Calculating the Virtual Console's savings rate
by Kyle Orland 
{ Jan 31st 2008 at 2:00PM }
Obviously, owning games on the Wii Virtual Console is a lot more convenient than having dozens of cartridges for a variety of classic systems laying around the house. But does it make fiscal sense as well as organizational sense? To find out, the folks at Vintage Computing & Gaming compared the price of current Virtual Console selections to the going rate for the same classic carts on eBay.The results, unsurprisingly, showed an average savings of about 50 percent over the eBay price across the VC library. Sure, you're paying a few extra dollars for ultra-common clunkers like Double Dribble, but you're saving nearly $200 on ultra-rare games like Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure. In fact, Turbo-Grafx fans can save roughly 75% buying their library on the Wii rather than eBay.
Of course, as VC&G points out, games bought for the Virtual Console have functionally zero resale value, so those interested in collectability should shell out the extra money. Those interested in actually playing the games, however ...
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Nigeria @ Jan 31st 2008 2:08PM
Is Kirby SuperStar coming to Virtual Console anytime soon? Or should I just download the rom and experience nostalgia through my PC screen.
BrokenTriforce @ Jan 31st 2008 2:24PM
Always d/l the roms. VC is a ripoff. I already have the original game or the rom of every worthwhile title they've released....
Which isn't too much when you consider only 3 are released per week, with an average of 1 good game every 2 weeks.
TroutNinja @ Jan 31st 2008 2:27PM
Translation: Why buy something if you can steal it.
SimonBob @ Jan 31st 2008 2:33PM
Because VC games have sharpened graphics and tightened controls that even the best emulators can't quite live up to? Don't get me wrong, I'm as hep to the rom scene as any gamer who's been frustrated by a seventy dollar pricetag on an SNES RPG, but there's no way I'm going to make my friends hunch over a crowded keyboard when we want to get some head-to-head Blades of Steel action happening.
WiNG @ Jan 31st 2008 2:39PM
"there's no way I'm going to make my friends hunch over a crowded keyboard when we want to get some head-to-head Blades of Steel action happening."
100% PC compatibility for XBox360 controller... FTW
Co @ Jan 31st 2008 2:48PM
Ok WiNG, 24" Computer screen and a couple of chairs, or 42" LCD TV and a couple of couches? Hmmm.....
Me @ Jan 31st 2008 3:11PM
OR a computer with TV-Out on that LCD TV.
kbomb1upc @ Jan 31st 2008 3:17PM
Or a Modded Xbox
Vidikron (FU) @ Jan 31st 2008 3:18PM
"Because VC games have sharpened graphics and tightened controls that even the best emulators can't quite live up to?"
That's actually completely false. Best emulators can do far and away more than what's currently available on the VC. I've got dozens of emulators on my original modded Xbox and most can scale the games to HD, apply various filters, have many save states, gameshark/codebreaker code compatibility, the ability to created your own codes, can "fast forward" (speed up)games, and can even rewind the games. Hell, some of the emulators can even add online play to 2-player games. All that on my Xbox with no hunching over a keyboard necessary.
Of course, all that doesn't dismiss the legal issues with emulators. VC is a decent service, but your statement about emulators is simply false.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Jan 31st 2008 3:27PM
All those filters introduce a a/v/control delay. Its miliseconds long, but if you're into speedrunning, that kind of delay will completely throw off your game.
VC introduces little to no delay on scaling to your monitor.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2008 3:36PM
Those filters don't add any delay Crono if your PC can handle them. Remember, these games are being throttled to run at the speed they originally ran at. That means that the CPU has lots of time left over to do other things, such as applying filters.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Jan 31st 2008 3:42PM
No, trust me. They do. A dual core athlon with a gig of memory and a 7600gt is plenty of HP, but I still got slight but noticeable delay.
ANY time you add extra layers of processing, something has to get delayed.
Markez @ Jan 31st 2008 4:00PM
Playing old NES/SNES, whatever console games, on your PC is one of the absolute lamest things I've ever heard of.
Vidikron (FU) @ Jan 31st 2008 4:18PM
@Crono
But you'll likely get MORE delay with your Wii running VC games if using them on an HDTV since they only run 480p. Just Google up "HDTV lag". The lag can be largely negated by scaling the game internally to HD (as emulators do). Besides, those filters are completely optional.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Jan 31st 2008 4:27PM
Yes, I wasn't disagreeing with you. An emulator is still better than the VC as far as options go.
I have a friend who speedruns super metroid (0:34 is his best time), and he's the one who pointed out the delay on my original HDTV (hooked directly with an SNES), an emulator, which was slightly better with no filters, and the Wii VC. The VC had the least amount of delay of all 3, to the point that he does his speed running on it over his SNES.
Vidikron (FU) @ Jan 31st 2008 4:41PM
Interesting. I'm not into speed runs, so it doesn't matter much to me. I also don't really care for the filters in most cases. I just really love my original Xbox with all its emulators. It's the only last gen in my main entertainment center for that reason alone. It emulates so many classic systems near perfect.
Emulators are definitely a gray area at best (only if you even own the game), but I just have a hard time finding value in the VC titles. Not only because of the emulator option, but simply because they don't have the extras that games on XBLA have for the same price. In most cases, the games I would be interested in owning on the VC I still own or did own back when I had the system. I find it hard to justify the rather pricey VC games when there's nothing "new". On XBLA I can shoot for achievements or maybe get some good online play... or in the case of a game like the upcoming Bionic Commando, get some nice graphical updates. Although, admittedly, many of the XBLA graphical touch-ups look like they just have a crappy filter applied... but some games have nice changes and the original graphics are always an option too. The VC simply comes off as a cheap cash grab by Nintendo... to me anyway.
bm @ Feb 1st 2008 3:23AM
Oh ok, but how about the fact that almost all of those filters looks like COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT?
Yeah, that first statement saying VC games had "tightened controls and sharper graphics" was a bit stupid seeing how there have been no changes to the games at all.
But most of the filters on emulators are completely horrible, and warp the games' original graphics in retarded ways. OH BUT ITS HD LOL! A turd is still a turd even in 1080p (and I'm talking about the filters, not the sprites themselves). Some people don't seem to understand this.
The only filter that looks halfway decent is the NTSC mode, which, ironically, simulates a CRT TV. Which is what VC games look best on.
Rich @ Jan 31st 2008 2:15PM
Since I've never owned/played a TurboGrafx or Neo-Geo, I'm not that familiar with their games. What's currently on the VC that's worth a look?
I'm pretty much a fan of anything, except the Street Fighter-type games...
Mr Khan @ Jan 31st 2008 3:35PM
Then all i'd recommend from Neo Geo is Magician Lord. TG16 has too much goodness to get into, such as Bomberman 93, the 3 Bonk titles. The best shmups in history, Devil's Crush and Alien Crush, etc, etc
Rich @ Feb 1st 2008 2:25PM
Thanks Khan, I'll check those out....Khan....
KHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANN!!
(sorry couldn't resist)
Kendall B @ Jan 31st 2008 2:20PM
It's so hard for me to get excited about the virtual console for the very fact that I have a wall full of cartridges.
Paviel @ Jan 31st 2008 2:27PM
That is perfectly understandable, and nobody in their right mind thinks any less of you for that. But keep in mind that most people DON'T have a wall full of cartridges, and the VC is great for them, though obviously less so for people who do.
Markez @ Jan 31st 2008 2:20PM
Agh gad, this just reminds me and irritates me all over again about people who just whine and whine and whine about the VC costs and act all offended that they have to pay SOOO much money to buy them.
The horror, I'm going to go huddle into a ball in my closet and wait for this wicked case of the cold sweats and mania to go away... Then, maybe some Ice Hockey with a team full of fat guys.
343 Guilty Fart @ Jan 31st 2008 2:50PM
I think what annoys me about the cost is that some of these games should be practically free. Super Mario Bros., geez at this point Nintendo should just let you download it free to at least give Wii owners a taste of what the VC is about. Even the 360 gives you a Hexic for free.
I think any original release NES game (anything listed in the old 'Official Nintendo Player's Guide' should just be free, period.
_spike @ Jan 31st 2008 2:25PM
um...people who pay for these old emulated games are dumb.
/thread
JodyAnthony (death by snoo-snoo) @ Jan 31st 2008 2:55PM
you tell 'em boy! how stupid can people be, using the money they worked hard for to support a medium that entertains them for hours on end?
Garrett @ Jan 31st 2008 2:26PM
I'm shocked that my copy of Military Madness on the TG is potentially worth fifty bucks.
My entire TG-16 collection is theoretically halfway to the cost of a PS3. Perhaps I should investigate this "ebay"...
Billy @ Jan 31st 2008 3:14PM
Military Madness! I forgot all about that game. It rocked!!
SimonBob @ Jan 31st 2008 2:26PM
I tallied up my own modest VC ownership and discovered I'd saved about sixteen bucks through my highly sophisticated system of random impulse buys.
http://simonbob.fobby.net/blug/2008/01/31/save-your-money/
Paviel @ Jan 31st 2008 2:28PM
um... people who play these old emulated games without paying for them are breaking the law.
/thread
Shattercross @ Jan 31st 2008 2:44PM
So when did Nintendo put the chip in your brain?
These games stopped being profitable a long time ago, emulation isn't stealing- you can't steal something that's quite frankly, worthless from a financial standpoint. Downloading and burning a ps2 game the day it's released is stealing. Downloading a 13 year old copy of Kirby's adventure because you can't find it anywhere else is not.
343 Guilty Fart @ Jan 31st 2008 2:55PM
That is, quite possibly, the worst argument I've ever heard for stealing.
JodyAnthony (death by snoo-snoo) @ Jan 31st 2008 2:56PM
"Downloading a 13 year old copy of Kirby's adventure because you can't find it anywhere else is not."
you can find it somewhere else. the wii virtual console.
Kendall B @ Jan 31st 2008 2:57PM
Yeah, I think the games being sold on the virtual console pretty much makes them profitable.
copres @ Jan 31st 2008 3:27PM
it is considered stealing if say for instance the company that made Kirbys adventure makes a collection of all the kirby games on 1 disk and tries to sell it.
or what about all of those nintendo and atari 40-games in-1 collection that they always sell at mall kiosks.
Just because it is an old game doesnt make it "worthless from a financial standpoint" cause they could always decide to sell it later.
Mr Khan @ Jan 31st 2008 3:40PM
I kinda agree with Shattercross, except i feel that the semi-legal-to-illegal (depending on your views of DRM law) act of dling a ROM should be your last reasonable option, only do it when your only other option is to dredge up an old console you don't have and a copy of the game you want.
Plus the fact that when it comes to buying used games, the people who put their sweat and blood into that game get as much from a sale of a used game as from an outright theft...
Also applicable for all old TV shows that aren't in reruns, aren't on DVD, but totally should be (look at my avatar)
JBourrie @ Jan 31st 2008 7:45PM
"These games stopped being profitable a long time ago"
Then where's all that money that Nintendo's making off the VC going? We give them money for their products, that's the very definition of "profitable".
"emulation isn't stealing"
No, no it's not. Downloading illegal ROMs is stealing, emulation is how you use said stolen property.
"you can't steal something that's quite frankly, worthless from a financial standpoint."
The fact that people pay Nintendo $5-$10 per copy would prove you wrong. Just because it's worthless TO YOU doesn't mean it's worthless: I wouldn't pay good money for a Burnout game either, but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there that will.
"Downloading a 13 year old copy of Kirby's adventure because you can't find it anywhere else is not."
Actually you CAN find it somewhere else. You can find it on the Virtual Console. Just because the NES is no longer readily available doesn't mean the games are defunct as well.
Seriously, try to justify it all you want: downloading illegal ROMs is theft. I won't judge you for it (I'm guilty of having a pretty large ROM collection myself), but I do think your attempt at arguing that it's "not stealing" is extremely ignorant.
Jerk Face @ Jan 31st 2008 2:34PM
My only beef with the VC, where I have purchased quite a few titles, is that on XBLA you can purchase classic titles with updated graphics AND online play for LESS than the cost of Nintendo's untouched classics.
Sometimes the classics are better left alone, but when you pay more for something with absolutely no development cost.. it's a little bit of a raw deal to me. Just a little.
WiNG @ Jan 31st 2008 2:43PM
Jerk face just for the record, your uppercut is NASTY.
Jerk Face @ Jan 31st 2008 2:50PM
And you are a master of the H@X, apparently. : )
kbomb1upc @ Jan 31st 2008 2:38PM
The only reason I have an Xbox was to mod it so I can play all the old games. Exceptionally the Arcade games that’s not out anymore like the Old X-Men game and Run-N-Gun. The VC is the legal way but not the best way :)
Co @ Jan 31st 2008 2:43PM
"games bought for the Virtual Console have functionally zero resale value, so those interested in collectability should shell out the extra money."
Why, if you're into collecting, would you be worried about resale value? You're COLLECTING them, to KEEP.
Yeah, this cartridge of Bonk 3? Yea it's worth like $200. Not that it matters, seeing as I have absolutely no intention on selling it. It's just fun to say.
Saneless @ Jan 31st 2008 3:06PM
Emulated on a DS - Sweet way to play, free.
I'm not paying $5 for games that old, sorry. $2 maybe, but for $5 I can get Geometry Wars, Smash TV, Bomberman.. games with a lot more depth and fun than some old NES games.
copres @ Jan 31st 2008 3:28PM
LOL! now thats funny.
what are you talking about? Bomberman and Smash TV were both originally on the NES. so they must have the same depth and fun factor of which you speak of
Saneless @ Jan 31st 2008 4:21PM
Well, bomberman, yes, but if you call that "Use 2 NES pads" abomination that was on NES a real version of Smash TV you're crazy! It wasn't bad, but nowhere near as good as the SNES/Arcade
343 Guilty Fart @ Jan 31st 2008 2:52PM
That is, quite possibly, the worst argument I've ever heard in defense of stealing.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2008 3:42PM
Downloading roms is not stealing. The owner still has their copy. It is copyright infringement, which is not the same thing legally as theft. Just because the RIAA etc tells you that copying is stealing, it doesn't change the actual definition of stealing.
If you made a painting, and then I took a picture of it, did I just steal your painting?
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Jan 31st 2008 3:45PM
Thank you Air Intake. I get so damn tired of hearing self-righteous brainwashed teeny boppers telling me I'm going to jail because I downloaded a metallica song. You can't go to prison for copyright infringement. Its a civil issue. The most they can do is sue and fine.
343 Guilty Fart @ Jan 31st 2008 5:19PM
That is, quite possibly, the worst argument I've ever heard for copyright infringement.
Brandisis @ Jan 31st 2008 3:00PM
I think the biggest problem I have with the VC games is that I don't actually have anything to hold with my purchase. If Nintendo created a Classic Nintendo or a Classic Sega Genesis disc with a dozen or so games on it, I'd be more willing to buy those. I could then trade them with friends and when I get bored I could then turn around and sell the disc on eBay.
Plus I'm not really sure how the VC games are stored. What happens if something happens to my Wii, are those VC games that I just paid for lost?