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Reader Comments (14)

Posted: Mar 19th 2008 6:20PM Stupidiot said

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I think what most people need to remember about these laws, is that it's not the government trying to act as a parent, or telling you that you can't have something. To me it makes more sense to restrict the material that children can get their hands on by giving more control to the parents. As long as the industry can regulate itself, then I'll admit there is no need for the government to enforce age ratings, but I also think there is a problem with holding the sales clerk liable when they sell a game to someone under aged.

(sorry if this is a bit garbled - I'm half asleep right now)
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Posted: Mar 19th 2008 6:22PM Saria the Cat said

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Well said.
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Posted: Mar 19th 2008 6:39PM (Unverified) said

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While I don't want the government's spoon in my puddin'(yeah I made that up), SOMEONE should be held accountable when M rated games are sold to minors-- which definitely happens. That's really the only issue with the ESRB being it's own police. They have no power over any retail outlets that mistakenly or otherwise sell M games to minors.
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Posted: Mar 19th 2008 7:04PM Alahmnat said

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I disagree with you there... as mentioned in the article, the MPAA has no control over an individual theater establishment's sale of tickets into R-rated films to children under the age of 17. The theater industry happens to *by and large* follow the recommendations of the MPAA and restrict ticket sales to under-age viewers, but there are no fines, penalties, or other repercussions in the event that a child either legitimately acquires a ticket or otherwise manages to sneak into a film they're not allowed to see. I see no reason why video games and the retailers that sell them should be subjected to greater scrutiny. Heck, as far as I know, there's nothing stopping a 12-year-old from buying Saw 3 at Best Buy, and the government sure as hell isn't angling to prevent *that*...

If anything, games are far more subject to parental oversight than going to see movies at the theater; they're pretty much on par with the requirements of responsibility and informed decision-making for buying a DVD. If Best Buy sells my kid a DVD or video game I don't want him watching, I'm not going to get mad at Best Buy for selling it to him, I'm going to get mad at my kid for disobeying me. If I go out and buy my kid GTA4 even though he's only 6, that's nobody's fault but my own. If I catch my child *playing* a copy of GTA4 that I bought for myself, again, it's time to discipline the child.

Admittedly, you can't control what your kids are going to do when they're outside the house (i.e. at a friend's house), but that's true for pretty much every potential ill that could befall them: M-rated games, R-rated movies, drugs, reckless driving... I see absolutely no reason why video games have to be held to a higher standard of responsibility for what the age and behavior of the purchaser is than any other form of entertainment.
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Posted: Mar 20th 2008 6:55AM (Unverified) said

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I understand your disagreement, but I think that someone should be held accountable for underage kids getting into R rated movies as well. I teach middle school and hear 11 year olds talking about how they're going to see Saw IV (insert recent gore/horror/violence/sex flick) this weekend. Call me old fashioned, but I think most R rated movies these days should not be watched by most minors.


To your other point, I would be mad at my kid, yeah. But I'd be pretty pissed at Best Buy too if the box is clearly marked 17 and over and my kid is clearly younger than that. You mention buying GTA IV for a 6 year old. What if the 6 year old had $60 and bought GTA IV him/herself at Best Buy- who should I be mad at then?
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Posted: Mar 19th 2008 7:02PM (Unverified) said

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It's kind of weird reading about these issues when you live outside the US (I'm in Australia).

I'me pretty sure it's illegal here for a shop to sell an MA rated game to anyone under 15, but it's not remotely enforced (I still remember seeing a kid no more than 8 buying Bully :))

The rating system here has recently changes to have bigger, more obvious lables, because people just don't read them. Then again, Aussies seem incapable of understanding rating on movies too. A friend of mine took her two sons (10 and 8) to see HP5, and was shocked at the general darkness of it. She looked at me blankly when I asked what she expected of an M rated movie, she assumed it was for kids. People do the exact same thing for games.

On that note, I'd also like to moan ( :) ) about the lack of an R rating for games in this country, and the fact that we still don't have a release date for Brawl.
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Posted: Mar 19th 2008 7:33PM vidguy said

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Good content, but what I find interesting is the reason these bills have failed, which isn't mentioned here. There's nothing necessarily wrong with their goal, especially since most are attempting to restrict the sale of Mature-rated games to minors. You will see that in the fact that few appeals even cite First Amendment protections.

Instead, these bills are failing because they are improperly written and cannot correctly form a legal, constitutional law. Arbitrary enforcement, vague wordings, and a lack of definition of the material in question plague all of the bills.

When the bills are finally written correctly, we will actually get to see what the Supremes think of this. Because video games are sold (like movies) and not broadcast, I expect the courts to follow the precedent of not enforcing legal restrictions.
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Posted: Mar 20th 2008 12:37AM xboxer said

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God! I hate messed-up mini-blinds. That is one of my biggest pet-peeves in life. It drives me crazy to see that.

What's the article about?
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Posted: Mar 20th 2008 2:04AM (Unverified) said

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OMFG! That was hilarious! I LOVE that picture!

SO yeah, what was this blog post about again? Keep posting pictures not words! =P
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Posted: Mar 20th 2008 2:42PM (Unverified) said

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There is one, and only one reason that a theater or retailer could be held legally accountable for allowing an under-aged person to see an R-rated movie or M-rated game. That reason is that most theaters and retailers make it part of their public policy to enforce ESRB and MPAA age-appropriateness suggestions. That is, they are breaking a promise to their customers. It is a civil violation, not a criminal one.

So if Best Buy sells your 15-year-old son an "R"-rated DVD and that pisses you off, go ahead and sue Best Buy for violating its promise. But don't call the police to have the store manager arrested, because he didn't commit any crime. Any law that tries to enforce the openly subjective age-appropriateness suggestions of the MPAA or ESRB would not only violate the first amendment, but it would also violate the copyright of the ratings themselves.

vidGuy -- What are you talking about, "improperly written." How do you "properly" write law that violates First Amendment protections? If you are trying to claim that it is possible to objectively demonstrate some universal harm that all Mature-rated games inflict on minors who purchase them, good luck with that -- many have tried and all have failed. Why? I'm thinking it might have something to do with the fact that there obviously is no such harm....
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Posted: Mar 20th 2008 3:22PM vidguy said

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You have to write a law that can be legally enforced first. As I've stated elsewhere, the bills that have been put up can't even stand on their own as laws. Once the bills are written in a way that they could be considered laws, THEN you can argue whether they violate the First Amendment or not.

Arguing over whether or not these bills violate the First Amendment is like arguing whether you had a reason to go over the speed limit when you were doing 60 in a 65. In that case, your reason is moot because the circumstances don't warrant its discussion. It's like arguing with your spouse about what you will watch on TV when your TV is broken.

In this case, whether or not minors should be - and can constitutionally be - prohibited from purchasing violent video games is a moot point because most of these bills do not stipulate what violent video games are. Whether or not salespersons can be held criminally is moot because the bills don't stipulate HOW they would be held criminally. Any of a number of reasons can prevent a bill from even being a proper law; so far, all of these bills have fallen because they were not written in the correct way, not because of what their goal was.
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Posted: Mar 21st 2008 5:07PM (Unverified) said

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I read the article and the other users comments and here is my opinion on the situation. I just recently turned 17 so now I can go buy Rated M games at gamestop or best buy where they do card you. I do not beleive the sale of M rated games should be in the same leauge as Alchohal, Pornography, or Tobaco because those vices are actually proven to cause damage (Pornography makes violence towards women more acceptable). Very few games make violence glamorous or abuse to women acceptable (Besides GTA). So why are they cracking down on the issue of video games when there isn't an issue there. I find most of my friends who play M rated games like Call Of Duty and Rainbow Six are the ones who aren't spending their weekends binging and getting high. Yes these games do cause some agression but any activity can cause agression. Instead of steroetyping rated M games or video games in general they should be more flexible about ratings and create a rating above M that is actually used. Stick GTA behind a curtain or have the front covered so you ahve to ask a store clerk to get it for you so an 8 year old wont just snatch it off the shelf and buy it or steal it. If their parents buy it for then SO WHAT. They are responsible for any violent or offensive material their kids view anyways.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2008 5:53PM (Unverified) said

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I pretty much said the same thing here when Manhunt was banned in the UK. Much less eloquently, mind you...

http://pure-drivel.com/2007/06/19/a-short-treatise-on-the-banning-of-violent-video-games-in-the-uk/

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Posted: Apr 10th 2008 6:58PM hvnlysoldr said

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Pure drivel doesn't sound so credible.
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