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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:08PM (Unverified) said

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Uhh, thats a whole lot of words. But my local bar here in Columbia, MD does Guitar Hero nights as well.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:17PM (Unverified) said

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In both Nuevo Laredo and Laredo, Tx, there are Guitar Hero Tournaments...

I once won a bottle of Buchanan's =)
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:16PM (Unverified) said

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No offense, but Guitar hero at a bar?! The bars I usually go to usually have real bands...and women...
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:35PM Shmil said

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some people like to play games like golden tee and billiards at bars, so why not guitar hero?
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:38PM Aperture said

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you typically rent out or purchase the machine when you see them in bars. My question is whether or not any of this really comes out to much. I mean thin about juke boxes. We have one in our restaurant and in some ways is the same as guitar hero. We don't own the liscense rights to the music, but people still pay us legally to listen to tunes.
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 12:33PM (Unverified) said

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because golfers don't go to bars and play golf, musicians do. And anyone who throws a few coins in a machine to play billiards instead of using them on a real table...well...thats just stupid in my book
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:49PM (Unverified) said

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it seems like every "law of the game" leaves me more confused than i was before i read it.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 8:51PM (Unverified) said

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'Guitar Hero Brasserie Sandwichs'? Sounds barely edible.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 9:03PM (Unverified) said

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The bar would be covered by the license from ASCAP. The license between the musicians and the producers of Guitar Hero (or Rock Band) would be irrelevant with regards to the music. (And, it should be noted that there is no chance that the license between the game producers and copyright holders allows or contemplates public performance of the tracks)

The question is solely of public performance regardless of the source/medium of the performance (e.g., CD, MP3, kazoo, video game). The bar needs only one license for the music.

The ASCAP license is a blanket license that covers the public performance:
"One of the greatest advantages of the ASCAP license is that it give you the right to perform ANY or ALL of the millions of the musical works in our repertory. Whether your music is live, broadcast, transmitted or played via CD's or videos, your ASCAP license covers your performances."
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html
The ASCAP license would encompass video games as well.

Therefore, if the bar's license with ASCAP was all paid up (bwahahaha), it would not have to worry about the interplay of the two different licenses discussed above.

However, the outstanding issue is the video, which is the exclusive property of Harmonix or whatever and not covered by the license from ASCAP. That would be an entirely different license and I doubt permitted by the game producer (who in all likelihood would not bother to enforce their copyrights in the video against a bar).

"The content of this [comment] is not legal advice. It only constitutes commentary on legal issues, and is for educational and informational purposes only."
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 11:05PM willsan said

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That would certainly explain the terrible videos on Karoke machines. The ASCAP license covers the song but not the video so the Karoke people make their own horrible videos.

I can't imagine a Guitar hero night.seems like a RockBand night would be a ;lot more fun.
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 10:46AM Crono141 said

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yes, a rock band night would be more fun, especially if you got the smoke and fog addon I heard a rumor about sometime back.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2008 9:17PM (Unverified) said

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A lot of the bars in my college town have Wiis and I've seen Guitar Hero at a couple places. I would assume the tracks featured in the game are part and parcel of the entire package and you license it when you buy the game. The public performance seems to be the main issue, but I doubt any company would pursue it in this context unless the bar was charging admission specifically for the event. The exposure and potential sales of the game is also something to consider.

At the same time, I would think bars could play whatever music they want as long as it's obtained through legal channels; for example, having a live DJ play a set would be using the venue, but likely providing his own equipment and set list. I'm not a lawyer though, so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject.
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 2:11AM (Unverified) said

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At Ground Kontrol in Portland, Oregon we have Rock Band nights every Tuesday. We set the game up on a big projector screen and loud PA system. More and more people have been showing up. Good times! More info: http://www.myspace.com/rockbandtuesdays
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 2:40AM Klitorisaurus said

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All I know is that Guitar Hero or Rock Band in a bar does nothing but help the sales of both the games and some of the long lost music on said games. There are a lot of 21 year olds who may not have heard much of the classic rock growing up. Playing those songs in a game only makes you want to buy the CD more, it gives you an appreciation for the music.

If this actually does become a legal issue and bars are forced to stop I think it would be a big mistake for all parties involved. Let the ROCK continue and enjoy your free advertisement!
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 4:51AM hey buddy said

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A_B: Don't forget BMI, the 'other' publishing company!

I still don't think it's as simple as A_B's comment about ASCAP however (although it's well researched and has links backing up his/her quotes, so 'respect' for that), since these games aren't limited to only publishing/writing rights - while ASCAP/BMI protect rights for writers and performers, they don't have any say in 'master recording' rights and unlike Karaoke, which is always a cheesy cover instrumental, these games use covers as well as specially-built multi-track versions of master recordings. So both publishing and recording usage rights must be secured when a game uses the 'original' version of a song, while a cover version is only subject to publishing rights usage, as it's likely being played by session musicians at the game dev's studio and thus the recording is owned by the developer.

These games use both the two usage rights when an 'original' recording is used, and the developer may not have included 'public usage' in their contracts with the bands/owners of the recordings when they wrote up the terms for using the song, so if this trend gets really big (like regular nights advertised on the radio or TV), it could leave the game maker liable for more money owed. Often this stuff changes from song to song when a compilation/soundtrack is being created, so I imagine these game agreements are even more complex.

I think it's a whole new can of worms that is only being sussed out as we watch - notice how Guitar Hero 3 and Rock Band have a lot more 'real' versions of songs compared to the earlier versions of Guitar Hero. This leads me to believe that companies like EA/Harmonix and Activision/Red Octane are able to show and convince potential bands how much money can be made, and are able to offer more money for 'bigger' recordings, while more bands and owners of recordings are also warming up to the idea of yet another way to expose their music and generate more income from it, and opting to get on board as they see how popular these games are.

I'm just speculating, I don't know the 'ins' and 'outs' of it all - I'm just offering up some thoughts that are based on working at a record label for three years and being a former member of ASCAP as a writer (I haven't paid my yearly dues for years so I'm probably not a member anymore - if you actually have songs large enough to make money, those dues are paid for out of your earnings - needless to say, that wasn't me!).

Great articles, by the way! I wish it was longer, but I suspect without being able to see any (normally private) actual contracts or agreements between the companies, the publishers, and the bands there's no real way to write much more.
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 4:59AM hey buddy said

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Jesus... "TYPING HERO"

sorry about that guys! I went nuts on the typing...
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 10:50AM Crono141 said

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You know, "Typing hero" would make a great typing tutor, in the vein of Typing of the Dead
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 11:00PM CyberSkull said

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I didn't know bars had to buy licenses to play music. You'd think buying the music would be enough in the first place.
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Posted: Feb 14th 2008 11:01PM CyberSkull said

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"Bar Hero" could itself make for an interesting game.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2008 10:12PM (Unverified) said

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And to make things more complicated, there's also the "home equipment" issue, which allows restaurants and bars to play recorded music on sound systems akin to what one would find at home.

The "public performance" aspect of the ascap ninjas only really comes into play for folks like cover bands, so far as I know.

Would a group of kids playing Rock Band at home count as a cover band? Probably not. Would a group of kids playing Rock Band in a bar? Possibly.

I wish I knew this column existed before today. Thanks.
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