Microsoft 'not in talks' with Sony over Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive
by Christopher Grant 
{ Mar 13th 2008 at 9:28AM }
Considering a not insignificant portion of the Xbox 360 owning audience has a now obsolete drive tethered to their 'box, we're unconvinced that the "Xbox experience" couldn't use a high-def optical format. Greenberg is quick to point out that Xbox 360 is "the only console offering digital distribution of entertainment content" which, to our continued great surprise (don't you own a movie studio, Sony?), is still true ... but for how long? We can't be sure of what makes sense to Microsoft bossman Ballmer, but we think just talking to the Blu-ray Association might be a good start.
[Via Engadget]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
XanthouS @ Mar 13th 2008 9:36AM
I don't mean to split hairs, but isn't the XBox division a branch of MS? Could it be that a part of Sony is talking to the MS heads about Blu-ray in the 360, rather than having the Sony execs talk to the Xbox division?
Anyhoo, I don't see why MS wouldn't embrace Blu. I know MS is banking on digital distribution being the future standard, but no matter how hard they push it, consumers won't embrace the change until they are good and ready. And if MS's past DRM policies are any reflection of the future, I'll take my stacks and stacks of physical media, please.
XanthouS @ Mar 13th 2008 9:39AM
I should have been more clear on my point:
Original story:
"Sony was in talks with console rival Microsoft"
New story:
"Xbox is not currently in talks with Sony"
Like I said, it may be splitting hairs, but we may be talking about different negotiations/discussions between different company execs here.
Stef Geiger @ Mar 13th 2008 9:45AM
I agree, but I don't think it's Microsoft that's making the negotiations hard. Sony letting a rival console maker use Blu-ray would have to go down as one of the stupidest business decisions of the decade. Some may disagree, but being able to hold Blu-ray over Microsoft's head is nothing to scoff at.
And flamers can say what they will about how it doesn't matter because Microsoft offers HD downloads - if you think there isn't a dramatic quality improvement from heavily compressed 1-2mbit/s 720p video and 20-40mbit/s 1080p video, you probably don't need an HDTV anyway.
copa @ Mar 13th 2008 9:55AM
+1 to Stef. I haven't seen anything get compressed that brutally since the Inquisition. The movies look like a nice upscaled DVD, but if they want $6 for a rental, then I want the option to download some truly high-def stuff.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:04AM
But Stef, Sony lets other hardware competitors (like samsung and phillips) make blu-ray players. Why not let microsoft have their player. It means royalty to the BDA and that many more customers buying BR movies.
It seems to me that sony is all gung ho about this, but MS is still licking their wounds.
Obie @ Mar 13th 2008 10:06AM
Even worse M$ offers "HD" rentals....I rather OWN my HD movies...thank you very much.
the Brayn @ Mar 13th 2008 10:09AM
"And if MS's past DRM policies"
Because Sony has never put DRM on any of their stuff? Fanboys can be so forgetful sometimes. How about the DRM they put on a bunch of CDs back in 2005 which caused all kinds of system problems? What about their "unbreakable" BD+? Yeah, Sony is a much better company with their physical media.
Roto13 @ Mar 13th 2008 10:10AM
Why would a non-Xbox part of Microsoft deal with Xbox stuff?
SG @ Mar 13th 2008 10:12AM
Crono, there's a HUGE difference between letting hardware manufacturers (especially ones that helped develop the standard, but that's not really relevant) make blu-ray devices, and letting a RIVAL CONSOLE MANUFACTURER implement the technology in their machine. Blu-ray IS one of the PS3's big selling points over the 360. NOT letting Microsoft use Blu-ray guarantees Sony a good portion of the market share.
Could someone with a degree in business or commerce or something PLEASE chime in here? It seems like no one gets this concept.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:28AM
If these talks are actually going on, Sony has probably dones some number crunching and decided that the potential loss of PS3 sales is outweighed by the potential gains for moving the BR movie format forward.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:45AM
Exactly Vid. There is a break-even point somewhere, and negotiations probably fell through (or may fall through, if MS is to be believed) because they were unable to negotiate past that point in sony's favor.
Also keep in mind, Xbox devision wouldn't be talking to PS3 devision, they'd be talking to BDA. Completely different set of suits. If you look at how Sony the company is structured, you'd see that Kaz would have very little say in the decision.
mocax @ Mar 13th 2008 11:22AM
Because they're making a loss for every PS3 they sell, and they make profits for every BluRay license they sell to OEMs.
By getting Microsoft to make BluRay drives for the Xbox360 user-base, Sony stands to gain massive profits. Potentially overshadowing the manufacturing costs of PS3s.
343 Guilty Fart @ Mar 13th 2008 12:31PM
Don't forget though that Sony is only part of the Blu-ray consortium. I'm not sure they're in as complete control of the format as you think.
Stef Geiger @ Mar 13th 2008 9:40AM
Ah. Good. This is probably because Sony knew that letting Microsoft use Blu-Ray would cannibalize sales of the PS3, so they probably offered them some absurdly high price tag per unit. Notice how he said "Xbox is not currently in talks with Sony or the Blu-ray Association to integrate Blu-ray into the Xbox experience.", and not "we were NEVER in talks".
Well, good news for we PS3 users.
Morgon @ Mar 13th 2008 11:29AM
*sigh*
Sony != the BDA. They are a board member and part of the founding group of the Blu-ray Disc Association (along with 8 other companies), they are NOT 'the' Blu-ray Disc Association.
They cannot impose outlandish license fees any more than Pioneer, LG or Sharp (who are also founding members) can.
SG @ Mar 13th 2008 11:38AM
Very true, but I'm pretty sure Sony put a lot more into the development of BRD than any other company. I wouldn't be surprised if they made some kind of agreement with their BDA partners specifically describing the conditions under which they would allow Microsoft to implement BR into the 360. While the SCEA is obviously not the same entity as "Sony the BRD supporter", it'd be a stupid move for Sony to decide to make licensing fees off of Microsoft considering how much it could impact sales of the PS3.
EdwardA @ Mar 13th 2008 12:34PM
Except that this type of activity, specific exclusions of a business entity in order to further a specific company's intrests, is illegal under monoply laws. With the BDA already have been investigated for this type of activity, I doubt they've placed any restrictions on MS and the use of Blu-Ray. It would be similar to MS preventing the BDA from using VC-1 on their discs. It's lawsuit territory.
Obie @ Mar 13th 2008 9:40AM
I do wonder why M$ is not thinking about a blu-ray drive for the 360. I mean if I were a home theater enthusiast would I buy a $2000 dedicated player? A $400 PS3....OR...a $149 attachement for the 360?
I am sure they don't want people to be flocking to the PS3 for their high-def fix.
Boscorooty @ Mar 13th 2008 9:59AM
If you were a home theatre enthusiast, you'd AT LEAST buy the cheapest standalone. The 360 HDDVD drive was fairly crappy. I see nop reason to assume the BD drive would change matters.
Me? HTPC with HD and BD.
deaftly @ Mar 13th 2008 10:30AM
Stopped reading when I saw "M$".
Phranctoast @ Mar 13th 2008 10:46AM
to bad you didn't stop posting ;P
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Mar 13th 2008 11:40AM
I'm sure it will happen, I wouldn't be surprised if a few months later, some announcement is made of an external blu-ray drive.
Also yeah I agree, enough with the $. It does not make you look witty at all and makes you sound like a total tool.
hotnutz @ Mar 13th 2008 6:51PM
Using the dollar sign or not does not change the fact that Microsoft is known for nickel and diming their customers. Not just in the console market either - if you have ever worked in procurement any company that has a contract with Microsoft, you would know how much they screw companies over when new versions of Windows and Office come out.
They are ingenious when it comes to getting money out of people but dumb in terms of building positive business relationships. That monopoly will be gone someday and they won't have much left to stand on.
Bleu @ Mar 13th 2008 9:53AM
It wouldnt make sense for M$ to create a blu-ray drive for the xbox becasue its really too late. And digital distribution is not gonna happen for a loooooooooooooong time and M$ wont be dominating that market anyways.
brokenscope @ Mar 13th 2008 10:00AM
Digital distribution is already happening and its already common.
Bleu @ Mar 13th 2008 10:31AM
Our bandwidth is nowhere near where we need it to be to do such downloads...not with no 3mbps LOL people are too impatient for such slow speeds. Maybe is another 10-12 years.
SoulBlade @ Mar 13th 2008 10:00AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony is charging them up the ass for Blu-ray on the 360 (I would) and MS bailed on it and is trying to save face. It's also pretty logical given the lack of sales of the HD-DVD drive, but how much of that was due to consumer confusion?
There really would be no reason for a consumer w/o a PS3 or 360 to choose a 360 over the PS3 even if the thing had a Blu ray drive, since the price would probably put it beyond that of the PS3 (unless MS decided to lose more money)
Snap Count @ Mar 13th 2008 11:33AM
For those who say Sony would be making "one of the stupidest business decisions of the decade"
The only reason MS would be talking to Sony is to save some pennies. There is nothing stopping MS from talking to say....Samsung and asking them to make some drives for the 360. Unless every contract that Sony signed explained explicitly "you can not make BR for MS"
NATO_Duke @ Mar 13th 2008 10:00AM
MS was later quoted as sayig that negotiations are totally different than "talks" and Sony obviously was wrong in using such a label. :P
Oh, I forgot to do the cool thing and type M$. Cause they make so mcuh money you see, its just so darn funny. *giggle* /sarcasm
Mike @ Mar 13th 2008 4:25PM
Re: NATO_duke
I still firmly believe that it's blatant fanboyism that prevents Xbox fans from constantly saying $ony.
When someone says "M$" the first thought in my mind is usually something like "i wanted 2 buy a 360 but my friend's died so I went for PS3 'cause they had a cool commercial on TV and it's more powerful and i read that on wikipedia and black is a better color than white..."
*ramble ramble*
Bottom line: It's more immature than anything.
Organic_Shadow @ Mar 13th 2008 10:03AM
They never were. The original story was that Sony was in talks with M$ about Blu-ray, not the xbox division specifically. Which = Blu-ray drivers for Vista etc. Not an external BD drive.
Christopher Grant @ Mar 13th 2008 10:19AM
The original quote was: "Sony is in talks with console rival Microsoft about offering a Blu-ray drive for the Xbox 360."
So, unless Xbox is suddenly no longer a part of MS, or if MS is prone to making decisions like this without the input of the Xbox division, then it seems like this had everything to do with the Xbox and not the Vista drivers.
Doc @ Mar 13th 2008 10:04AM
Seems like even though a blu-ray option would be nice, MS screwed the pooch with a lame joke of a HDD. 20gig or I mean 13 is nothing if your whole goal is to push digital distrobution. I guess that is what happens when people who don't know what they are doing(suits) try and make extra more through shortcuts.
Maverick Saturn @ Mar 13th 2008 10:05AM
Key work is 'integrate', nothing is said about add-on, like as if we don't have enough add ons to our 360. Mine already looks like a blimming octopus with all these wires travelling from it, its tragic :(
Meh, whos complaining, as long as it does what it needs to, its a pain in the ass to take anywhere though, lol
Whether they do or don't nobody looses, if they do Sony makes more money, Micro gets attachment so 360 owners won't buy PS3 for blu-ray. If they don't Sony keeps exclusive license to blu-ray while Micro stays DD. Theres nothing stopping Sony going DD as it is, they already mentioned conjoining with SKY for UK users to get DD, and that would be incredible for UK people, that would give us everything we need, however, other regions get left out. Last time I checked, Sony had other departments :S
You should be able to buy Bravia TVs, Ericssons and all sorts of Sony stuff on the marketplace :S
DaveC @ Mar 13th 2008 10:06AM
Microsoft not in talks with Sony over a 360 Blu-Ray drive, they could be doing that themselves whilst speaking to Sony about Blu-Ray as a format.
ThePremierAssassin @ Mar 13th 2008 10:26AM
Well does MS HAVE to talk to sony about a 360 Bluray Drive?
Why not LG, Samsung, or Panasonic? I thought Bluray wasn't "owned" by sony..
Personally I think its fully sony's format since sony was the major backer of it. Yes Bluray had a variety of supporters but none as big as sony...nor as evil.
Anyways this is an awkward place for MS to be in. I mean the format they kinda supported has died. And this generation of consoles while far from over is a getting into the middle stretch of things IMO. So do they really want to add another add on to the box or just wait a few more years and add it inside of the xbox 720?
Regardless of what they decide to do I'd opt to get a standalone before I got a 360 Bluray addon. For various reasons the least of which being the reliablity and my concern as to whether or not my 360 Elite would implode...
Kye NFC: 7016 - 9552 - 1191 - 8991 @ Mar 13th 2008 10:30AM
"Greenberg is quick to point out that Xbox 360 is "the only console offering digital distribution of entertainment content"
Digital distribution - As in not a physical copy, right?
Entertainment content? - Like, in games?
Wii? VC??
JonFitt @ Mar 13th 2008 11:49AM
Don't be a pedant. It's clear he meant TV and movies not flogging old games.
Kye NFC: 7016 - 9552 - 1191 - 8991 @ Mar 13th 2008 10:30AM
"Greenberg is quick to point out that Xbox 360 is "the only console offering digital distribution of entertainment content"
Digital distribution - As in not a physical copy, right?
Entertainment content? - Like, in games?
Wii? VC??
J.Goodwin @ Mar 13th 2008 10:31AM
Because, obviously, my HD XA-2 no longer actually works. All those movies that I bought are suddenly blank. The online sales of movies that I'm interested in at ten dollars a pop are of no value to me whatsoever.
Obsolescence is a hard cross to bear. Apparently victory is a harder one though, because BluRay player prices are going up, and the stand alone ones don't even support the features of the still incomplete 2nd BluRay spec (because they weren't designed to be auto updated). The thirty dollar movies won't be dropping in price any time soon either.
deaftly @ Mar 13th 2008 10:33AM
$ony $ays they are, Micro$oft $ays they arent. U$ing dollar $igns a$ "S"'$ is awe$some.
deaftly @ Mar 13th 2008 10:34AM
dammit I fucked up awe$ome!
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:56AM
So close to ownage,
With a typo your comment
Instead pwned yourself
My haiku.
Farseer (GDI) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:49AM
I could see the next generation MS console integrating Blu ray, but I don't think we'll see it on the 360. As it is, not every 360 has an HDMI connector, and even though you can play games at 1080p over component, you cannot watch movies at 1080p over anything but HDMI. I just don't see MS spending all the money to develop a Blu ray drive attachment (and pay the royalties), when only about half of their user base can actually use it to its full potential.
The HD-DVD add-on had the same 1080i-1080p issues, but it was part of a battle in the format war, and therefore the development cost was justified. Now that the war is over, I think that MS would much rather focus on Digital Distribution with the 360 and evaluate a Blu ray integration as a possibility in their next generation of console.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 13th 2008 10:57AM
HD-DVD played in 1080p over VGA
A similar deal would have to be worked out for a blu-ray drive.
Farseer (GDI) @ Mar 13th 2008 11:16AM
Really? I was under the impression that the MPAA had pushed really, really hard to take away all analog options regarding HD-DVD/Blu ray. I wonder why MS is allowed to send an analog 1080p signal for movies when no one else is?
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 13th 2008 11:24AM
@Crono
I'm not sure that is correct. I thought the HD DVD player add-on was only able to do 1080p via HDMI. Perhaps you are thinking of the DVD player? It will only upscale over VGA or HDMI, not component.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 13th 2008 12:23PM
perhaps it will only do 1080i over VGA, but in any case there has to be an analog option for the HD-DVD player, otherwise it would be pointless.
Jonah Falcon @ Mar 13th 2008 10:51AM
You'd be right, Joystiq, except you're wrong:
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/03/12/microsoft-confirms-official-support-of-blu-ray/
Microsoft will not INTEGRATE the Blu-Ray drive into the system. They WILL have an external Blu-Ray drive. (rolling eyes)
Please, learn English.
NATO_Duke @ Mar 13th 2008 11:05AM
I don't think its as clear as Balmer said it so there is going to be support. The story re Balmer's pro-Blu comments was from:
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Microsoft_Confirms_Going_with_Bluray/551-87585-581.html
Yet today:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7010315474
Balmer's quote was on one front, and it appears that Greenberg was clearing it up.