It's common knowledge that game companies have been migrating to Canada's developer-friendly shores for some time, a side effect owing more to the region's inviting tax breaks than to its scenery or love of winter sports. Now the UK's Independent Games Developers Association, a gathering more commonly known at Tiga, has cried foul, referring to Canadian government subsidies to game developers as unfair, and that by offering tax incentives "the playing field is increasingly tipped against UK based games developers."
Tiga CEO Richard Wilson has issued a statement calling for the UK government to investigate whether or not Canada's tax breaks for game companies violate any World Trade rules -- something the organization feels is "likely" -- and if so, to "take action via the World Trade Organisation against Canada at the earliest opportunity."
Until such a ruling can be made, however, Wilson has asked the government to "introduce tax breaks for game production in the UK in order to level the playing field against unfair competition." Honestly, nobody likes a crybaby, and if the UK would would match the efforts of Canada, maybe developers like Eidos or Ubisoft wouldn't be so keen on bundling up and setting up shop in America's great white north.
Reader Comments (63)
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 1:56PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said
Theres already a steep hill to climb in this country in terms of game creation as it is, doesn't seem as if its getting any more popular.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:47PM Huey2k2 said
Maybe I am biased but you know what, it's not like we're the only country in the world that has ever broken a trade rule. We spent years here dealing with the softwood lumber BS that was going on with the US.
Unless other countries stop dicking us around I have no sympathy for this.
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Unless other countries stop dicking us around I have no sympathy for this.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 2:14PM spin cycle said
They're definitely "distorting subsidies", as defined by the WTO. But good luck getting the subsidies removed, it took Canada forever to fix our soft wood BS.
Also, Canada will likely justify this as art & cultural development, which is excluded. Even though if you ask me, games don't do anything to promote the Canadian culture.
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Also, Canada will likely justify this as art & cultural development, which is excluded. Even though if you ask me, games don't do anything to promote the Canadian culture.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 2:55PM (Unverified) said
BULL Shit
This guys is just wanting to move his own agenda..
"Wilson has asked the government to "introduce tax breaks for game production in the UK"
What a fucking asshole... I would expect this kinda shit from a yanky not a tommy...
How be talk about the shitty ass subs you sold us you dillhole...
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This guys is just wanting to move his own agenda..
"Wilson has asked the government to "introduce tax breaks for game production in the UK"
What a fucking asshole... I would expect this kinda shit from a yanky not a tommy...
How be talk about the shitty ass subs you sold us you dillhole...
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 2:59PM (Unverified) said
Wait, did the writer of this post just write something as ignorant as "America's great white north"?
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:03PM (Unverified) said
Technically it is -- North America. I prefer to stick with that reading.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:09PM (Unverified) said
what? canada is the america's great white north.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:32PM (Unverified) said
The point is that "america's" and "the america's" are completely different things. Mr. Dobson, either doesn't realize what he's saying or is making a joke in very bad taste.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:46PM (Unverified) said
I guess you have to make that distinction when a country uses part of a continent's name in reference to itself. Does anyone refer to Europe as 'the Europes'? 'The America's' makes sense since there are two continents: North and South. So logically: America = North America + South America.
And since we're in the mood of pointing out errors, I noticed the maple leaf is crying foul when the UK developer is. I guess the maple leaf is more associated with the UK. Funny, I thought is was the opposite.
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And since we're in the mood of pointing out errors, I noticed the maple leaf is crying foul when the UK developer is. I guess the maple leaf is more associated with the UK. Funny, I thought is was the opposite.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:46PM (Unverified) said
Arrogance and ignorance all in one statement. We've come to expect it from the media South of our border. ;)
Nothing new really. As for the UK crying unfair trade practices, well, it's called competing on a world stage - offer something that will make people want to move there. Free Guinness, trip tours or whatever. I remember Ireland being quite competitive with their tax incentives for high tech firms near the end of the 90's. I don't remember to many people whining then. Suck it up and offer the same (your choice - snow for 4 months followed by hot summers or year round rain)
As for the WTO stuff, it's a sham. we've won several WTO ruling against the US for the lumber BS and they fail to comply because they think the WTO is wrong - what's use of having one if the rules are not enforced? Don't even get me started about the 'tainted' beef scandal where they closed their borders so they could raise their slouching beef economy.
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Nothing new really. As for the UK crying unfair trade practices, well, it's called competing on a world stage - offer something that will make people want to move there. Free Guinness, trip tours or whatever. I remember Ireland being quite competitive with their tax incentives for high tech firms near the end of the 90's. I don't remember to many people whining then. Suck it up and offer the same (your choice - snow for 4 months followed by hot summers or year round rain)
As for the WTO stuff, it's a sham. we've won several WTO ruling against the US for the lumber BS and they fail to comply because they think the WTO is wrong - what's use of having one if the rules are not enforced? Don't even get me started about the 'tainted' beef scandal where they closed their borders so they could raise their slouching beef economy.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 8:38PM Booxatron said
Uhh...it was a joke. Never ever take anything on the internet at face value. Especially on this site, there's usually sarcasm behind it. I think he's just playing on the fact that Canada is often stereotyped as being insignificant and not an independent nation. I remember an episode of the Simpsons where they go to Canada for some reason and Homer says something like "Why leave America to go to America Jr.?" Now do you really think Matt Groening is a bigot and truly feels that way about Canada?
It might be a bad joke, but trust me, there's no real enmity or arrogance behind it. Lighten up.
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It might be a bad joke, but trust me, there's no real enmity or arrogance behind it. Lighten up.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:02PM (Unverified) said
I didnt know Developers received tax breaks on a federal level, I always thought it was provincial.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:47PM (Unverified) said
this is joystiq and the profess it is a blog (and not news) so take this info with a grain of salt. ;)
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:54PM kspraydad said
Good article: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183562.html?print=1
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:02PM (Unverified) said
Now which country should we set up shop in? The one that fosters game development, or one of the dozen that have declared video games an abomination against our children's souls?
Canada recognized that games make a valuable contribution to culture and to the economy. Don't bitch about it -- try moving someplace that isn't run by Jack Thompsons.
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Canada recognized that games make a valuable contribution to culture and to the economy. Don't bitch about it -- try moving someplace that isn't run by Jack Thompsons.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:27PM (Unverified) said
I agree with you and I am sick of shit like this...
It is not funny at all...
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It is not funny at all...
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:27PM (Unverified) said
The REAL question is: Do American's give a shit?
The answer is: Fuck no.
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The answer is: Fuck no.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 11:45PM spin cycle said
No it's not.
http://barelybad.com/north_of_canada_map.htm
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/learningresources/facts/faq.html
Middle Island, Ontario is at 41 degrees north. Not even close to south of North Carolina.
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http://barelybad.com/north_of_canada_map.htm
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/learningresources/facts/faq.html
Middle Island, Ontario is at 41 degrees north. Not even close to south of North Carolina.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:39PM (Unverified) said
If we give a tax break, then we give a tax break. The U.S. gives tax breaks to many of 'its' majour multinational corporations and the UK didn't cry balls then? Who knew video games would be the tipping point...
...additionally, just because the U.S. has no definition of 'culture', stop stripping ours away by calling us 'your' great white North. Much obliged.
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...additionally, just because the U.S. has no definition of 'culture', stop stripping ours away by calling us 'your' great white North. Much obliged.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 3:45PM (Unverified) said
Just come to Canada, stop complaining, we are currently being submerged by snow.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 4:32PM (Unverified) said
To quote Peter Griffin, "Canada sucks!". Most Americans refer to Canada as our retarded half-brother, up north.
And the UK has no right to bitch. They're the most overtaxed nation on the planet. They tax you for over the air TV. They even charge you extra for a packet of ketchup at a McDonalds.
And yes - I've been to Canada, and I visit the UK for 3 weeks every summer.
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And the UK has no right to bitch. They're the most overtaxed nation on the planet. They tax you for over the air TV. They even charge you extra for a packet of ketchup at a McDonalds.
And yes - I've been to Canada, and I visit the UK for 3 weeks every summer.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:13PM (Unverified) said
Diskoboy,
We're the retarded half-brothers, eh? Quick question, which retarded country invented NASCAR and American Gladiators?
'Nuff said :P
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We're the retarded half-brothers, eh? Quick question, which retarded country invented NASCAR and American Gladiators?
'Nuff said :P
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:37PM Cabcru said
@Diskoboy: Wait, some UK bod complains that Canada's tax breaks for game developers is creating an unfair advantage and you say the UK bod has no right to complain since he's getting it in the neck regarding taxes. Isn't that the point he's trying to make?
When you referred to Canada as retarded, which side of the border do you hail from, again?
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When you referred to Canada as retarded, which side of the border do you hail from, again?
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 6:37PM (Unverified) said
I'm from America. We don't let a bunch of French surrender-monkeys push our country around.
And I'm laughing at the American Gladiators and NASCAR comment.... Hmm.... Let's talk about Curling, shall we? WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF SPORT IS CURLING??? Curling would be alot more interesting if someone fell THROUGH the ice.
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And I'm laughing at the American Gladiators and NASCAR comment.... Hmm.... Let's talk about Curling, shall we? WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF SPORT IS CURLING??? Curling would be alot more interesting if someone fell THROUGH the ice.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 7:39PM Mabui said
You have a problem with curling? What the hell is any sport? Seriously? We also invented basketball and hockey, got a beef with those sports? Curling is -hard- and it looks stupid on television.
American football would be a lot more fun if people had swords and shields. Least then they would have a reason to wear all that padding (rugby says hello)
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American football would be a lot more fun if people had swords and shields. Least then they would have a reason to wear all that padding (rugby says hello)
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 7:46PM 007craft said
Well Im from Canada, and we dont let a nunch of french surrendering monkeys push our country around either. WE have them all confined to a giant prison province known has quebec, which is excluded from all our contests and benefits :P
Curling? I agree its a retarded sport, but I hate to break it to you, but America has a curling team as well, Canada is just BETTER at it then you.
The "great white north" comments angry lots of canadians because it comes from the past when most people were ignorant and thought we all lived in igloos. Although im not sure todays generations are any smarter. I play with lots of Americans and 80% of them have not even heard on Ontario when they ask "where are you from" despite it being the most populated province in Canada. Whats worse is I have had a few people right from new york, not even know where ontario is. 1 guy even said, oh "LA, cool", when I told him I was from Ontario. He thought I lived near ontario Airport in LA. I mean how dumb can you be? The other day I was playing with a guy and he asked me if we had cars in Canada. He said when he thinks of Canada he jsut thinks of nothing being there.
Its not American citezens fault tho, its their poor education system with regard to world geography. They are taught virtually nothing about the world outside the US, let alone more about their own neigbours. And movies and tv shows are no help as the few that are actually about Canada, well they all suck, and nobody watches them. And US films never feature Canadian cities (Aside from the occasional Montreal mearly mentioned in a film). Whens the last time you watched a big budget action movie with a plot which revovles around Toronto or Vancouver? NEVER. They always take place in various US cities, then london, and occasionaly Rome, Tokyo, Moscow and a few exotic places.
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Curling? I agree its a retarded sport, but I hate to break it to you, but America has a curling team as well, Canada is just BETTER at it then you.
The "great white north" comments angry lots of canadians because it comes from the past when most people were ignorant and thought we all lived in igloos. Although im not sure todays generations are any smarter. I play with lots of Americans and 80% of them have not even heard on Ontario when they ask "where are you from" despite it being the most populated province in Canada. Whats worse is I have had a few people right from new york, not even know where ontario is. 1 guy even said, oh "LA, cool", when I told him I was from Ontario. He thought I lived near ontario Airport in LA. I mean how dumb can you be? The other day I was playing with a guy and he asked me if we had cars in Canada. He said when he thinks of Canada he jsut thinks of nothing being there.
Its not American citezens fault tho, its their poor education system with regard to world geography. They are taught virtually nothing about the world outside the US, let alone more about their own neigbours. And movies and tv shows are no help as the few that are actually about Canada, well they all suck, and nobody watches them. And US films never feature Canadian cities (Aside from the occasional Montreal mearly mentioned in a film). Whens the last time you watched a big budget action movie with a plot which revovles around Toronto or Vancouver? NEVER. They always take place in various US cities, then london, and occasionaly Rome, Tokyo, Moscow and a few exotic places.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:36PM ThornedVenom said
So by your logic, you must be Canadian, right?
Don't make me troutslap you like little bitch.
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Don't make me troutslap you like little bitch.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:39PM ThornedVenom said
The UK should be fearing France's government subsidies instead of Canada's tax breaks concerning videogame development.
Danger is closer to home.
(My stance? Waaaambulance, make your country become more competitive instead of pointing out the accusatory finger at Canada who's making brilliant games thanks to the great opportunities developers have been given.)
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Danger is closer to home.
(My stance? Waaaambulance, make your country become more competitive instead of pointing out the accusatory finger at Canada who's making brilliant games thanks to the great opportunities developers have been given.)
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:54PM (Unverified) said
@ stoik: I think the person being crushed by the maple leaf is the one saying "no fair". The leaf represents Canada, not the UK.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 10:05PM (Unverified) said
Thanks for pointing that out. Please disregard my maple leaf statement.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2008 5:59PM (Unverified) said
Canada does suck, more American developers have made better games- Epic Games, Irrational Games, Bungie, the list goes on.
Canada sucks ass, I hate that pathetic country.
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Canada sucks ass, I hate that pathetic country.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 6:49PM (Unverified) said
YOu're going to call Epic Games Unreal Tournament and Gears of War mediocre? You're an idiot then, what I'd expect from a Canadian.
2K Boston/2K Australia made BioShock you dolt. Irrational Games made System Shock 1 and 2, better than any game any Canadians could make.
Bungie has one person from Scotland, that isn't enough to make it "multicultural". Get your facts straight, dumbass.
Oh, and let's not forget Eidos, Looking Glass Studios, Ion Storm, Rockstar Studios, Take-Two Interactive and many more. That list alone beats anything Canada has.
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2K Boston/2K Australia made BioShock you dolt. Irrational Games made System Shock 1 and 2, better than any game any Canadians could make.
Bungie has one person from Scotland, that isn't enough to make it "multicultural". Get your facts straight, dumbass.
Oh, and let's not forget Eidos, Looking Glass Studios, Ion Storm, Rockstar Studios, Take-Two Interactive and many more. That list alone beats anything Canada has.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 7:50PM Mabui said
This is strangely like people who root for there sports teams in the NHL and are like "Maple Leafs now that's a CANADIAN TEAM!" or "New Jersey Devils, now that's a AMERICAN TEAM!" Hello, they are only based in those spaces, the actual people who play on those teams could be from any number of countries.
I think anyone who tries to measure what developers make great games, and where they come from by where they are based, as some sort of fucked up patriotism, is a total idiot.
Bad enough we have console wars, and people wagging the flag of a companies, that we don't need some silly extra fanboyism on top of that, but I suppose, some people who use the Internet have nothing better to do with their times then create new lines in which to divide people.
On the actual topic, I could see how it would be bad, I mean the movie industry already started frowning at Canada because of tax breaks that led so many movies being shifted from the normal shooting places and still are.
Just how Canada rolls I guess.
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I think anyone who tries to measure what developers make great games, and where they come from by where they are based, as some sort of fucked up patriotism, is a total idiot.
Bad enough we have console wars, and people wagging the flag of a companies, that we don't need some silly extra fanboyism on top of that, but I suppose, some people who use the Internet have nothing better to do with their times then create new lines in which to divide people.
On the actual topic, I could see how it would be bad, I mean the movie industry already started frowning at Canada because of tax breaks that led so many movies being shifted from the normal shooting places and still are.
Just how Canada rolls I guess.
Posted: Mar 8th 2008 8:22PM (Unverified) said
Look Omar I'm a dual citizen. I'm American and Canadian, and spend alot of time in both countries.
There are two things that sucks about Canada.
1. The gun laws.
2. And the lack of patriotism when compared to the States. I think this is due to alot of recent immigrants that kind of just come there and then expect Canada to change around for their culture. At least in the major cities anyways. I'm not sure why, but most people don't support our troops like the U.S.
The things that suck about the US are
1. The drivers. At least in the places I've been, there are wayyy more maniacs on the road.
2. Ignorance towards other countries. This might tie into the patriotism a bit, but the majority of americans think the US is the center of the universe (not literally, but you know what I mean). A large majority don't really care what other countries are like or what goes on in them. (Unless there's a war or something).
Other than that the people in both countries are generally good people, and are very much alike.
Reply
There are two things that sucks about Canada.
1. The gun laws.
2. And the lack of patriotism when compared to the States. I think this is due to alot of recent immigrants that kind of just come there and then expect Canada to change around for their culture. At least in the major cities anyways. I'm not sure why, but most people don't support our troops like the U.S.
The things that suck about the US are
1. The drivers. At least in the places I've been, there are wayyy more maniacs on the road.
2. Ignorance towards other countries. This might tie into the patriotism a bit, but the majority of americans think the US is the center of the universe (not literally, but you know what I mean). A large majority don't really care what other countries are like or what goes on in them. (Unless there's a war or something).
Other than that the people in both countries are generally good people, and are very much alike.
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