Kojima: MGS4 too big for 50 GB Blu-ray disc
by Griffin McElroy 
{ Mar 2nd 2008 at 8:30PM }
It's not much of a shocker to learn the latest (and final) installment in the Metal Gear Solid series is a sizable one -- MGS games have a history of being big (and beautiful). However, a recent interview with series creator Hideo Kojima revealed a startling fact about MGS4 -- Kojima complained that a few features had to be cut from the game so it would fit on a Blu-ray disc. As format fanatics already know, that means the game takes up nearly 50 gigabytes of space. If true, this is bad news for anyone who hoped to see anthropomorphic cow-bots on the 360 (unless that data was divided between about five dual-layer DVDs), but it could also mean a painfully long installation time for PS3 owners as well. We can only imagine that 49 of those gigabytes are taken up by thousands of variations on just three lines of dialogue -- "Snake? SNAKE? SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!?"
[Thanks, Beau Kebodeaux]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
XanthouS @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:36PM
Dear lord. I'd imagine a good deal of that has to be cinematics, uncompressed audio and the like.
How could Konami even fathom putting this on a DVD?
Tiptup300 @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:11PM
What the hell does "compression" mean. Its probably just one of _those_ words.
Hyams @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:16PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compression&x=0&y=0
Knock yourself out, kid.
HalaMadrid!!! @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:19PM
think about the loading times oh shit just thinking about it makes me want to wait for GOW2 but they should make it two disc so is "perfect"
FidliousWong (Oatmeal Defense Force) @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:19PM
The cinematics all utilize in game assets and MGS has never had FMV cutscenes.
The uncompressed audio is the issue at hand.
Anonim @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:34PM
They repeating the same data many times so the long access times of Blueray wont be an issue.
***BRx2 in PS3 has access times excessing 350ms.***
Every laser jump for data have serious delays.
You need smart cashing (takes memory!) or instalation on HDD.
OR you repeat data so laser position doesn't change and drive in PS3 doesn't need to spin up /spin down to keep 2x spped (BR in PS3 is CVL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_linear_velocity )
So to not to have nessessary MANDATORY install (think 5GB in Hot Shot Golf 5, Lost Planet , Devil May Cry) basic data will be repated for every level.
Not the first game, not the last on PS3 uses this method of reducing problems with slow BR drive.
FidliousWong (Oatmeal Defense Force) @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:18PM
Plenty of 360 games use that technique too, jackass. In fact, one of the first CD-ROM games, megarace, used that tactic.
Tiptup300 @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:50PM
Sorry, I was imitating konami there for a second.
Tiptup300 @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:51PM
Oh yeah, the disc read slowness is probably the real reason. And DVD's don't need to do this since they just put the important data farther in. Having it copyed on the outside would just be stupid.
Mromson @ Mar 2nd 2008 11:16PM
HOLY BATMAN!
/preorder
Dan @ Mar 3rd 2008 4:30AM
kinda dumb of them, I guess thay've filled it with boatloads of 1080p video.
J.Goodwin @ Mar 3rd 2008 6:18AM
Actually tiptip, if you've got a CAV drive, putting data on the outside of the disk provides you with faster transfer rates on that data.
SEGA made good use of this trick on Dreamcast. The inner part of the disc (with it's regular file system) acted as a dummy to push the data actually read by the console to the outside of the disk (the "GD" portion).
United States of Generica @ Mar 3rd 2008 7:18AM
Hideo Kojima reveals the fact that MGS4 is too big for Blu-ray, which is a 25GB format. At no point does he say MGS4 doesn't fit on a dual-layer Blu-ray, which is a 50GB format. Let's face it, most BD movies are 'only' on single-layer 25GB format; and every PS3 game has been a 25GB disc so far.
Therefore, 25GB uncompressed data (we all know that's how PS3 optical disc access works) could easily fit onto an 9GB DVD if compressed.
FOXHOUND @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:03AM
I swear that we just went over this already in a previous thread last week...
bigsofty @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:56AM
Must have an extra large amount of boring pre-rendered cut-scene crap...
Magetto @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:37PM
I wonder how much of that used space is uncompressed sound files.
robert @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:43AM
time to cue up the 150-200 uncompressed data comments
Joshua @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:37PM
Should have put it on two discs, then.
unboring @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:56PM
i think your missing the point. A DVD is a maximum 9 gb, This game is 50Gb. That is more then two discs. Here let me break it down for you.
9 x 2 = 18
18
The Artist formally known as Jesus @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:59PM
I think he was talking about 2 Blu-Ray discs
Hyams @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:59PM
Dude, he was talking about two blu-ray discs, not DVDs.
DangerMouse @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:01PM
Blu-Ray isn't a disc!! It's a SUPER-DUPER-DISC!!!!!
Joshua @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:05PM
Yes, I was talking about two Blu-ray discs.
It just seems kind of stupid. Why remove stuff that you spent lots of time and money to create and develop when all you have to do to keep all that content is split the game up over two discs? Does anyone actually care if they have to change the disc in the middle of the game?
zeke @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:07PM
I agree, so why not put the content into two Blu Ray disc?
Hyams @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:11PM
"Does anyone actually care if they have to change the disc in the middle of the game?"
Depends. How linear is the game? It would be annoying in a free-form game if you have to change discs everytime you travel somewhere else.
I'm not sure how linear MGS4 will be. I know it'll contain a number of different locations, and tradionally in MGS games you have the option of backtracking (and often you don't even get a choice, but have to backtrack to continue the narrative).
Autopsy15 @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:02PM
Why not put it on 2 disks you ask? Because is fucking annoying to have to get up in the middle of your game just to change a disk out. It really breaks the immersion.
Ben @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:24PM
It breaks the immersion to get up ONCE during a 40+ hour game to change this discs? Wow, big deal... They're not putting it on two discs because of the high cost of Blu-ray media, nothing to do with having to change the disc.
gore on the floor @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:28PM
"It really breaks the immersion."
You, sir, are a douche.
I'd rather get every ounce of content possible out of a game than worry that I'll be snapped out of the delusion that SNAKE AND I ARE ONE.
Platy @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:37PM
...and what they will have for the "metal gear solid 4 : subsissomething" ? =P
Gun Barrier @ Mar 3rd 2008 12:25AM
Probably because 2 disks go against the point of bluray; Higher capacity.
plus
those disks are exspensive!
Ignatius @ Mar 3rd 2008 7:12AM
When has MGS been free-form? I remember getting up and changing my GameCube disk when I finished about half of the GCN port, I don't even remember the name, oh well.
Lone Starr @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:52AM
Yeah, it breaks the immersion of finishing that fourth bag of Cheetos.
Abscissa @ Mar 7th 2008 1:11PM
@Autopsy15: You know what else breaks the immersion? Saving a game partway through, turning the system off, and coming back later to continue. So...when was the last time you played through a 20-40 hour game in one sitting? (If you say "never", your disc-swap argument loses. If you say anything more than never, you're just simply a looser.)
Cal @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:38PM
Sounds to me like he's just covering his arse in case it doesn't live up to the hype...
XanthouS @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:42PM
Yes. Yes, exactly.
When the game releases and is torn to pieces by the industry, Kojima can claim that the "good mode" had to be cut from the game because of size restraints.
Is that really the best you can do? I'd rather you hopped on the "MGS4 will be ported to the 360" dreamtrain.
DangerMouse @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:58PM
It probably won't live up the hype, because it's been blown so way out of proportion. Really, he isn't to blame, since no other game on the PS3 has even come close to building the kind of hype MGS4 has. But Kojima's games' are always topnotch, even down to the tiniest detail.
finnith @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:14PM
I really hope people don't complain if the game doesn't live up to the infinite hype created by the fanbase/haters. That's what killed Halo in my opinion.
tc @ Mar 3rd 2008 7:50AM
it'll be better than the new duke nukem
Tendonut @ Mar 6th 2008 6:43PM
"Lossless compression has other tradeoffs, one being the complexity of the compression algorithms. I'd rather not waste CPU cycles with lossless compressed files if I can avoid it."
Wait, so we finally found a use for the godly Cell processor and you don't want to tie up the CPU cycles? This is a game console, remember? It's not a PC. You can only do one thing at a time. What else is that processor gonna be used for?
PointyThings @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:39PM
Snake Eater had radio stations and all kinds of shit that was cut, so this is kind of a tradition. Maybe Guns of the Patriots: Subsistence.
Sora267 @ Mar 2nd 2008 8:47PM
It's not that hard, Kojima, just put it on two discs?
Also, I lol'd at the YTMND.
unboring @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:02PM
2 x 9 is 18 , this is 50gb
No matter what bring the game to 9 or 18gb would undoubtably result in a quality loss in audio or video, gameplay, features, cinematics. Some major things would have to be significantly compromised. If it is possible. This squashes the whole " MetAL Gear IS GunnAH Be PORTedED to XBOXss RuleS" idea. And is a big justification of Bluray,
PSN: KillaKornbread (the shirt is a lie!) @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:09PM
dude. unboring. you dumb ass. thats the second time you have said that. think about what your saying and the situation. a Blu-ray disc holds 50GB. if the most a DVD can hold is 9GB, why in the hell would he be suggesting that they put it on 2 DVD's. its quite obvious that he means 2 Blu-ray disc which would give you 100GB. what's wrong with you man lol?
Ethan @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:16PM
The articles talking about the game not fitting in the ps3 version, which means you've replied fanatically to someone who's concern about preserving features on the ps3 version.
You also seem to hold the belief that all compression makes everything look and sound terrible. Things don't need to be highly compressed to be compressed, and I'm sure you'd enjoy the game loading at three times and not noticing the difference if you weren't biased in the first place.
FidliousWong (Oatmeal Defense Force) @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:25PM
Compression = loss of quality. There is no exception to this rule. However, based upon the compression techniques, you either lose a little or alot. Regardless, you will lose something. If Kojima wasn't concerned with quality loss, this wouldn't have been an issue. But it is, so mentioning compression in this debare is rather fruitless.
The creator wants uncompressed, he gets uncompressed. This comes at a massive cost of memory. Get over it.
Anonim @ Mar 2nd 2008 9:38PM
Never heard about lossless compression?
You know like in those zip's rar's 7zip's?
The sound can be lossless compresed - IIRC FLAC , WMA lossless, DD DTS MA etc....
Zoesch @ Mar 3rd 2008 12:36AM
Lossless compression has other tradeoffs, one being the complexity of the compression algorithms. I'd rather not waste CPU cycles with lossless compressed files if I can avoid it.
jonondaspot @ Mar 3rd 2008 3:54AM
It's not that hard? I'm sorry, I must have missed your resume where you have more accomplishments than Kojima. Since no one knows the game's structure it very well may not be as simple as putting it on two disks. How many assets would have to be duplicated for the second disk. Textures, vocal tracks, etc etc. it may not have been that simple.
If it were that simple, you would be making the game. Also rather than blame Kojima, why not blame the people that likely denied the two disk case - the publisher Konami.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:40AM
I didn't know you needed a degree to operate an audio compressor with a GUI.
josh @ Mar 3rd 2008 2:11PM
"Compression = loss of quality. There is no exception to this rule."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless
"Lossless data compression is a class of data compression algorithms that allows the exact original data to be reconstructed from the compressed data. This can be contrasted to lossy data compression, which does not allow the exact original data to be reconstructed from the compressed data.
Lossless data compression is used in many applications. For example, it is used in the popular ZIP file format and in the Unix tool gzip. It is also often used as a component within lossy data compression technologies.
Lossless compression is used when it is important that the original and the decompressed data be identical, or when no assumption can be made on whether certain deviation is uncritical. Typical examples are executable programs and source code. Some image file formats, like PNG or GIF, use only lossless compression, while others like TIFF and MNG may use either lossless or lossy methods."