NIS America: PS2 lacks the power to run Disgaea 3
by Jason Dobson 
{ Mar 11th 2008 at 9:30AM }
The reactions were made not to the game's release date, but rather to the title's appearance, which despite calling Sony's latest console home, look very much the part of a last gen release. Recently we caught up with the publisher's marketing coordinator Jack Niida, and asked him a number of questions about the game, including just what's the deal with Disgaea 3's lack of visual fidelity.
"It's simply because PS2 lacks the processing power and memory capacity to support Disgaea 3," Jack told us. "PS2 could not load the same amount of data on to memory and process it like the PS3; therefore, we decided to develop it for the next-gen platform." He added that "the character sprites for Disgaea 3 take 3~4 times the amount of labor to create compared to Disgaea 2," and the team is "doing our best to improve the sprites."
While you mull over that justification, and decided if it's enough of a reason to continue to look forward to Disgaea 3's release this fall, look for our complete interview with NIS America later this week.
Gallery: Disgaea 3 (PS3)
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dalrint @ Mar 11th 2008 11:53AM
If you are worried about the graphics in a NIS game, you're kind of missing the point, anyway.
They're probably using the ps3 to let them put more sprites and actions and such on the map at the same time.
LiK @ Mar 11th 2008 9:38AM
i wouldn't be surprised if most of the procesing went into the 3D affects and backgrounds. if they also added a lore more sprites per map then that makes sense as well.
Jon @ Mar 11th 2008 10:25AM
Some has complained that the original Disgaea could work on the PS1, but some of the special effects wouldn't have worked on the PS1. Now I haven't played Disgaea 3, but again am going to guess it is a similar situation.
BananaBoat @ Mar 13th 2008 1:46AM
I don't understand this move at all. I'm not a disgaea fan, nor have I ever played one (I've seen someone playing), but when the word "Sprites" is involved.... it could be done on the PS2. No question, end of story, it absolutely could have been done. I'll add though, that going PS3 means they can up the resolution, add 5.1 audio, and all of that niceness, (not to mention having HD cutscenes etc), but does that make it worth it to alienate most of your fanbase, that probably doesn't have a PS3?
Oh well, I have a PS3, so it's not as if I'm complaining because I can't play it. Just making an observation about how doing it is financially risky.
ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 9:44AM
Just say that high definition demands power.
kevinski @ Mar 11th 2008 9:45AM
Hahahaha...PS2 not powerful enough? God, I'm no PS2 fan, but those screens look like they could easily be done on PS2. This sounds like a way of ensuring at least $10 more per copy sold to me.
ssuk @ Mar 11th 2008 9:53AM
Yeah, because you can really judge CPU consumption from still screenshots.
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Mar 11th 2008 1:02PM
But what if you duct tape two PS2s together?
bm @ Mar 11th 2008 1:53PM
CPU consumption?
It's a fucking grid-based, turn based strategy game, you idiot.
kevinski @ Mar 12th 2008 12:22AM
And you can, ssuk? Honestly, the only reason that this wouldn't run on PS2 would be due to the resolution, nothing more. I really don't see anything that's very impressive in these screenshots. Also, if there's anything in those shots that PS2 really can't produce, then I'd have to say that the graphical engine must be grossly inefficient. You could easily push graphics like those on Dreamcast or PS2.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Mar 12th 2008 4:45AM
Meanwhile, Lucasarts is getting Euphoria to run on the Wii. Maybe the boneheads at NIS America should learn how to code.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 12th 2008 11:49AM
NIS America translates the game, not develops... fucktard.
Meanwhile, this is what Wikipedia says about Euphoria...
"Euphoria is a game animation engine created by NaturalMotion based on Dynamic Motion Synthesis, NaturalMotion's proprietary technology for animating 3D characters on-the-fly "based on a full simulation of the 3D character, including body, muscles and motor nervous system".[1] Instead of using canned animations, the characters' actions and reactions are synthesized in real-time, and so are different every time even when replaying the same scene.[2] Euphoria runs on the Playstation 3, Xbox 360 and PC platforms."
So NIS America is a bunch of retards because Lucasarts can get a 3D animation program working on Wii. DO HALF OF YOU IDIOTS EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO?!? FUCKS SAKE!
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 9:45AM
Makes me wonder just how many animation frames they added....
Jody Anthony (Good Eats Fanboy) @ Mar 11th 2008 9:52AM
personally I think it looks great. I haven't played a Disgaea game yet, but I hear they are good. I may give this one a shot if it comes to the US, depending on when it is released
Phranctoast @ Mar 11th 2008 9:52AM
Its great when companies can piss in our ears and tell us its raining.
Ive seen games like god of war and SOTC. this has got to be an early April fools joke.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 9:59AM
I'm also seen games need to use tactics such as cut animation frames from arcade ports or lower the resolution from arcade originals...
I love how both of your examples are 3D whereas this is 2D. Why? Well, with a 3D model, you load a model and it's textures once. Animations are handled by skeletons are for the average game, rarely taxes the system further. Whereas in 2D, each frame of animation is extra work for the resources. Which is why, in some Nippon Ichi titles, there are actually loading times once spells are used or some of the more elaborate sequences.
Phranctoast @ Mar 11th 2008 10:20AM
Sounds to me that it might be time to jump to 3D then. This method sounds very inefficient and archaic.
I could understand that Western developers/Eastern developers jibe a little better now.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 10:32AM
...you speak blasphemy...
j/k. Truth be told, I wish 3D had gotten to the point to maintain a large amount of the sheer character put in some of Nippon Ichi's designs. Plus, as a small studio, Nippon Ichi relies on reusing assets and even has a fairly small development studio. Fact of the matter, I don't think Nippon Ichi could survive the switch to full 3D as the initial asset creation would be a HUGE undertaking.
But I would like to see your equipment changes be more apparent on the characters...
Phranctoast @ Mar 11th 2008 10:52AM
"I don't think Nippon Ichi could survive the switch to full 3D as the initial asset creation would be a HUGE undertaking."
Time to hire Ready at Dawn. After Okami, they have nothing up their sleeve ;)
bm @ Mar 11th 2008 1:56PM
"This method sounds very inefficient and archaic."
Yeah, and it also looks better.
"Efficient" methods in animation almost ALWAYS lead to shittier quality. And it's because of people thinking like you that we're getting that.
Evan @ Mar 11th 2008 2:50PM
@Phranctoast
I think the art would lose too much of it's style and personality if they switched to 3D.
colinbell @ Mar 11th 2008 10:18AM
Well, expect about 10-20 points docked because of "inferior graphics" by all the reviewers who gave 95+ to Super mario galaxy, Smash bros and Halo 3
Anyway this game sells about 200,000 - I suppose they cant afford to spend more than graphics anyway
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 10:36AM
Wow, you won the thread...
People forget, despite the cult following, it's just that, A CULT FOLLOWING. Nippon Ichi is not a huge studio and what they want to do and what they can afford to do are too different things. And why sink millions in a genre that is just niche enough to support the efforts within it, but not big enough to support expansion beyond that niche?
McWeen @ Mar 11th 2008 10:01AM
People can complain about the graphics all they want but you know this game will sell out and then show up on ebay latter for $80 just like the other ones.
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Mar 11th 2008 7:50PM
But that's because NIS usually ships limited copies of the game.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 12th 2008 11:45AM
But considering I snagged my copies of La Pucelle Tactics, Phantom Brave, and Makai Kingdom out of Bargain bins, that also means NIS America SELLS very limited copies....
Lonecow @ Mar 11th 2008 10:06AM
It is Disgaea. Who cares. I've never bought them for the stupid graphics. the art style maybe, but not the graphics.
I hate that just because it is on PS3 it is being scrutinized for its graphics, where no one has ever complained about it before. And let's be honest, 1&2 didn't look like PS2 games either.
I wish I could bury this story cause it has put me in a bad mood this early in the day.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 11th 2008 10:14AM
...emo much? Seriously, this story put you in a bad mood?
Lonecow @ Mar 11th 2008 10:19AM
Frankly I'm sick of Joystiq's fixation on Disgaea's graphics.
How is it as a game? Not the stupid graphics which no one has ever given a damn about to begin with.
Mills and Boom @ Mar 11th 2008 10:27AM
Why don't you cry about it?
If you weren't bothered by the graphics why would you be here? I'm not bothered about the graphics in Excite Truck but you don't see me going off "boo hoo other people don't like the graphics"
Sounds like you were expecting a big 3D Disgaea but were let down. Internally you feel let down and sought consolation in the gameplay alone - knowing that its only story progression and new levels that await. As a long term fan you feel you deserve more. To see what the characters look like all fleshed out.
ama right. course.
Lonecow @ Mar 11th 2008 10:57AM
lol whatever. You guys are making a bigger deal about it then I am. Seriously. Get bent.
My only disappointment was that it is being released for PS3 only which means I have to go buy a PS3 for it.
Why would anyone want a 3D Disgaea? The artwork is what makes the characters come to life. Please explain what you meant by wanting a 3D Disgaea.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 11th 2008 11:50AM
LOL... wtf is up with you guys replying to Lonecow? He made a good point.
Worst Review Ever @ Mar 11th 2008 11:55AM
If you lick your screen you can almost taste Lonecow's salty, salty tears.
Yourself @ Mar 11th 2008 2:56PM
I think the complaint is less that the graphics are bad than that it's on the PS3. I personally own and love both Disgaea games for PS2, but I'm going to be buying a PS3 just for 3. The point is this: if you're going to alienate fans, make it worth it.
That being said, the sprites look definitively better.
Yourself @ Mar 11th 2008 3:26PM
*not* going to be buying a PS3
Titanium @ Mar 11th 2008 10:13AM
It is probably the mode 7 rotation it was having trouble with.
John Foozmich @ Mar 11th 2008 11:35AM
Yeah, it could use a little more Blast Processing.
russtophiles @ Mar 11th 2008 11:37AM
Looooool.
I can accept that this game looks the way it does... but don't try to make excuses for why it's on the PS3 yet looks practically the same graphically to the PS2 games. I've seen it in motion and there's no super fluid animation or anything that would justify 4x the labor per sprite.
The greatest compliment I can pay to the sprites is that they are 'slightly less blurry'. I'm sure making the game for the PS3 has granted them more headline exposure than if they had made it for the PS2, but they really should have just stuck with it.
Mills and Boom @ Mar 11th 2008 10:19AM
I mostly work on 2D games with 3D backgrounds, mostly.
I'd love to know where "teh power" is going. Memory, CPU. I really can't see it.
NIS just lost a chunk of respect.
mocax @ Mar 11th 2008 10:27AM
The main problem is the RAM.
You need a whole lot more pixels to make sprites look good on HD.
Like that HD Street Fighter.
And pushing pixels need a hefty amount of processing speed
bm @ Mar 12th 2008 1:05PM
"You need a whole lot more pixels to make sprites look good on HD."
Yeah. Have you even seen the screenshots? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.
Here's a tiny hint: THE SPRITES ARE STILL THE SAME RESOLUTION, SHERLOCK.
Marry me Mario PSN: Killjebus @ Mar 11th 2008 10:53AM
No Wii port then?
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 11th 2008 11:06AM
I expect the DS port to be forthcoming after sales of the series skyrocket on that platform.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Zeon Defense Force) @ Mar 11th 2008 11:29AM
Because every RPG without the name Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and not made by Nintendo has done phenominally well on the platform so far, huh?
Marry me Mario PSN: Killjebus @ Mar 11th 2008 11:56AM
I thought what I said was obvious but alas it was not.
PS2 NOT powerful enough to run Disgaea 3 EQUALS Wii NOT powerful enough to run Disgaea 3
hence the no Wii port comment.
borland502 (SDF - Macross Ring) @ Mar 11th 2008 12:15PM
"I expect the DS port to be forthcoming after sales of the series skyrocket on that platform."
Skyrocket? I love me some Disgaea, but I doubt it will even achieve sales on par with the PS2 version, let alone a game like "Advance Wars".
The very nature of the game is very detailed level grind, it's almost a homage to it. Granted, I don't have a DS, but all the games I've played for it have very simplified systems in comparison to their console brethren. I expect sales to be similar to most console ports...limited.
Rollins @ Mar 11th 2008 12:47PM
"PS2 NOT powerful enough to run Disgaea 3 EQUALS Wii NOT powerful enough to run Disgaea 3
hence the no Wii port comment."
Not necessarily. The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2, and the Wii is (slightly) more powerful than the GameCube. So it's possible that the Wii could be powerful enough to run it, especially in standard definition.
Pawsie @ Mar 11th 2008 11:28AM
the game does a lot of little things.. such as allowing you to climb on top of a character.. and form one major attack. Once again.. graphics don't matter, it's processing power. After seeing 3's trailer... I knwe they couldn't do that on a PS2.. or a Wii.. If they add alot of anime scenes and had tons of music.. maybe not even on a 360
Rollins @ Mar 11th 2008 12:55PM
What in that trailer couldn't have been done on a PS2? And a DVD-9 will hold plenty of anime cutscenes, so that's not it. Last time I checked, Disgaea didn't have hours upon hours of FMVs.
prateeko @ Mar 11th 2008 11:56AM
Who cares, just give me the game already!!