Suda 51 clarifies Wii remarks on third-party sales

Shitty Graphics?

THIS IS WII!

*insert way-over used "300" reference*

Thats Suda51's fault, not the Wii's. Take a look at Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy and then try to tell me the lackluster visuals in this game are because of system limitatinos.

It works for the game, though - its not supposed to be a visual wow-er.

mmm... This game looks a lot better than Killer 7, and Killer 7 was awesome... you need to see the game in person, not just in the internet.

Graphics graphics graphics. What ever happened to fun? (I don't actually know if this game is fun, nor do I own a Wii, I just dislike graphics whores) The last thing we need is more visual masterpieces like Lair that suck shit in the gameplay department. Keep your damned graphics.

Who cares? Just so long as it's fun, that should be good enough for a game like this, at least.

i think you need to go back and play some n64.

the graphics were STILL nowhere near that good.
thanks for coming out tho

I don't think they're shitty; more like stylized.

When 4ColorRebellion reviewed the title, the reviewer did complain that the graphics were certainly not pushing the Wii hardware, but they fitted in with Suda 51's stylized world. The graphics are rough-around-the-edges, much like the game itself

Ergo, it's more the this kind of stylized graphics lends itself to being blockier, the game would've looked "bad" whatever console it had been on

Draw Distance is a more legitimate concern in this game, i've heard, though

The graphics are not bad at all. That's just the game's style.

Haha, I'd much rather have these graphics than the super-shiny-super-bloom drivel that's becoming the next-gen standard. I just wish that the game didn't have the draw-in issues and had more places to explore.

Limitatinos is the coolest sounding spelling error I have ever seen. It seems like something an Italian would say.

"Mama Mia! There are-a too many-a Limitatinos on-a how I can-a type-a like-a dis!"

When the fuck will some of you 12 year old idiots learn to look at more than just polygon count and texture resolution?

I bet, if some of you kids were born in the 19th century, you'd look at the impressionism movement and go all "LOL THAT LOOKS TOTALLY CRAPPY LOOK AT HOW THEY DIDN'T RENDER EVERY DETAIL!!!"

Grow the fuck up. Please.

"LOL THAT LOOKS TOTALLY CRAPPY LOOK AT HOW THEY DIDN'T RENDER EVERY DETAIL!!!"

Dude, I say that NOW.

/not an art critic

I hope I'm missing the sarcasm. Forgive me if I am.

The graphics look cool to me... i love the stylized look!

And in Noember or September, the Wii managed to outsell the 360 in software sales too...

Let me quote him again.

"Suda 51 said, "Whilst the sales weren't as high as I hoped, other titles for Wii aren't selling so well either. Only Nintendo titles are doing well,"

"When third party developers make games with Nintendo quality, they will sell a lot.

If they want to sell the same amount that Nintendo sells, they need to start making good games"

Does No More Heroes not qualify as a very good game? It seems to be getting pretty good reviews.

Also since when are 3rd party games as good as first party games on ANY system? The Wii is turning into another Nintendo system that people buy to play Nintendo games. Great for Nintendo awful for third parties, stop making freaking excuses for it.

And stop bringing the PS3 into your retarded argument. The PS3 has been having crappy first party sales and pretty good third party sales.

"Also since when are 3rd party games as good as first party games on ANY system? The Wii is turning into another Nintendo system that people buy to play Nintendo games. Great for Nintendo awful for third parties, stop making freaking excuses for it."

He's right, though...more or less. How many games were on the N64, Gamecube or Wii that were as polished and perfected as a Nintendo game? Hardly any! Resident Evil 4 and Viewtiful Joe were really the only notable 3rd party titles that weren't spin-offs or remakes...on the GC, at least. N64 had it far worse.
And it's worth pointing out that Resident Evil 4 sold better on the GC, in the sense that given the PS2's install base, it only sold about a million more copies.

Third party games with that level of polish DO exist, of course. Final Fantasy, MGS, Kingdom Hearts, all spring quickly to mind.


Just because great games do exist doesn't mean people will buy them, though. There are a lot of factors involved in making such games a success...especially when it's a new series or if it's a series new to a particular console, even.
Why publishers and gamers seem to expect Nintendo owners to just buy their fucking games, regardless of whether or not they're awful, is beyond me. Such expectations don't exist for the competition.

"He's right, though...more or less. How many games were on the N64, Gamecube or Wii that were as polished and perfected as a Nintendo game?"

Like you just said those games are very few and far between. But my point is that you can't place those lofty expectations on third parties because it just doesn't happen very often on any of the systems. Yet on the 360 and PS3 the 3rd party sales are healthy even with games that don't match the quality of the first party line-up.

On the Wii, if its a Nintendo game and/or has Mario on the cover it will sell great regardless of whether its good or bad. And if its a third party game it will most likely bomb whether its good or bad. I know there are exceptions to this but a pattern is starting to form and Suda isn't the first to mention it.

"But my point is that you can't place those lofty expectations on third parties because it just doesn't happen very often on any of the systems. Yet on the 360 and PS3 the 3rd party sales are healthy even with games that don't match the quality of the first party line-up."

But...lesser quality games on the PS3/360 DON'T usually sell very well, either. How many people bought Bullet Witch or timeShift?
The difference is that nearly ALL the 3rd party offerings Nintendo has been getting for years now has been of Bullet Witch quality, usually.
You're right that this results in placing unfair, lofty expectations on GOOD 3rd party Nintendo games, though...but that's more to do with those good games a diamond amidst a sea of crap. So if for whatever reason, the game doesn't sell, people just assume that it's because people only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's games.
I just don't buy that, chief.

Personally, I think that part of this stigma comes from the fact that Nintendo folks seemingly aren't into sports games. So when people see Madden flop on the Wii or GC, they assume it's because Mario isn't in it. As for the casual audience on the Wii, I don't think they even know what the Hell Madden is.

If they start releasing some big budget, major games on the Wii that aren't spin offs or ports, they'll probably see sales of the game.

"But...lesser quality games on the PS3/360 DON'T usually sell very well, either. How many people bought Bullet Witch or timeShift?"

I was referring to games of decent quality not extremes like the ones you just mentioned. When good third party games come out for the Wii and bomb spectacularly the blame is still placed on the 3rd party for some other reason. Blame never gets placed on Nintendo and the way they market their system.

"people just assume that it's because people only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's games.
I just don't buy that, chief. "

I guess we'll just have to believe different things cause the way I see it Nintendo could give a crap about third parties and just pushes its own products. Sony and MS were pushing a lot of the third party games this holiday season and spreading awareness of them. What did Nintendo do for its 3rd parties who put exclusives on its console? I must have missed it...

But they have increased awareness of their own products to the point where you slap the name Mario on a shitty Olympics game and bam! multimillion seller.

"Sony and MS were pushing a lot of the third party games this holiday season and spreading awareness of them."

Name one way. They didn't do a thing. Microsoft wasn't advertising Guitar Hero III or Rock Band. They don't even (likely) pay for ads for games like Bioshock. It's NOT Nintendo's or anyone else's responsibility to pay for the advertising of other people's games.

So how were MS and Sony "supporting" them? I hear this line a lot but I've never seen it followed up with an example.
It is very, VERY rare that a console manufacturer goes out of it's way to promote another company's game. They have their own first party games to promote. It's one thing if they have some money of their own invested in the game, a la Sony and FFVII or, presumably, MS and GTA4. But even THEN that isn't because they're "supporting" them. They made a freakin' deal with them. "You do this for us and we'll help you out with this" kind of stuff.
Why do you think, for example, that COD4 was largely perceived as a 360 game?

"Name one way. They didn't do a thing. Microsoft wasn't advertising Guitar Hero III or Rock Band."

I'll name a couple:

Microsoft's conference at E3 was full of third party game presentations. Peter Moore played Rock Band with the developers on stage! Sony's had them too just not as much. Nintendo's focused on sales figures, their own games, and Wii Fit. Did they even mention that 3rd parties existed?

MS and Sony are doing/have done special bundles featuring third party games. Nintendo?

During the fall Sony unleashed a blitz of new commercials with that morphing PS3 thing, and a lot of them showed off 3rd party games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XqEhy_z6as

MS did a lot of that too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rJQ7OR1seY&feature=related

Nintendo had some 3rd party games in their commercials but to a much MUCH smaller extent than the other two.

"So how were MS and Sony "supporting" them? I hear this line a lot but I've never seen it followed up with an example. "

See above.

"It is very, VERY rare that a console manufacturer goes out of it's way to promote another company's game."

Your wrong. You probably just didn't notice it since your preferred company doesn't do it much or gives a shit about third parties in general.

"They made a freakin' deal with them. "You do this for us and we'll help you out with this" kind of stuff. "

Yeah and the end result is still a heightened awareness for 3rd party games on Sony and MS consoles.

And I'll debunk a couple.

"Microsoft's conference at E3 was full of third party game presentations. Peter Moore played Rock Band with the developers on stage! Sony's had them too just not as much. Nintendo's focused on sales figures, their own games, and Wii Fit. Did they even mention that 3rd parties existed?"

Sony wasn't exactly 3rd party central either. Really, that's all one needs to say about that.
But Nintendo's October press conference thing (where they announced Sonic in Brawl) was fairly heavy on 3rd party news, too...most newsworthy being Monster Hunter.
Companies use shows like E3 to highlight certain things. Sony and Nintendo highlighted what they had for THEIR systems. MS didn't need to do that...especially since all they really had coming up was Halo 3 in the near future.


"During the fall Sony unleashed a blitz of new commercials with that morphing PS3 thing, and a lot of them showed off 3rd party games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XqEhy_z6as "

So did Nintendo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWUoTw6e6pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkS2DJ6VX_g&feature=related


As far as bundles go, Nintendo has never done that. Maybe they should have in the past (RE4+GC, for example), but it would be stupid as all Hell for them to do such a thing now.



"Yeah and the end result is still a heightened awareness for 3rd party games on Sony and MS consoles."

Actually, Sony's 3rd party sales are pretty much in the shitter these days, too. Rock Band and Guitar Hero spring quickest to mind.

Furthermore, when you boil it all down, this hardly qualifies as meaningful support, when you get right down to it. None of the ads you or I just showed highlighted the actual games. They used the games for texture, but they were hardly advertising the actual titles.

Of the examples given, the most meaningful one was Microsoft at E3, as that makes the business and financial news which in turn gets filtered down to retailers.

I'm not saying Nintendo has good relationships with 3rd party developers. I'm not sure how available they make themselves to most studios if they need help with the hardware. I've heard good and bad about Nintendo AND Sony in that regard.

Nintendo HAS almost completely dropped any sort of standards for what games can go on the Wii, though. Really, that's probably the most meaningful thing they in particular could have done, given their past high standards.

The point is that Nintendo is about as supportive of 3rd parties as the competition, more or less. These are standard business practices.
The reason you likely don't see and have never seen as much of it coming from Nintendo is because...what the HELL is there to support?!

Put a game of MGS4, GTA4, FFXIII, KH3 or Bioshock quality on the Wii and I'll bet you money Nintendo highlights it at the next E3.

I'm sick of arguing about this cause its like arguing with a brick wall so I'm just going to say a few last things.

"Sony wasn't exactly 3rd party central either. Really, that's all one needs to say about that."

They had a hell of a lot more 3rd party presence than Nintendo did. Don't try to put them on the same level.

"As far as bundles go, Nintendo has never done that. Maybe they should have in the past (RE4+GC, for example), but it would be stupid as all Hell for them to do such a thing now."

Yeah heaven forbid they help out a third party while their system is popular.

"Actually, Sony's 3rd party sales are pretty much in the shitter these days, too."

Uhm no, before you say something like this look up sales for COD4, AC, Pro Evo, Fifa, Madden.

"Furthermore, when you boil it all down, this hardly qualifies as meaningful support, when you get right down to it. None of the ads you or I just showed highlighted the actual games. They used the games for texture, but they were hardly advertising the actual titles."

You've got to be kidding me...advertising 3rd party games in your own commercials that are airing every 30 secs is not meaningful...Gotcha.

"The point is that Nintendo is about as supportive of 3rd parties as the competition, more or less."

We must be following different game industries because this statement sounds delusional to me.

"The reason you likely don't see and have never seen as much of it coming from Nintendo is because...what the HELL is there to support?!"

Like we said before they are few but they are there. Nintendo still doesn't do anything.

"And I'll debunk a couple."

You didn't really debunk anything. You tried to downplay the examples I gave and give importance to the only big thing Nintendo did for a third party all year.

"Put a game of MGS4, GTA4, FFXIII, KH3 or Bioshock quality on the Wii and I'll bet you money Nintendo highlights it at the next E3."

I really doubt it...

Samfish-

I am a huge Nintendo Fanboy- HOWEVER, I buy games based on the game, not if Nintendo made it.

I bought Zack and Wiki- which is a fantastic game, but it did bad. Nintendo doesn't help third party games.

I will also buy No More Heroes. It looks fantastic- even though the overword is supposed to be blah.

It'll get lukewarm-to-shitty reviews, sell like crap, then get discounted to all hell. Two years from now, people will wax nostalgic on internet message boards on how it ruled and e-bay prices will skyrocket.

Meanwhile Burnout will sell a bijillion copies and get straight 10s everywhere.

Gametrailers.com gave it a pretty good review.

An 8.2 from Gametrailers... =)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29844.html

Isn't an 8.2 like total shit?

Well Shagi, 8.2 is like the average for PS3 games, so I guess you are right.

It's been hitting in the range from 80% all the way to 95%

A swing and a ZING for Fernando!

8.2 is not a bad score. Example: Assassin's Creed got a lot of 7s and low 8s and I personally think it is a pretty good game, just not for everyone. Kind of like this one.

A 90 score here...

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2008/01/20/4cr-review-no-more-heroes/

it's the internet, anything under 9 is total shit.

87% metacritic based on 6 reviews, the highest is NGamer UK (94) and the lowest is IGN (76).

X-Play also gave No More Heroes a 5 out of 5.

We are not?

So, what about Zelda, SSBB, Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, and soon, Mario Kart Wii, Star Fox...