N+ developers rail against glut of bad XBLA games
by Kyle Orland 
{ Mar 21st 2008 at 2:10PM }
Talking to Gamasutra, N+ creators Raigan Burns and Mare Sheppard railed against Xbox Live Arcade's bloated catalog of copycat games. "The real problem, I think, is that the same people who are deciding what retail games get greenlit are deciding what Live Arcade games get greenlit," Burns said. "Those decisions that are ruining Live Arcade... it's like, who greenlit Word Puzzle? Who greenlit that hoverboard game that's just shit?" It wasn't always like this, according to Burns. "When we started out ... there were 30 games on Live Arcade. If N was one of them, it would stand out. Now there's like a hundred games, and they're all shit. ... If I was a consumer, I could see not even looking at Live Arcade games anymore if I had downloaded 10 or 20 demos, because at a certain point, you're like, 'Whatever. Maybe there's a good game in here.'"
The full interview contains more thoughts on the Xbox Live certification process, the effect of game demos on buzz, and the stupidity of charging for gamerpics and themes. A word of warning: Microsoft fanboys should take their heart medicine before clicking the read link.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
vidGuy @ Mar 21st 2008 2:14PM
I refuse to pay for themes and gamer pics. My current theme is the free GTAIV one, and it's pretty good. As for XBLA content, I disagree that they're all shit. Maybe 80%, yeah, but there's some really good ones in there. You just have to do some demoing and reading up on the games and not go spending your points willynilly.
Mr.ESC @ Mar 21st 2008 2:24PM
Well I'm not against paying 50p to 150p for themes but all the good ones are free(Gears of War,COD4,PGR etc etc)I once paid for a Naruto theme because it was cheap and it sucked I mean there are more characters in Naruto than freaking Naruto.
Co @ Mar 21st 2008 3:01PM
lmao stupid ass Microsoft and their garbage ass 360
Co @ Mar 21st 2008 3:21PM
lol geez guys!
baby sea tuna @ Mar 21st 2008 3:23PM
^^SHUT THE FUCK UP TROLL.
Jesus, I swear!
playwhutyalike @ Mar 21st 2008 3:36PM
Blades of Glory Theme over here, my man.
Co @ Mar 21st 2008 3:47PM
Who gets this worked up over words posted on an internet blog? my god, baby seamen!
MortifiedocAlot @ Mar 21st 2008 4:16PM
"my god, baby seamen!"
I hardly see what baby sailors have to do with posts on the internets.
Dirt @ Mar 24th 2008 9:29AM
I'm the same way, I refuse to buy pretty much anything on Live anymore. I use free themes, because most of them are just advertisements, and they should be paying me to display it in the first place. Same goes for map packs, these are free on the PC, so I wont bother on the 360.
As for the games themselves, what they say is true, I don't bother with even playing the demos anymore. I just wait for forums people to say games are definite 5 stars, like Puzzle Quest before I try them.
Maybe Live needs a rating system. Then you could sort by rated games.
Shagittarius @ Mar 21st 2008 2:15PM
Premptive strike cause they know a game that looks like that isn't gonna sell well no matter what.
vidGuy @ Mar 21st 2008 2:33PM
Who cares what it looks like? The game is a lot of fun but at 800 points is way overpriced. I'd buy at 400 points, but for now I'll stick with the free flash version.
Shagittarius @ Mar 21st 2008 3:43PM
You know who cares what it looks like? 99 percent of everyone that plays games. Only hardcore gamers will give a game that looks like this a chance and the sales will probably reflect that.
Sora267 @ Mar 21st 2008 11:42PM
Actually, if I was a casual gamer, I'd pick this up simply because it looks simple to play.
And most 360 owners are hardcore gamers anyways...
LaughingTarget @ Mar 21st 2008 2:16PM
I feel their pain. I turned off the auto-download of new Arcade titles months ago because I got sick of deleting all the garbage.
Nigeria: Cody ChesnuTT Defense Force @ Mar 21st 2008 2:19PM
I don't know about the PSN service, but the majority of the Virtual Console is quite crappy. And I've got a feeling the WiiWare service will end up the same. Most web portal games are rather poor as well.
Maybe this is how it's always going to be: a disproportionate amount of poor games crowding out the good.
dabamf @ Mar 21st 2008 2:22PM
I own a PS3 only, and I think that the offerings on the PSN are pretty dang sweet. There's a few lousy one's in there, but for the most part I've been very satisfied. Sony has stated that they emphasize Quality over Quantity on the PSN. Maybe that's just an excuse, but overall I think they're hitting their marks. How is your hard drive space for the Virtual Console?
Nigeria: Cody ChesnuTT Defense Force @ Mar 21st 2008 2:38PM
I think I've got just over 1000 blocks, which means 4 more N64 games. Though, after I get Kirby 64 I don't think they'll be anymore worthwhile 64 games to get (apart from those old wrestling games, maybe).
And with the glut of crappy Snes/Mega Drive games...urgh. It just seems there's too much crap to wade through. If you know what you're looking for it's ok, but we can't even trial the games to see if they're any good, or plain garbage. (Looks Comiczone in the eye)
cold school @ Mar 21st 2008 2:22PM
So, in other words; my games not selling, Whaa, whaa whaaa.
Sorry, Raigan, not gonna pay $10 for a stick figure platformer flash game.
OwlBoy @ Mar 21st 2008 3:45PM
Ding Ding Ding.
Jacksons @ Mar 21st 2008 4:26PM
No kidding. If you're going to chastise all your peers on a platform, you'd better have at least a handful of great products. Acting that cocky and only having a passable flash game in your portfolio is pretty rude.
Brad Lee @ Mar 23rd 2008 2:26PM
Same here.
I tried N+ and thought the game was difficult to control, which is extremely bad for a platformer. It just felt slippery to me.
It's the same as when that Space Giraffe guy was running his mouth. His game LOOKED fun, but was way too difficult to tell what was going on.
Rubix42 @ Mar 21st 2008 2:22PM
(Applauds!)
Great to see someone else is right about this. I'll take the PSN updates of like 1 good game a month over 4 crap XBLA titles anyday.
Kizzle @ Mar 21st 2008 3:12PM
That's like someone who makes 10 bucks an hour telling someone who makes six figures "I don't even want all that extra money anyway!"
Utter nonsense. With the PS3 you're limited to a couple of games a month, usually good. With the X360 you're given three or four times that many, and you can demo them before buying...meanwhile, their good games are easily as good as anything on the PS3's service.
Don't like it, don't buy it. But don't pretend that you actually prefer having fewer games to choose from.
Rubix42 @ Mar 21st 2008 3:33PM
Well, if I was a random consumer (ie-not an internet video game junky)looking at a store shelf with Bioshock, Halo 3, CoD4 and Mass Effect on it, I would buy all of them.
If I was looking at a shelf with Bioshock, Halo3, CoD4, Mass Effect, Bomberman Act Zero, Cabela Big Buck hunter, Assassin's creed, games x, y, z, and 14 others, I would probably go to Blockbuster and rent the one with the best cover art.
Seriously, from a mass consumer standpoint, people who read Joystiq are not the people who buy 5 million copies of Guitar Hero. Too much crap on any system will kill it. I give you Atari and Nintendo Wii as examples. The attach rate to the Wii is garbage because people buy a couple of cool looking games, and decide that all Wii games are a waste of money. Prime example of this is my parents. Now they ask me about every game before they buy, and normally just rent them.
Benny @ Mar 22nd 2008 12:31PM
Given that the PS2, Wii and DS have more crap than anything totally defeats your argument Rubix.
You can't have things both ways: a mega selling console that has only a small number of good games and nothing else? Get real.
dantebk @ Mar 21st 2008 2:25PM
Sorry, but I don't think N+ is all that great. Maybe the levels after the tutorial get better, but the free trial didn't provide anything very interesting. For a game with 300+ levels (they say), you'd think they could spare one or two of the good ones for the demo. I'm not going to spend $10 on the full game when the demo showed me nothing to be excited about.
-Dante
http://www.gamestache.com/
Markez @ Mar 21st 2008 3:15PM
I wonder if anybody else is getting tired of your consistent and blatant self-promotion. I bit this time, just in time to see your rip off 'what are you playing' piece and a review of Zack & Wiki? When did that game come out? Very original.
You just trying to build up webhits or what? Well done.
dantebk @ Mar 21st 2008 3:22PM
It's just my blog, what's the big deal? If you don't want to read it, then you don't have to.
I reviewed Zack & Wiki because that's what I played. If I buy an NES game from the 80s on my Wii, I might review that as well. It's a personal blog, that's what they're for.
Most websites have a feature where you can put your personal site in so when someone clicks your name, it'll take them there. Joystiq doesn't have that, so I sign my comments with it instead. If someone at Joystiq tells me they have a problem with that, then I'll happily stop.
Maybe you should take a step back, realize I'm not doing anything personally against you, and find something more important to rail against.
NATO_Duke @ Mar 21st 2008 4:10PM
dantebk, Joystiq does have that feature.
When you click my name it goes to the blog page here that allows you to then go to my webpage if you look at the link under my name in the profile block. So if folks were intersted in me, they can do that. No need to pimp it.
Srayer @ Mar 21st 2008 5:10PM
I agree with Markez. I don't comment often, but I read all the stories and most of the comments on a daily basis. Seeing the link at the end of your posts is akin to seeing an advertisment - obnoxious. Most of your comments to me are inane and seem to be made simply to promote your blog.
I personally can't take someone seriously who pimps his website each time he posts.
Tiger of PTS @ Mar 21st 2008 6:29PM
Yeah I really never post here very much either, but I just had to make a post to emphasize and underscore how much of a douchbag you look like for posting that here.
Seriously.
hvnlysoldr @ Apr 12th 2008 7:19PM
I'm on the bandwagon. Put it in your profile page.
Psykoboy2 @ Mar 21st 2008 2:26PM
To steal a bit of the thunder here, you should check out the interview that we did with them on Evil Avatar Radio:
http://www.evilavatarradio.com/?p=134
ZForce915 @ Mar 21st 2008 2:25PM
I think it is almost shocking how honest he is being. There does seem to be a little bit of frustrated tone to his voice because the "shit" is making it hard for his game to stand out. I think there is a lot of truth to what he says, a lot of games are uninspired or at the very least, way overpriced.
Ken Edwards @ Mar 21st 2008 2:27PM
Lets not forget that the all mighty Microsoft neutered N+ right before it hit XBLA. It was going to have a level sharing repository, Microsoft is being foolish and is scared shitless of user generated content, and axed that game mode. Now you can only share with people on your friends list.
So the developers have axe to grind, and they are grinding it in the best way possible, in public.
MasterInsan0 @ Mar 21st 2008 4:25PM
It's simple: someone could make a level shaped like the word "Fuckshit" or something and share it. Then, little Timmy downloads this level and plays it on the 50 inch high definition living room TV for Mom, Dad, Sis, Bro, and Dog to see. Suddenly Microsoft has a lawsuit on their hands because they exposed little Timmy to objectionable content.
That's why MS is scared shitless of user-created content.
Ken Edwards @ Mar 21st 2008 5:22PM
Sure, it is a double edged sword. But the community would police itself. Crap like "fuckshit" and the many, many, penis stages would be voted down.
Besides, Microsoft *already has* the parental controls in place. You can, as of right now, chose not to display video from people not in your friends list. You can do that for UNO, for example. Or, you can chose to display video from people not in your friends list.
How would user-generated levels for a game such as N+ be any different than the video from UNO (which can be much more explicit than "fuckshit" in an N+ level).
This could be done if Microsoft chose to. Instead they are being sissy and not even addressing the issue.
Mr.ESC @ Mar 21st 2008 2:29PM
That's good but when are these guys going to fix the saving system in N+. You have to go to settings and save there otherwise all you did was in vain.
Saneless @ Mar 21st 2008 2:37PM
What do you mean? I don't seem to have a problem saving.. unless I'm screwy and don't notice it.
I 100% agree without even reading the article yet, charging for pics and themes is beyond retarded. Maybe if they were 50 cents, but 2 bucks for a theme? Blow me. 1.25 for pics? You've GOTTA be shitting me. It's paying them to advertise for them.. retarded.
NATO_Duke @ Mar 21st 2008 2:37PM
Its true that a lot of the games on XBLA are crap, but there are some gems in there. Nobody has to buy them, and it offers a lot of choice for people.
Think of the games that you don't want to play because they look like crap, and then realize that to others those games look great. For every Hexic lover there's a person who thinks thats the dumbest game around.
The pay for themes and pix program is plain weak. It's simply bilking people.
Co @ Mar 21st 2008 3:04PM
Get outta here with that logical jargon.
NATO_Duke @ Mar 21st 2008 3:12PM
I'm sorry. You're right. I feel ashamed now.
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Mar 21st 2008 2:38PM
The proportion of shit to good is probably the same for the xbla as it is for full games. Besides, MS knows that some people will still buy shit games, even if it's Space Giraffe.
Regardless, I find it a chore to play through demos, and I often delete them after a very brief play-through.
LiqwidZero @ Mar 21st 2008 2:38PM
They best not be calling Chessmasters Live "shit". I getting to where I'm fucking loving that game!
umm....hello??? @ Mar 21st 2008 2:39PM
so indie developers aren't allowed to make a profit on crappy games but big publishing companies are (Superman anyone)??
to the N+ developers--your game stands out, its just the DRM issues that suck and make it difficult to buy a game that's only available to play while being linked to the internet (stupid DLC too---like songs purchased for RockBand). how about railing against that instead??
and why keep developing the same game that's already free in Flash (yeah, flOw fits in this category too) to try and make money off it?? thx but no thx.
Easo @ Mar 21st 2008 2:51PM
I've had no problem playing games and DLC on my 360 when its not connected to the internet. A few months ago, I took it on a trip where I had no internet connection, and everything worked just fine. Maybe I'm special, but I doubt it.
baby sea tuna @ Mar 21st 2008 3:00PM
Easo, I think you must be special. I took my HDD over a friend's house without Internet connectivity, and it refused to load my Rock Band DLC, even though we were using my profile and everything. However, when I hooked it up to a LIVE connected house, it pinged my GT to the server, and the content worked just fine.
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Mar 21st 2008 3:06PM
The DRM kicks in and forces you to connect to the internet when you try to play the game on a different 360.
Let's say you try to bring it to a friend's house, or even worse (and more likely) your box red rings and you get a new console. DRM kicks in.
For the love of god, can we please put some pressure on MS to fucking fix the DRM? Please???
baby sea tuna @ Mar 21st 2008 4:06PM
Please?!
Seconded.
Vager @ Mar 21st 2008 2:45PM
They need to implement some user star rating system with comments. So it's easier to find what games are good or crap. Have some kind of top 10 list.