HD DVD group cancels pre-CES press conference
In a mass email to CES attendees, a representative for the group said they are "currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps." If these "next steps" don't include lining the pockets of every remaining film publisher on the market to convince them your format's still viable, HD DVD could go the way of the Betamax with a quickness.
(Via PS3F)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
OMGOMG @ Jan 5th 2008 6:33PM
Hey old news. How's it goin'?
jackbauer @ Jan 5th 2008 6:54PM
It's been good. Just coming back from your mom's house.
Silver R. Wolfe @ Jan 5th 2008 10:05PM
I've come to watch your flowers growin'!
Ain't you got no rhymes for me? Doo doo doo, feelin' groovy!
Tiptup300 @ Jan 5th 2008 10:48PM
Someone help cuz he just got BUUUUUURN'd
Ally @ Jan 5th 2008 6:34PM
Ouch!
tmacairjordan87 @ Jan 5th 2008 6:36PM
and the nail in that coffin keeps getting deeper and deeper. If i'm microsoft i'm staying the hell away from hd-dvd for the 360 cause at this rate there wont be any damn movies to play.
jynxycat @ Jan 5th 2008 6:37PM
"and, as result, sister company New Line Cinema's similarly adopted format loyalty"
Not true. They're under their own heading, as to which formats to produce movies for. Straight from Warner Bros. mouth.
Edog Lost @ Jan 5th 2008 6:53PM
I work for newline. We're going Blu-Ray. I just got an HD DVD player for Xmas. SO LAME.
Shoot'em Up. Just released on Blu-Ray, and soon you will see the Lord Of the Rings going blue.
name123 @ Jan 5th 2008 7:46PM
"Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well."
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978461.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1&query=blu%2Dray
Myke @ Jan 5th 2008 6:40PM
Things are not looking too good on the HD-DVD front. Kind of a bummer too.
Sam @ Jan 5th 2008 6:44PM
Can't believe sony is looking to win a media format war.
First?
ymmv @ Jan 6th 2008 12:03AM
Ever heard of the CD? Co-developed by Sony and Philips. Has been rather successful from what I've heard ...
Osiris @ Jan 5th 2008 6:48PM
This is misleading. according to this web site
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070611-hd-dvd-sales-spike-in-wake-of-price-cuts.html
HD-DVD stand alone sales more then doubled Blu-ray players. So any of this news you can take with a grain of salt. There are too many players out there for the HDDVD side for them just to drop it. Not to mention all the money the stuidos have put in it.
Christian @ Jan 5th 2008 6:56PM
Who cares about the numbers for 'stand alone' players? The number of PS3 machines out there gives Blu-Ray an incredible advantage in numbers. Just because you don't like your media systems converging doesn't mean other consumers share your view.
HD-DVD proponents trying to make their dismal numbers look better by trying to define players in a way that allows them to disregard the PS3 in relation to Blu-Ray is just sad to watch.
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 6:59PM
The problem is the PS3 isn't a good justification for who takes the market dominance. How many PS2s make up the worldwide DVD player market? Very small.
This isn't close to over yet. A third of the movie industry is still behind HD-DVD.
Ally @ Jan 5th 2008 7:06PM
Major flaw in your argument here, sure there might be more players out here but what use is that if there arent any movies?
Mromson @ Jan 5th 2008 7:45PM
No one cares for stand alone player sales. The companies care for movie sales, and in that, Blu-ray is dominating by a clear margin.
cc123 @ Jan 5th 2008 7:59PM
@LaughingTarget
Your really, really, really, getting pathetic now...
@Osiris
1. Your link is from June
2. Even if it still held true, it doesn't matter.
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 8:15PM
And why do you think that? If the PS3 market reaches even 50 million, and it is the major component of the BluRay market, the movie studios are better off just dropping high def entirely and sticking with direct download. There are more DVD players in the US than there are PS2s in the world.
The stand-alone players will be the determination of who, if anyone, actually "wins" this format war. Video game systems are always going to be the me-too of the format, not the spearhead. How about giving those hearts back, eh?
cc123 @ Jan 5th 2008 8:26PM
Because HDDVD got trampled in NA even with cheap players being sold at Walmart and big movies on its side like Transformers. And NA is actually the region where its doing the best! BD is doing even better in Europe and HDVD might as well not even exist in Japan.
It was losing the war (by alot) BEFORE this Warner/New Line announcement. Now it doesn't have a prayer.
"How about giving those hearts back, eh?"
Why? Your second comment is just as stupid as the first one. No reason to buy an HDDVD standalone when the vast majority of movies won't be coming out for them, eh?
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 8:33PM
There is nothing vast about it. 1/3 of the support is still solid and exclusive HD-DVD. DIVX had roughly the same 2/3 studio support with the same claims of victory. Do you have a DIVX machine under your TV right now? Thought so. There are plenty of HD-DVD titles being released. There aren't tumbleweeds rolling down the HD-DVD aisle yet. The PS3 is the key reason the BluRay players are top dog and HD-DVD stand-alone players are still doing better than BluRay stand-alone in the US. America accounts for, with exception of the major blockbusters, around three quarters of the movie sales for these major studios, victory in Japan and Europe aren't major qualifiers. There is no winner yet, not by a long shot.
Someone still owes me a few up-votes.
cc123 @ Jan 5th 2008 8:51PM
Are you talking about Digital Video Express?? The thing where you rent a disc and get to watch it for 48 hours then you can throw the disc out because you can't use it anymore? The thing that failed miserably in about 6 months of being at market? I must be mistaken because that can't be what your using to backup you "HD-DVD is alive and well" argument.
"There aren't tumbleweeds rolling down the HD-DVD aisle yet."
Your right. Wait till May when Warner/New Line stop making HD-DVDs and when that Paramount contract ends. (if it even takes that long)
You keep saying it has 1/3 studio support but your not mentioning that it was outsold 4 to 1 in NA and that it's most likely going to keep getting worse.
"Someone still owes me a few up-votes."
lol
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 9:03PM
Ya, that very same thing. Disney said almost the same thing about DIVX they did about BluRay. They had all the studios, they had the most exclusive support, everything the BluRay consortium is saying now. Early claim of victory when the war isn't over.
I'm not saying who is going to win, I own both to cover my ass, so I don't care one way or the other. All I'm saying is there are no victory indicators in the Warner move. It is just a repeat of history up to this point and the underdog kicked ass last time around.
License to ill @ Jan 5th 2008 9:04PM
Yeah Im sure betamax owners said the same thing in the early 80's....
cc123 @ Jan 5th 2008 9:20PM
Dude you are using DIVX which is essentially a format specifically made for rentals to argue HD-DVD/Blu-ray precedence. Thats silly.
Quick rundown of DIVX:
1. DIVX required you to buy a new expensive player.
2. It had to be connected to a phone line.
3. You had to go buy a disc from somewhere and you got 48 hours to use it. If you wanted to watch it after the first 48 hours it was another $3.25.
4. DIVX discs had very little extras unlike DVDs and were pan and scan.
Do you know why DIVX fell flat on its face? Because it sucked hairy manballs, thats why.
And it doesn't fit into this argument at all.
Studio support and retail sales are going to decide this "war" and right now the chances of HD-DVD coming back are almost nonexistent.
ark_v2 @ Jan 5th 2008 9:41PM
Wow! I've seen the most unreadable comments I've ever seen here in these last two days. Haha, it's great. I love desesperation posts like these; defending as if the format was his mom.
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 10:01PM
Actually, the format was a good idea, still is. The studios saw the large amounts of money Blockbuster and other rental outlets were raking in and saw a way to bypass that. The vast bulk of movies aren't purchased, but rented. $3.25, which around the same as a rental fee for 48 hours after cracking open the case, which was, at the time, the same amount you got at the rental place, was absolutely loved by the studios. Even various market studies showed that consumers loved the idea. Rent the film and don't bother returning it; just chuck it in the trash.
Studios could get their films in supermarkets, gas station convenience stores and even fast food restaurants and easily move them. Most movies aren't terribly good and don't warrant the purchase. Even major releases aren't purchased by everyone and experience a significant rental market.
The only thing the DVD vs DIVX battle proved was the fact that studio support is not a major factor in a format victory. I still stand by my statement from long ago that both formats will fall flat on their ass. HD has long since stopped being amazing and the only, long term result is I now pay twice as much for movies and DVDs look like shit. There isn't anything going for either format beyond a resulution jump and extra audio clarity, which is evidenced by the fact that both BluRay and HD-DVD sales are pathetic, especially for how long they've been on the market at this point and the marketing money going into the programs. They make decent data storage backups, but external hard drives are cheaper and can be rewritten.
The next real jump will be 3D, not HD.
cc123 @ Jan 5th 2008 10:42PM
DIVX was a horrible idea back then and an even worse one now. It was trying to fill in a niche between renting and owning movies that nobody cared about.
"The only thing the DVD vs DIVX battle proved was the fact that studio support is not a major factor in a format victory."
DIVX could have had 99% of the studio support and it would have still failed. Try explaining to the average person that they have to spends hundreds on a DIVX player that allows them to....uh...rent movies...
DIVX vs DVD has nothing to do with the way HDDVD vs BD played out.
"The next real jump will be 3D, not HD."
Yeah, I'm waiting for my holodeck too.
drsashamd @ Jan 6th 2008 4:22AM
"Someone still owes me a few up-votes."
"How about giving those hearts back, eh?"
I'm sorry, but what kind of tool actually begs to get voted up?
Scooby Doo @ Jan 6th 2008 10:47AM
I don't know whether or not it's good to bring the whole DIVX comparison to the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate but it's an odd one. If anything Blu-Ray is more like DVD's back then and HD-DVD is more like DIVX. The reason being the PS2 pushing DVD's and the PS3 is now pushing Blu-Ray. I'll bet if we asked our fellow Joystiq buddies what their first DVD player was, the vast majority will say the PS2, myself included.
I worked for a firm that put data on CD's at the time both formats came out and I was tasked with analyzing if either was viable for our firm. Anyone who looked at the comparisons between the two and saw how user's didn't realy 'own' the movie with DIVX, you could easily understand which one would win in America. Add the PS2 factor to that and you didn't need to be a fortune teller to see which would win. I don't think studio support for one or the other was a factor at all.
HighFiveJesus @ Jan 5th 2008 6:49PM
Blu Ray does what HD-DVD don't
:)
Phranctoast @ Jan 6th 2008 7:09AM
I don't know how making a genesis/NES joke gets you voted down.......:(
Akamaru @ Jan 6th 2008 8:22PM
I guess people are too young to remember those commercials. +1 for you
maylon @ Jan 5th 2008 7:01PM
Enough already, HDDVD is dead, we know.
Maurice M @ Jan 5th 2008 7:01PM
DIE ALREADY! DIE DIE DIE! One format to rule them all plskthx...
I can almost see the light at the end of this long dark tunnel that is the format war. However, I'm cynical enough to believe MS will find some way to shovel enough money at a company to get another exclusive to draw this out more like they did with Paramount.
Jon Doe. @ Jan 5th 2008 8:32PM
Yah too bad BR rules about as well as Bush with a format that is barely finalized and is still being tweaked, half the players out there don't have the ability to update through Ethernet, the players are double the price of the cheapest HD DVD player. But hey. Who cares about quality when you can be a hard core fanboi.
Stevie @ Jan 5th 2008 7:08PM
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know which one of the two is the best format quality wise? I heard HD-DVD films generally look better because of the fact they use VC-1 encoding by default, but that's something that is supported by Blu-Ray as well.
Can anyone shed some light on this, and possibly provide any links? Cheers guys.
Spiza @ Jan 5th 2008 8:07PM
The video quality will be basically the same on both sides. The video codecs are the same. The only real difference in the formats is that blu-ray has more GB per layer and it requires a hard disc coating that makes it hard to damage a disc. Just like with DVD, you will see discs out there with bad encodes. Many early BDs used MPEG2 which was pretty poor.
beholdapalehorse @ Jan 5th 2008 7:15PM
Blue-ray movies for the win..., who fuckin cares. Heres an idea how about some blue-ray fuckin games to warrant the purchase of a PS3, you know since it's supposed to be a GAMING machine. If I want HD movies I can download them off of XBL and rather quickly contrary to what some of you would expect (or lie about) It's either that or wait another year or 2 for Sony to give me a reason to buy a PS3 for it's games rather than all the tech bullshit they talk.
But hey, fuck it, enjoy your copy of "shootem up" only on Blue-ray bitches!
ill trooper @ Jan 5th 2008 9:31PM
...so if you're so concerned about gaming, why did you bother with a post about movie studio format choices?
Tom @ Jan 6th 2008 8:03PM
@ill trooper
"...so if you're so concerned about gaming, why did you bother with a post about movie studio format choices?"
Is that questioned aimed at beholdapalehorse or at the Joystiq bloggers who for some reason keep blogging about the format war?
Bucket @ Jan 5th 2008 7:29PM
POSTPWNED!
jackbauer @ Jan 5th 2008 7:54PM
hahahaha. nice.
Figboy @ Jan 5th 2008 7:32PM
to Stevie:
personally, i think *BOTH formats have fantastic video quality.
as for audio, it depends on the movies. sometimes HD DVD movies have superior audio, sometimes Blu Ray, but for the most part, the audio of both is superb.
i own a PS3, therefore i own Blu Ray movies, but i don't think HD DVD was a "bad" format. not by a long shot.
the deciding factor for me, were twofold:
first and foremost - since the beginning, Blu Ray had the most support. Sony, Fox, and Disney have a lot of major hits from the past 10 years. those movies would be exclusive to Blu Ray.
at the time, Paramount was neutral, as was Warner. Universal was the only studio exclusively supporting HD DVD.
i decided that i'd throw my money behind Blu Ray, because it was simple logistics that, in the end, Blu Ray would have more movies than HD DVD, so the quality of both formats wasn't a deciding factor (since both are fantastic quality)
second, the PS3 i purchased in February of 07 had a built in Blu Ray drive, making the decision even *EASIER. once i got my HDTV a few months later (a 40" Samsung 720p), i started to buy movies on Blu Ray (until then, i was just playing PS3 games; yes, it did have those too, even back then).
but yeah, back to your original question; both HD DVD and Blu Ray support the VC-1 codec, so there shouldn't be a problem with video quality. you'll see a lot of biased reviews on the net trying to spot differences where there, honestly, aren't any, but their minimal.
Casino Royale and Pirates of the Caribbean, for example, look *GREAT on Blu Ray, as do Spider-Man 3 and Pixar movies.
early Blu Ray movies used MPEG-2 (like the original release of the Fifth Element), and weren't a very good picture (though not hideous). Sony re-released the Fifth Element with a better video encoding, and let people who purchased the original version exchange it at no cost (maybe they charged for shipping, i don't know).
i think it's safe for you to invest in Blu Ray, if that's what you're getting at.
Stevie @ Jan 5th 2008 8:10PM
Thanks for clarifying that.
I already own a PS3 since launch so I'll be fine. What I was mostly concerned about was the MPEG2 vs VC-1 argument.
Back to the original topic, I think what will be interesting to see is the impact the WB announcement will have on the format war and, if HD-DVD really goes the way of the Betamax, on the console war. I know quite a few people about to buy a PS3 just because of its Blu-Ray capabilities.
I have mixed feeling about Sony shoving an unproven format down everyone's throats, but it looks like they weren't all that crazy in doing so after all...
LaughingTarget @ Jan 5th 2008 8:25PM
From someone who owns both formats, I will have to remind you of the old DIVX vs DVD war. DIVX had the most support back in 1997, but DVD ended up winning in the end. The DIVX support base looked a lot like the BluRay support base does now, less Sony.
Again, studio support is not a good indicator of which format becomes standard in the end. This is far from over, there are no winners yet.
jackbauer @ Jan 5th 2008 7:54PM
Pirates FTW.
Obie @ Jan 5th 2008 8:33PM
ABANDON SHIP!
SAVE YOURSELVES!
Poisoned Al @ Jan 5th 2008 8:57PM
You know I thought HD-DVD would win for the simple fact that old DVD presses could be upgraded to make HD-DVDs. Blu-Ray discs need a whole new press. I guess the studios are just tossing themselves off with glee at Blu-Ray's ultimately useless copy protection.
Brian Fantana @ Jan 5th 2008 8:59PM
I'd rather see HD-DVD win considering I have an HD-DVD player and I think HD-DVD's look better(Had a BD player and returned it). But, I could really give 2 shits who wins. The only people this format war is hurting is the consumer.