fernando, maybe not a troll like him (I hope) but you are taking numbers and stats completely out of context, not to mention that you are already labeling me without prior knowledge of what consoles I own.

The issues with this port are simple:

1)EA used only the PPU (By their own admission, I personally find it hard to believe they'd be that lazy and not compartmentalize their code, but then again I'm not them so how would I know)
2)DirectX to OpenGL is a bitch, ask Aspyr or any other software house that specializes in porting to the Mac or Linux (Just remember that OpenGL is the open standard)
3)Despite its Quake-engine beginnings, the Source Engine has always been an example of a DirectX optimized engine as opposed to id's Tech engines.

In closing, we can spend the next 5 years arguing numbers and stats, they don't explain the advantages and disadvantages of each platform's architecture and the only indisputable facts are the ones above, the rest is tech wankery of the worst kind which has been proven useless by good ports like Fifa08, GRAW2, R6:Vegas, Oblivion, etc. So argue all you want about specs and declare virtual winners as you may, that doesn't lend your argument any more weight nor your position any more solidity.

I'm done arguing. You make some good points, but most are either A) not what I'm arguing about, or B) wrong.

The processors are the big deal here, really. Since the PS3's Cell contains one PPU (one actual core), it cannot process your average Joe coding as well as the 360 can. It just does not have the power. Thats what the Cell is, a scrawny processor with many "hands". The Cell is the brains, and the Xenon is the brawn, but only here, the brains don't "win". On top of that, (you can obviously see that I'm talking in real world situations), the Cell can handle AI, physics, and other pieces of code that have many branches slightly better. That being said, in games, that means only a 10% (maximum) performance leverage over the Xenon. Had Sony made the Cell maybe a 2 core processor with 2 PPUs, and keep the same 8 SPEs to keep the cost down, the Cell would then be a *real* competitor and would dominate hands down, because not only are load times hindered by the slow disc drive speed, but the Cell just can't load it that fast either.

I am glad, however, that you recognize what that eDRAM does, and you understand your components, that sets you ahead of the rest as far as Joystiq's posters go, but still. While the bandwidth may bottleneck with the rest of the system, the system isn't shorted of any info being processed by the GPU, unlike the PS3, which is a cause for many of the framerate issues seen in games like MotorStorm and Resistance.

Whatever. I'm done. Continue if you like, but I'm probably not going to respond.

You sound like someone saying "it's not the size that matters, but what you do with it."

Nobody buys it, not even yourself.

YEAH!!!

Joe posts in preteen text-speak! He is R33lY 133T!!!! lolzers!!!

Yeah, Joe. You, again, know nothing. I doubt you're computer could even run CS:S at a framerate above 20, and I HIGHLY doubt you even know what anisotropic filtering or anti-aliasing is.

oh i said water mark, oops. fuck you, i know wat 3d mark is - a benchmark tool. but your argument still fails.

Yeah, because I was talking about 3D Mark 06, right? No, failure, I was talking about your computer sucking the shit out of my anus, and you not knowing what AA and anisotropic filtering is.

No, I don't feel like a dick, because unlike you, I don't insult everyone.

Nice PC yo have Joe...
i have an ATI 9250 PCI bus (not PCI express) but guess what im able to play Half Life 2 with medium settings, !!Greattt.....