Sega: Hardcore gamers shouldn't be 'excommunicated' from Wii

by Ross Miller { Mar 6th 2008 at 4:30PM }

After lauding its casual market domination with Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, Sega of America President Simon Jeffrey decided to switch gears, discussing with GameDaily the merits of hardcore gaming on the Wii. In short, Jeffrey feels that Western publishers are making a mistake by ignoring the hardcore gamers who own a Wii.

Unfortunately, other than providing a tantalizing and hypothetical (i.e. not happening) assertion that Condemned would have been great to play with the Wii remote, Jeffrey made no clear commitments to release titles appealing to the hardcore crowd, instead saying, "There's no reason why [hardcore gamers] should be excluded or excommunicated from the Nintendo world," Jeffrey said. Our only hope is that "hardcore" to Sega doesn't mean "let's make a darker Sonic and give him a gun."

Tags: casual, hardcore, sega, simon-jeffrey

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

samfish @ Mar 6th 2008 4:33PM

Ok, now THIS should turn into an epic flame war.

BUT! We can still all unite over one thing:
Shadow the Hedgehog sucked.

deaftly @ Mar 6th 2008 4:36PM

Agreed, after Knuckles every character in the sonic games have just been retarded.

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 4:44PM

Are you dissing Big the Cat?

Oh. It's on.

Mr.ESC @ Mar 6th 2008 4:44PM

I agree with kool-aid man

They started to throw so many characters that is started to look like a furry-con.

They should stay with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy (Amy because otherwise would say Sonic s ghey) then kill the rest with fire.

I'm also the only one disappointed than Coconouts, Scratch and Grounder never appeared in a game (Well I think scratch appeared in a bonus level in Sonic Spinball)

Mr.ESC @ Mar 6th 2008 4:47PM

Dammit.

I agree with kool-aid man

They started to throw so many characters that is started to look like a furry-con.

They should stay with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy (Amy because otherwise people would say Sonic s ghey) then kill the rest with fire.

Am I the only one that wanted to see a Cameo of Coconouts, Scratch and Grounder in a Sonic game? (Well I think scratch appeared in a bonus level in Sonic Spinball)

(I wish we had some sort of edit button)

mmxzero @ Mar 6th 2008 5:00PM

Mr. ESC, Grounder was everywhere in the Aquatic Ruins in Sonic 2.

But yeah, more quality traditional games for Wii from 3rd parties.

Abscissa @ Mar 6th 2008 10:34PM

Shadow the Hedgehog may have sucked to the same extent as Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, but it was a hell of a lot better than those steaming piles that were Sonic Heroes and Sonic 360. And let's take a moment here and step back from all the knee-jerking over the initial concept "OMG! They put guns in a Sonic game! I guess they must trying to be extreme!" Gameplay-wise, the guns actually WORKED.

Plus, am I really the only one here that's actually old enough to remember that *Sonic himself* started out with quite a chip on his shoulder? You know, back before Sega turned him into a damn babysitter? Shadow is nothing more than what Sonic started out as in the first place. Seriously, think about it. The details are different, but the personality is the same.

(Yes, yes, it was ultra-buggy and everything, but that's just been par for Sonic Team ever since the Dreamcast.)

driven2sin @ Mar 7th 2008 12:17AM

when's the next furry con?

Fernando Rocker @ Mar 6th 2008 4:35PM

Exactly... developers make games thinking that 95% are casual gamers...

My opinion is 60% casual and 40% hardcore... all the campers are mostly hardcore gamers...

pkpk523 @ Mar 6th 2008 4:57PM

I think that the Wii in particular has different % regarding hardcore versus casual user numbers. I would guess more like 80% casual. Which is fine. I love my Wii when people are over or my wife and kids want to play, and use my 360 and PS3 to play others online or get into RPGs. Are there any RPGs on the Wii right now? Or rather, any good ones? I'd be interested to try them if you have any recommendations.

upz @ Mar 6th 2008 5:02PM

I think the real problem, Fernando, isn't that developers are writing off the number of hardcore gamers who own the Wii, but instead the perfectly logical business mindset of "Hey, if we can rehash some stale game mechanics and throw in some mascots (Mario & Sonic Olympics), or port a mediocre game we made for another console and add waggle (Splinter Cell, Manhunt), or make another half-assed mini game collection (Wii Play, Carnival Games), or package a last gen side quest at $50 (Soul Calibur Legends) and people will STILL buy it, why the hell would we risk a potential big budget bomb?"

samfish @ Mar 6th 2008 5:15PM

Except nobody bought Splinter Cell, Man Çunt and SC: Legends...

upz @ Mar 6th 2008 5:26PM

Actually, when your game cost a roll of quarters and a pack of Marlboros to develop, 100K sales ain't too shabby.

The point is, when minimal effort gives you a break-even safe bet, at the very least, why take a bigger risk than you have to?

samfish @ Mar 6th 2008 5:36PM

True, but that never stopped developers from making epic, big budget games towards the end of the PS2's lifespan when it was cheaper to develop for.

Foetoid @ Mar 6th 2008 6:21PM

"pkpk523: Are there any RPGs on the Wii right now? Or rather, any good ones? I'd be interested to try them if you have any recommendations."

Grab a GC controller/memory card and grab the best RPG to come out since FFVII; Tales of Symphonia on GC. It's the best RPG i have ever played, easily. ToS2 is coming out on Wii, so it's a good idea to finish the first one anyway.

AwesomeStuff @ Mar 6th 2008 11:14PM

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were friggen awesome to me. Everything else (that was a CONSOLE release) needs to burn with something more powerful than fire

D_Average @ Mar 6th 2008 4:35PM

Right on!

Organic_Shadow @ Mar 6th 2008 4:35PM

Hardcore gamers shouldn't have to type in friend codes. Hardcore gamers shouldn't have to point at letters and click them to talk to each other. Hardcore gamers shouldn't have to waggle through games they've already played long ago. Etc. etc., so on and so forth.

Sorry- Wii is just not suitable for hardcore gamers by design. Even if hardcore games tried to come to the system it won't matter if the system can't even support things that hardcore gamers are used to. Hardcore gamers don't step backward.

I am growing tired from typing hardcore gamers so much.

Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 6th 2008 5:01PM

You know, a long time ago they invented something called a "phone".

You might want to look into it. It could be the miracle device that solves all your problems.

Marry me Mario @ Mar 6th 2008 5:13PM

So you know EVERYONE you play online. Part of the FUN of playing online is being able to chat with people whether you know them or not. Man Crono your becoming worse than Fernandos in your BLIND BIAS toward Nintendo. Even developers are saying that the Wii is becoming casual only and you make up this phone excuse.

Comical.

Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 6th 2008 5:22PM

Funny, most people I know turn off their chat (or mute players they don't know) when playing online.

And you sir, are the very definition of blind fanboy.

ALL HAIL KUTARAGI!!!!!!

Emceay @ Mar 6th 2008 5:27PM

Gawd, you're so hardcore, try not to rip anything.

3cubed minus 3squared plus1 @ Mar 6th 2008 5:32PM

Mr. Ken, some of us don't like talking to other people through Live.
Why the hell does someone want to know where I'm at while playing Halo!?
I usually mute it and put on some music.
However I don't mind talking to people I do know over it,its just not a deal breaker for me.

Shagittarius @ Mar 6th 2008 4:35PM

Feel the Magic Wii - confirmed!

ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ Mar 7th 2008 12:20AM

Without multiplayer. D:

jsn @ Mar 6th 2008 4:37PM

the system isn't capable of doing what hardcore gamers expect. the controls are weak and the system has all the power of one of those wristwatch/calculator things from the 80s. It's hard to cater to the hardcore crowd when they don't fall for games just because you have Mario or some other classic character in them. Hardcore gaming is about pushing the limits and the Wii only pushes the limits of how much money people will waste on bad games before they give up.

Fernando Rocker @ Mar 6th 2008 4:38PM

So... Xbox 1, PS2, Gamecube and all past consoles aren't hardocore?

Your logic is stupid.

Fernando Rocker @ Mar 6th 2008 4:39PM

And believe... I swear that if someday, for thing of destiny or something, I ever see you in person, I will punch your fucking face and kick your ass, literally.

jsn @ Mar 6th 2008 4:42PM

They were hardcore at their time. But now? No, they are no longer hard core. Are you retarded or something? how could you not know that? you pansy ass euro tard with your bad 80s buttcut hair. BRING IT

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 4:45PM

"But now? No, they are no longer hard core."

That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read on this site in all my years of visiting.

Bravo.

jsn @ Mar 6th 2008 4:47PM

how can systems that aren't capable of pushing the technical limits of gaming be hardcore? Just like the Wii, they are outdated. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that..

Fernando Rocker @ Mar 6th 2008 4:49PM

Really, I'm not kidding... I hope someday we meet in a Joystiq meeting or something... I will fucking beat you up. No joking.

Nigeria @ Mar 6th 2008 4:49PM

I'm glad I paused my Peach/Amy fan fiction to check Joystiq.

This whole thread is made of lulz.

Thank you.

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 4:52PM

Because hardcore gaming isn't about pushing any perceived limits, it's about presenting the gamer an entertaining and challenging experience that feels fresh, new, and rewarding.

I own a 360 and a Wii, and my brother owns a Playstation 3. What's my choice for the most hardcore game this generation? Geometry Wars: Galaxies. As we both know, that game's not pushing any technological limits, but as a video game, it's both simplistic and filled with depth and challenge that most games that come out these days simply don't have.

Pushing the limits of technology adds to the allure of a hardcore game, don't get me wrong. Don't act as though thats all there is to making a hardcore game, either, 'cuz that's simply not true.

jsn @ Mar 6th 2008 4:52PM

In addition to being a euro tard, you're also an internet badass too Fernando? riiiight... You'd be easy to spot in your hot pink Mario jammies. As you can tell, I'm not too worried..

jsn @ Mar 6th 2008 4:58PM

Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 6th 2008 5:01PM

Geometry Wars?!? Really?!? You're saying the hardest of the hardcore games this generation is Robotron 2084?

Listen up guys, you heard it here first. Joust will be the next GTA...

megaStryke @ Mar 6th 2008 5:03PM

@Fernando

Hey. It's me. I haven't been posting anymore, but I've been watching and reading the site everyday. I want to thank you, Fernando, for this:

"And believe... I swear that if someday, for thing of destiny or something, I ever see you in person, I will punch your fucking face and kick your ass, literally."

Thank you for being the first and only commenter on a blog ever to make me laugh uncontrollably. Seriously, that was balls to the wall! I'm so glad I continue to visit this site!

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 5:04PM

Geometry wars was sick, but I don't know that I consider it a hardcore game. To me it was just an excellent game. And we agree on the fact that every hardcore game doesn't have to push the technical limits, but it certainly helps! The other half of hardcore gaming is games that offer so much depth as to keep people playing long after the average person has put it down. Ie, good fps's and good fighting games. Newer games naturally gravitate to the most capable systems, which is why hardcore games tend to always push the technical limits.

To date the only hardcore game the Wii has would be SBB. Feel free to point others out to me, but that's the only one that I think offers any of the things needed to be considered hardcore."

I'm basically countering my own point here but Smash Brothers is far from a 'hardcore' offering (even though it is going to be the shit). I could name quite a few 'hardcore' games for the Wii, but thing is, you'd simply toss 'em aside because they have tried and true characters in 'em. I've noticed that your main complaint with Nintendo in general is the fact that they keep to their old mascots, and I really don't see why that's a problem - Super Mario Galaxy, for example, is one of the freshest feeling games I've played in years (just like Sunshine before it, even though I'm in the minority in that case), and as long as the games are quality, why shouldn't they keep bringing 'em out?

And don't give me that 'they're always the same' junk, cuz I could understand that in the case of Zelda, but in almost every other major Ninty franchise, such is not the case.

Newer games do gravitate towards more powerful systems, but that's not proof that a truly hardcore experience could be had on a less powerful system.

I don't understand your definition of hardcore. I just hope you're not one of those kinds of folks who considers a game like Halo 3 'hardcore'.

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 5:05PM

I don't know why your entire post is in mine, heh heh

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 5:07PM

"Geometry Wars?!? Really?!? You're saying the hardest of the hardcore games this generation is Robotron 2084?"

Yeah. So? IMO a hardcore game is a game with challenge and depth that also manages to give in some way shape or form a feeling of freshness or newness.

You gonna tell me that Geometry Wars isn't just that?

deaftly @ Mar 6th 2008 5:08PM

haha ive never seen fernando this angry.

mr mobius @ Mar 6th 2008 5:08PM

Poor little 12 year old, Halo isn't the only hardcore game.

Hardcore isn't about the technological capabilities which a game runs. Old Mario games, Megaman, etc etc are still hardcore. I'd say Ikaruga is one of the most hardcore games and it was on a last gen system. Being hardcore is about difficulty and hardcore games have more difficult end levels than most casual gamers can manage. Its this difficulty which adds to the lifespan of a game for hardcore gamers.

Everything else can be found in either casual or hardcore games.

Mr Khan @ Mar 6th 2008 5:10PM

Wii has Shiren the Wanderer 3

Name a game that is more hardcore than that. I dare all on the internet to do so

Fernando Rocker @ Mar 6th 2008 5:11PM

Halo 3 hardcore? Yea right... try Fire Emblem Wii or one of many RPG's for the DS.

Fire Emblme is really a definition of hardcore game.

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 5:11PM

@Mr. Khan

Radiant Silvergun.

Good luck finding a machine that still plays that, though.

Fatass of Kickassness @ Mar 6th 2008 5:13PM

@fernando

Or, it would have been if not for the fact that you can now save almost any time which pretty much renders the whole 'holy crap my character actually died i'm gonna lose the whole damn game' thing pretty useless

Marry me Mario @ Mar 6th 2008 5:18PM

Fernandos...u r such a child, I'm gonna beat you up cuz you disagree with me or you made fun of my penis....waaaaahhhhh
Jsn is absofrackinglootly 100% correct and you Nintendo babies cant handle it.
Thats what you get for buying grandma's and soccermoms machine.

All I can say is I am ROTFL