Criterion (cockily) responds to Burnout Paradise criticisms
In between references to the "experience" of Burnout Paradise, and claims that it's the "best demo released all year," Alex Ward addresses concerns regarding the lack of a "retry" option in the game's races, stating that the game is better off without one, as it would require a load screen, and the Burnout Paradise team "hates loading with a passion."
In addition, Ward brings up the former Crash Mode (now called Showtime), promising that it's better than anything ever, and also makes sure to point out that feedback on the demo will in no way affect the final game, as work on Paradise has already wrapped up. Good to know Criterion's open to constructive criticism, eh?
[Via GameStooge]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
captain underpants and the bringdown gang @ Dec 24th 2007 9:41AM
the fix is simple when they do a retry they have to do the same thing backwards. just set the navigation points back to the beginning of where they started (the coordinates of which could easily be stored in the ram)
bm @ Dec 24th 2007 10:36AM
Yup, the way pretty much every game ever already does it. Racing games, FPS games, you name it.
I don't know how these guys ever became developers.
Dan @ Dec 24th 2007 1:10PM
Yeah, everyone makes out like burnout is so awesome, but ridge racer, GT, forza, TDU and PGR are all better games imo.
evilsmevil @ Dec 24th 2007 1:11PM
what happens when they want to retry half way through the race?
SoulBlade @ Dec 24th 2007 1:35PM
Unless you guys have any idea about how their code is written, the software is designed, and the system is architected, you can't say crap like "how did they become developers" - try to remain ignorant silently please.
If it were really that easy to implement, they would have done it, but they probably had other features to implement before deadline / ship date.
Hashbrown_Hunter @ Dec 24th 2007 2:28PM
I concur with SoulBlade. If any of you knows how to code and develop for a game you'd know it takes a shitload of time. And so what if you don't have a retry option? Just try the mission again.
lazy asses
Platinum_Skeet @ Dec 24th 2007 3:14PM
Midnight Club: DUB Edition did it on about 1/2 the races and Rockstar already claims Midnight Club LA will do the same.
I think it's developer laziness. They are owned by EA and the only time EA delays a game is if it's better to release it at a later date to make more money...
SoulBlade @ Dec 24th 2007 3:21PM
its easy to call a developer lazy when you have no idea what goes into developing a large piece of software such as a game like Burnout.
game devs are consistently the guys who are burning the midnight oil and putting in weekend hours to get their shit done by ship date. Please get a clue.
Chainblast @ Dec 24th 2007 3:41PM
Yeah that would work.
This was the first thing I noticed after failing my first race. However if they do not make any changes one can simply find another race going back towards the starting point of the failed one.
CB @ Dec 24th 2007 4:12PM
@SoulBlade
Although I too hate the term lazy devs, do you seriously think the above posters meant it literally? Don't get hellbent on some comment.
And Joystiq, I've not seen Paradise "with largely positive reception". There's about an equal amount of both love and hate, if the comments below are any indication.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Dec 25th 2007 12:22AM
It all depends on the technique used. I know nothing about how BOP plays, but I do know that resetting destructible environments is more complex than flipping a switch if you're pushing your memory usage to the limit.
Lazy? Probably not. Bad design? Probably. I can't say I've seen a lot of lazy designers on the 360 compared to other consoles, but there's plenty of bad implementations that should have stayed on paper. Sonic, anyone?
I just tried Burnout Revenge and it was horrible -- largely because the graphics were so dark I couldn't see a damn thing. I'll give Paradise a try.
Bellerophon @ Dec 24th 2007 9:59AM
I hate loading screens as much as the next guy, but if a developer is so arrogant to throw general usability out of the window I say meh.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be picking up Burnout Paradise on release, but having to drive all the way back to where that traffic light was for the event I lost by a place was already a bit tedious in the demo let alone the full game.
Leggo @ Dec 24th 2007 3:15PM
Are you high? You're suggesting that instead of hitting retry, people should stop complaining and turn their car around and drive BACK to the starting point to initiate the race again?? ... What???
While we're at it, lets get rid of save points too. People are just being lazy, let them start from the beginning if they die or have to take care of something else.
Shane @ Dec 24th 2007 7:43PM
Leggo,
I don't think you could have interpreted what he said any worse. He is saying that they should have put in the retry option.
vdeogmer @ Dec 24th 2007 9:59AM
what about the people who have complained about DJ Atomica constantly babbling at us?
Psykoboy2 @ Dec 24th 2007 10:29AM
You can turn him off in the options.
Platinum_Skeet @ Dec 24th 2007 3:17PM
I'M FREE!!!
giantenemycrab @ Dec 24th 2007 3:27PM
THANK YOU Psykoboy2!! I hate his voice so much. That'll make the game a little less annoying. Truth be told, however, I think that this is the weakest Burnout to date.. :/
UltraDSA @ Dec 24th 2007 10:08AM
This demo Has NOT been accepted postivley, Ever board I go to wreeks with complaints, I hope they learn from there dud!
Mighty Healthy @ Dec 24th 2007 10:34AM
101% cosine
deaftly @ Dec 24th 2007 10:10AM
burnout is dead to me now :(
Cabcru @ Dec 24th 2007 10:13AM
Wasn't Alex Ward that nut-bar who went barmy over people 'beating' games? He's turning out to be a right tit, ain't he?
SoxFan13 @ Dec 24th 2007 10:15AM
There are things that could be better (like every game), but what demo was better? (I'm not being a sarcastic jerk, I'm actually asking)
Mort @ Dec 24th 2007 11:09AM
I would reply "Kane and Lynch" just to demonstrate how unfriendly this demo is... but it might result in people hating me.
Arrogant dev, unfriendly usability, poor demo.
DemonGSides @ Dec 24th 2007 12:16PM
There was a Kayne and Lynch Demo.
Dagon @ Dec 24th 2007 12:35PM
Crackdown may have had the best demo ever much less this year. Also on the matter of their cleverly disguised loading screen I would rather look at a static screen for 20 seconds than have two minutes of (mostly) actionless driving. Its the same as all those elevator conversations in mass effect, nobody is fooled and everyone knows the game needs to load so can developers please just accept this and make the wait between what I really want to do shorter.
Mr.ESC @ Dec 24th 2007 12:53PM
Actually it was a great demo,it kind of remind me of Midtown madness.
The only problem with the demo is that running around finding events is not really that fun but you have the liberty to explore whatever you want.A quick race menu would erase all that and leave all the fun.
Now why the aftercrash was eliminated? I loved that stuff.
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 25th 2007 10:35PM
I liked the Lost Planet demo, and the Crackdown demo made people want to buy Crackdown not just for the Halo 3 demo (in fact, people continued to buy Crackdown after the Halo 3 demo had expired.)
It wasn't this year, but the Dead Rising demo made people want to buy the full game.
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 25th 2007 10:38PM
Oh, and Saints Row. I couldn't stop playing the demo til the game came out.
Rubix42 @ Dec 24th 2007 10:36AM
Bioshock is by far the best demo of the year. Burnout is just another stinking sequel, like the industry needs more retreads anyways.
SoulBlade @ Dec 24th 2007 1:36PM
yea.. i mean Halo 3.. jeez what a waste of a sequel.
Rubix42 @ Dec 24th 2007 1:49PM
umm, yeah, I think Halo 3 was a waste of a sequel. They should have finished Halo 2 and not given a game a cliffhanger ending. And this is coming from someone who plays Halo 3 often, like 4 nights a week. Just because it is a good game doesn't mean that it should have been made.
I can't wait to see what Bungie will come up with next now that they aren't locked in by Micorsoft anymore.
Honestly, the best games I've played this year are original IP's, and there have been a bunch of good ones. Mass Effect, Bioshock, Crackdown, Overlord, Heavenly Sword (short but very good) Everyday Shooter, flOw to name a few. I mean, how many times can I run through Hyrule and get excited about finding a f-ing boomerang?!?!?
Spartacus @ Dec 24th 2007 2:28PM
Uh, you play Halo 4 nights a week and you think the game shouldn't have been made? I'd hate to know how many days a week you play a game that you actually enjoy...
SoulBlade @ Dec 24th 2007 2:33PM
Unfortunately, games are a business first. Companies milk IPs that sell well. Expect a Bioshock sequel (which is arguably a System Shock spinoff/sequel), and other Mass Effect titles.
Halo needed to be made - it singlehandedly brought massive amounts of money to MS's xbox division and actually helped bring them to their first term of profit. Think of the millions of prepubescent boys who wouldn't have their next gen Haloz ;) I personally think the series is overrated (aside from the 1st one's co-op mode), but I think I'm in a minority on that one.
I do like new IPs, but the really good ones are too few and far between - so many go ignored (beyond good and evil, viewtiful joe, etc). And when they get good responses, sequels just start getting pumped out. I certainly loved God of War 2, and I still get giddy whenever I hear the Zelda chime in a new game.
Rubix42 @ Dec 24th 2007 2:42PM
Let me be clear, I do enjoy sequels, I just wish we had a bigger IP to sequel ratio. Halo is a very good game, and I enjoy it greatly, but I would love to see more original games like Odin Sphere, or the upcoming No More Heroes.
But another Bioshock? Why? The game is solid, and stands on it's own. Why wouldn't Ken Levine make a new game, and advertise it as from the creators of Bioshock. Start earning developer recognition in the mainstream, and all your games will sell well. Even if they are all original IP's. Mass Effect sold 200k in one week and it was exclusive. Bioshock is 1.5 million. They did a tremendous job of marketing these games and it shows.
Take a page from Suda, he may not generate the most sales, but his games are all fantastic, and he doesn't need to create sequel after sequel.
SoulBlade @ Dec 24th 2007 3:31PM
I agree with your sentiment, and I would love a better new IP to sequel ratio, but it's just way too easy for a business to milk a solid title.
They could make a Bioshock 2, which would basically market itself, or they could make a new game, and have to do a little bit more to express that the game came from the same guys who did the original Bioshock. Any for profit business would just milk it and go the easy sure fire seller route.
roxxxo @ Dec 24th 2007 10:55AM
i've played a bunch of demos this year, but i won't even bother trying this one out, given the complaints and the dev arrogance. plus, car games aren't my thing
Bootes @ Dec 24th 2007 11:07AM
I've seen nothing but praise for this game, except for a few people that don't seem to like open worlds.
LordPaul @ Dec 24th 2007 11:12AM
typical case of the whiners being louder than the praisers - I've not put it down since I got the demo & will be buying the full game (on the PS3 cos side to side it's better than the 360)
>>also makes sure to point out that feedback on the demo will in no way affect the final game, as work on Paradise has already wrapped up. Good to know Criterion's open to constructive criticism, eh?
That makes no sense - he's just saying that even if there was criticism they can't do owt about it as it's gone gold.
Scott Jon Siegel @ Dec 24th 2007 11:35AM
I understand not being able to take criticism into account if the game has already gone gold, but there *is* such a thing as patching a game after (or even before) release. No game developer can afford to turn a deaf ear to consumers these days. There have been plenty of cases in the past year of developers updating games to address problems. Criterion needs to learn that their job doesn't end once the game has finished, and their grand vision for Paradise might not gel with the community.
Regardless of Criterion's attitude problem, Paradise still looks hot as hell. If I had a 360 or PS3, I'd be picking it up day one. LOVE the Burnout series.
ManekiNeko @ Dec 24th 2007 11:14AM
So, we know how to switch off DJ Atomica, but how do you turn off the smug douche who MADE the game?
This is the most infuriatingly cavalier and arrogant response to the concerns of gamers I've ever read. Hey Alex, if Criterion is so infallible, then why do they spend so much time coming up with new play mechanics that they unceremoniously dump from the series a year later? How long did the point multipliers from Burnout 3 last? Or the traffic checking and golf meter from Burnout Revenge?
It's clear that your design team DOES make mistakes, sir, and the sandbox gameplay of Burnout Paradise is your biggest mistake yet. Fortunately, we'll see it mysteriously vanish from the next game in the series, just like all of Criterion's OTHER dumb design decisions.
Then you'll pretend it never happened and hype up the next idiotic, game-breaking concept in Burnout: Flaming Wreck. "Look, now your car can FLY! Isn't that awesome?!" No, Alex. Nothing you do is awesome. Not since you bent over for the EA meat train.
CB @ Dec 24th 2007 4:14PM
Stick it to the man!
bigsofty @ Dec 24th 2007 11:19AM
This games is BORING... they are all too similar... they shoulda stopped at the 1st one...
gnugeek @ Dec 24th 2007 11:20AM
It's depressing watching my all time favorite racing series get completely ruined like this. In my opinion, Burnout 3 was the height of the series. I didn't enjoy 4 as much as 3, but the ability to play it on Xbox Live did make up for some of what I didn't like about it, and overall, it was good, just.. not Burnout 3.
"Burnout Paradise" shouldn't be allowed to carry the Burnout name. Burnout is about holding down the accelerator and mashing the boost button non stop by yelling in glee until you explode. It's not about going to gas stations.
Orenthol James Simpson @ Dec 24th 2007 11:34AM
People complaining about the game make me think of the retarded kid in the Fensler Film short about Porkchop sandwiches.
"Detect no goin you tell me do things I don't.. RUNNIN!".
"NEW THINGS AM HURT MY HEAD DOODLE!" *continues to push controller into forehead"
Os @ Dec 24th 2007 11:37AM
My girlfriend loves Burnout Revenge. LOVES. In fact it the reason I have an xbox 360 (well officially my son does). She absolutley hates the new gameplay. I tried to stick up for it abit and encouraged her to try and get used to it but she has had enough and pretty much banned the house of ever talking about it again. Looking back at the times I have played the demo I gotta say I starting to side with her. Shit - load screens? Since when have they become taboo? I just played portal pretty much all they way through with heaps of load screens but the game kicks ass so I coudn't care less. In fact it lets my brain get have moment to recover.
Paradise looks fucking cool no doubt but I think they overcooked this xmas turkey.
Correction : They didn't even have it ready Xmas. What the fuck is that about ????
Om
Crazy88 @ Dec 24th 2007 11:41AM
I have always been a huge fan of Burnout but I have mixed feelings about this new game. The developers should have left the option open for the gamer, because "we" play the game, to determine if want to explore or just RACE. It would have been nice to have the open world environment with the option to skip it. They did not have to create "tracks" as we used to know, but give us an option to jump across the map. Driving back equals a lot of wasted time.
JakubK666 @ Dec 24th 2007 12:10PM
100% Agree...what the fuck was wrong with the pda-teleport system a la NFS:Most Wanted? If I want to drive to my races I can do that...then again if I hate it then I might as well just pick the race and get teleported there!
This is probably going to be the reason why I won't be picking up Paradise. Once original mechanics become cliched as developers start using them in every single game! I remember God of War having SSS(Simon Says Sequences) now pretty much EVERY SINGLE BLOOD GAME HAS THEM!
Guys you don't need an SSS in every f*ucking action game and you don't need a f*ucking free roam in every new racing game. Majority of this s*it is what spoils your f*cking game, in case you're going to be wandering why the f*cking sales are dropping!
PS:Uff, feel better now :)
roxxxo @ Dec 24th 2007 2:19PM
fyi you don't need to censor fuck or any other fuckin word here
Burnt Meatloaf @ Dec 25th 2007 12:48AM
@JakubK666: Good grief, that annoyed the hell out of me in NFS: Underground.
If you have to drive to events, why not turn the drive into some kind of minigame for bonus points? "Yo! Smash every fire hydrant in less than two minutes and get a free Snoopy vs Red Baron door decal!"
If you're going to do st*pid sh*t, you might as well do stupid shit.