N+ devs stand behind recent XBLA comments
by Scott Jon Siegel 
{ Mar 24th 2008 at 8:30PM }
It's not exactly an apology, as Metanet still cites a number of problems with XBLA. The developer does go on to state that the criticism is largely meant to be constructive, however, and that there are still plenty of positive aspects to Microsoft's digital distribution service. Prostrating or not, we hope Metanet and Microsoft kiss and make up soon, as we still hope to see Robotology on XBLA sometime in the future.
[Via X3F]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
psyborg @ Mar 24th 2008 8:50PM
Like I said on the Fanboy site, XBLA is getting alot of hate lately I think its a good service personally.
Jhongerkong @ Mar 24th 2008 9:47PM
Good for customers, not for developers (it seems).
Mr.ESC @ Mar 25th 2008 3:03AM
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers.
Xbox 306,Microsoft,Developers one thing leaves to the other.
sifer2400 @ Mar 24th 2008 8:55PM
i just baought golden axe today great game any one willing to help me out get the final achievement
Delgado @ Mar 25th 2008 9:24PM
On that note, if anyone out there spends their time creating levels on N+, put your Gamertag here so I can friend you and reap the benefits from your toil.
aMac @ Mar 24th 2008 8:58PM
It's good to see they aren't backing down on what they said. I think the fact that they mention the interview happened -before- N+ was released is important, and their comments weren't just a reaction to bad sales
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 24th 2008 9:06PM
I guess it's good if you think they are right... I think they're idiots.
aMac @ Mar 24th 2008 9:22PM
If they're going to make bold statements like they did, even if you don't agree with them, you've got to respect that they're not wussing out and retracting them just because they've been getting some negative attention.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 24th 2008 9:25PM
OK... true, true.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 25th 2008 1:27AM
LOL... I got voted down for saying they are idiots? Sure, it may be admirable that they are sticking to their guns, but that doesn't make their stance any less idiotic. BTW, have any of you bothered to go read their comment in the link? On one hand they do make a few good points, but on the other they call games like New Super Mario Bros and Super Stardust HD crap... neither are anywhere close to being crap. So I still by my statement too... these guys are idiots.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 25th 2008 1:28AM
*still stick by
modified @ Mar 25th 2008 2:48AM
@Vidikron (FU)
They said the New Super Mario Bros sucked in comparison to Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 25th 2008 3:02AM
@modified
No, they said it "pretty much sucked" and then said "especially" when compared to those games. In other words, it sucks... and sucks even more when compared to those games.
vanuslux @ Mar 24th 2008 9:14PM
While there certainly is a fair amount of crap on XBLA, I don't think the ratio is that much worse than the good-to-crap ratio of the retail games. I think the biggest problem with XBLA is that a lot of good but not great games are overpriced or under-developed.
ScottyGEE32 @ Mar 24th 2008 9:57PM
"Those who point out that retail has the exact same problem as XBLA are correct — but that doesn’t somehow diffuse our argument, if anything it just reinforces it since XBLA was meant to correct the problems endemic to retail games and that whole shebang. If my soup tastes like garbage, I would hope that the waiter’s explanation isn’t “yes, but most of the food we serve here tastes like garbage”!"
Benny @ Mar 25th 2008 10:15AM
But what do you expect? A massively successful service to only produce decent quality games? How about we get real here. There's a lot of demand for XBLA games, so developers make crap to cash in and make a quick buck. If XBLA was a niche service, you would expect a higher ratio of quality to crap, because there's not the incentive of an easy profit. Only the developers really committed (and thus more likely to make higher quality games) would release titles.
Yeah, there probably is need for a rating system to separate the good and bad games out there, but this is just a ridiculous bitch-fest from the N+ devs. Sure, if they want to individually complain about it, as consumers, then fair enough. But to have only released one game of note and then slate the system collectively is just egotistical. Don't bite the hand that feeds you: make better games and change things for yourself.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Mar 25th 2008 1:20PM
You make an awesome point Benny, but I just have to do this.
But what do you expect? A massively successful console to only produce decent quality games? How about we get real here. There's a lot of demand for Wii games, so developers make crap to cash in and make a quick buck. If Wii was a niche service, you would expect a higher ratio of quality to crap, because there's not the incentive of an easy profit. Only the developers really committed (and thus more likely to make higher quality games) would release titles.
Benny @ Mar 25th 2008 2:29PM
Yeah I agree completely. Wii and DS shovelware just further proves the point.
bigd7387 @ Mar 24th 2008 9:16PM
Considering the amount of content that is provided by the MS Service, I don't see anything but positives. Take in account how little the offerings are from the other services, I still think that MS is the only choice to get peoples games to market, other than the PC market only crowd.
Jake11 @ Mar 24th 2008 9:24PM
XBLA's response: The N+ developers are doodyheads
343 Guilty Fart @ Mar 25th 2008 2:04PM
I met that easter bunny, true story.
CB @ Mar 24th 2008 9:29PM
It seems as if most of the complaints for XBLA are the amount of game rehashes and file size limit. Limiting rehashes and raising/completely removing the size limit, wouldn't it be win-win then?
Jcarpio @ Mar 24th 2008 9:29PM
While there is alot of crap out there on the service. At least the users have a chance to try out a free demo to decide for themselves. Unlike the other services so far.
I have to say though, there has been a greater number of quality games that have been released on the service this year compared to last year already. And it looks like it's just going to get better with the likes of Bionic Commando, Dishwasher and Ikaruga.
F1 @ Mar 24th 2008 9:37PM
Though I agree with much of what Microsoft does I must say that their memory limits they have in place really is a barrier in front of them. Of course there is the fact that if they do stretch out their limit then XBLM could get over crowded. Though this can be fixed by simply hiring game testers to rate how good a game is(somewhere in the range of 50+ to get a fair perspective) that way they kill off 2 birds with one stone: The quality of their games and space issues.
ScottyGEE32 @ Mar 24th 2008 9:56PM
To me there are only 3 games worth owning on XBLA. Alien hominid, N+and geometry wars...To possibly make my point stronger, all of those games are available in one form or another for free somewhere else.
Honestly comparing features of N+ and alien hominid (800 MSPOINTS) against, say, every other XBLA game, and you'll notice that they dominate. Especially when compared to shitty shityy SHITTY retro remakes I don't give a crap about. These are just straight ports offering nothing new (unlike the ones I've bought) and I can easily get better homebrew versions on the internet.
ChooChooCharlie (Brawl: 1504-5357-9285) @ Mar 24th 2008 9:59PM
You forgot Rez. Uno is good too.
Unless of course you already owned it on PS2, in which case, nevermind.
AoE @ Mar 24th 2008 10:04PM
Alien Hominid I will not argue the point with, it's one of the best games out there, regardless of platform or genre... As far as N+ though?
Honestly dude if this game is a high-water mark for you, I'm surprised you aren't all over XBLA... N+ is... graphically AND gameplay speaking... kinda crap compared to all of the non-retro titles. Have you tried stuff like Pacman Championship Edition? (hint: if you don't respond with "yes, and it's digital crack" everyone who has played it will know you're full of crap)What about Rez? Cloning Clyde? Can you point me to the spot on the internet you get all the free Cloning Clyde, E4, Lumines, etc. from? I thought I knew how to find free shit online... but it sounds like you've got me beat.
Tiptup300 @ Mar 24th 2008 10:15PM
Marble Blast Ultra, SoTN!
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 25th 2008 1:24AM
I'll go further than that and ask what's wrong with game like Hexic or the other casual games like Bejeweled and Jewel Quest? They may not appeal to the hardcore audience as much, but they are good casual games. My wife loves those games. Or what about a game like Pinball FX? If you haven't tried it out, you should. Again, being a pinball game the audience may be limited, but that doesn't mean it's not a good game
John McPoop @ Mar 24th 2008 10:49PM
I was browsing some XBLA games just now and honestly there is a very nice selection of games... I still say Pixel Junk Monsters is my favorite DL game of all time but XBLA is one hell of a service.... I hope the Wii Ware service tunrs out similar to the PSN and XBLA in terms of quality... I also hope they release a HDD for storage purposes b/c I refuse to buy an SD card to flip flop through games on...PSN pales in comparison to XBLA in terms of sheer volume but it makes up for it with some quality games (PJ Monsters, PAIN, High Velocity, fLoW, Everyday Shooter amongst others). Live just offers such a diverse set of games from all genres thats its tough to compare to it... With more quantity you will see less quality but there are still a lot of gems for the 360's XBLA service. The addition of the Community Arcade will certainly add more to that as well.... The Virtual Console is great and all but I want to see some original IPs from Nintendo through the Wii Ware service... And as I said something has to be done in terms of a HDD or removable media that the wii can boot up from... How is it Nintendo can get everything right in terms of 1 simple SKU and wagge motion IR controls but miss so badly on the Online component and HDD storage capacity.... Its almost scary how much better this system would be with a little cheap HDD space and a solid online architecture...Hopefully we get games better than that kitten mollestation castle defender crap...
vanuslux @ Mar 24th 2008 11:08PM
@ScottyGEE32 - Maybe I'm just picky or something, but I can't think of a restaurant I've ever been to that I've liked everything on the menu. Most places, my selections stay within ten percent of the menu items and I think most people are the same way...but their favorite ten percent isn't my favorite ten percent and I'm not the kind of person that feels the need to equate something that's not to my personal tastes to crap. Personally, while I think N+ is a fine game it's not my cup of tea...I'd buy Word Puzzle long before I'd buy N+ because I like word seek puzzles more than platforming puzzles...but I'm not paying for either of them anyway because I don't think either of them are worth $10.
Shogan @ Mar 24th 2008 11:08PM
They need a better way of sorting the games. Sometimes, I just want to see Arcade games, and I don't mean NEARLY EVERY GAME ON THERE. Puzzle games, board games, Arcade Ports, Console ports, etc. There's good stuff on the service for sure, but whoever designs their menu system should be shot... with a water gun. Repeatedly.
psyborg @ Mar 24th 2008 11:57PM
XBLA has Doom, therefore XBLA rocks.
/thread
psyborg @ Mar 25th 2008 12:01AM
But I do agree with aMac, its admirable that they didn't go back on their word and even more admirable to state their true opinions in the first place.
ok now /thread.
rTwelve @ Mar 25th 2008 1:27AM
Not Even DooM justifies mediocre titles.
Mr.ESC @ Mar 25th 2008 3:20AM
Oh another NEDM reference. You know I'm pissed about the use of that fad because while YTMND'ers say is a pro animal rights is more like a morbid fad for retarded teenagers. So unless you are a morbid teenager please stop the use of NEDM is not funny,is just sad.
Anyway mediocre, I don’t think so Tim.
I respect N developers in a way but I don’t think N itself gives them the rights to insult all the games in the xbox live.I don’t think even Cliffy B has the rights to do that.
Vidikron (FU) @ Mar 25th 2008 1:28AM
*still stick by
GoonieGooGoo @ Mar 25th 2008 1:30AM
I think the N+ developers are bitter their game didn't sell as well as they expected.
Sure XBLA has alot of games...not all good....but as in anything COMPETITION BREEDS QUALITY.
If N+ can't stand out enough to beat an arcade classic like DISCS OF TRON...or BOMBERMAN or a simple game like UNO....
Thats on them....not the service.
modified @ Mar 25th 2008 2:43AM
One little problem with your statement. The original comments they made were before their game was released. Hard to be pissed about sales numbers when they don't exist yet.
Benny @ Mar 25th 2008 12:15PM
Everyone knows game developers have pre-cognitive abilities, dummy!
Mr.ESC @ Mar 25th 2008 3:11AM
They say the xbox arcade is full of crap and they don't eve fix the damn game.
N+ is sort of brilliant in a way but full of bad decisions and some bugs also that if they didn't accept MS terms in the first place why they agreed? Yeah I know money and now that the thing went wrong they regret the decision.
They are complaining that MS forced them to release the game in 800p which is still acceptable for something like N+ even if it is free on the Pc and that’s my opinion I mean at least they tried but funny how Sierra online can place a game like Assault Heroes in 400P and they can’t.
Pro-Truth League @ Mar 25th 2008 4:09AM
Didn't they want to let people openly swap maps, and have custom maps openly available, but MS said no? If anything, this should get them to release their full on wrath on the idiots at MS.
baby sea tuna @ Mar 25th 2008 9:08AM
Yeah...but (right or wrong) who draws more water, the developers of some no-name title like N+, or the biggest software house in the world? It's good that they've got the balls to say what they believe, butI don't think these guys should actively be pissing Microsoft off.
Cutty @ Mar 25th 2008 8:37AM
I agree with their comments on the way Xbox Live Arcade works - there are a lot of crappy games on there and nothing is going to get done about it. However, pulling out great games like Halo, New Super Mario Bros. and Super Stardust HD as 'justification' is something I do not agree with at all. How can we take their "loads of XBLA games are crap" when they're grouping these critically-acclaimed games with the XBLA stinkers in question?
Logic Bus @ Mar 25th 2008 9:23AM
I totally agree that most of the games on XBLA are crap. Early on in the service, when new games finally started to release on a regular basis, I'd download and play every demo, and then not buy the full game. At some point I just stopped trying the demos.
Why can't every single XBLA game look as good as say, New Super Mario Bros?
Brad Lee @ Mar 25th 2008 10:45AM
I think the problem with these guys is the language they're using. Phrases like "total crap" and "utter garbage" aren't typically used for debate or "opening dialogue," they're mostly just for trashtalking.
If they want to have a proper dialogue they should use language that isn't so inflammatory and back up some of their statements better. Simply saying that New Super Mario Bros. sucked does not do wonders for their credibility. I thought NSMB was an enjoyable platformer, but it was over too quickly and had no replay value and didn't have the same whimsical imagination as SMB3. See what I did there? I presented my opinion in an analytical way instead of just saying that compared to SMB3, NSMB sucked.
They make a good point that no matter what some people will like a game and some will not. But there IS some amount of objectivity there, otherwise we wouldn't have video game critics because what would be the point? By looking at how a game is designed, the presentation of the game, and various technical aspects (bugs? smooth frame rate? etc.), critics can fairly accurately tell an audience whether or not a game is "good."
They may not enjoy Halo's style of gameplay, but I hope they can admit that the games are well designed with incredible presentation values and virtually flawless technical aspects. I personally distaste Halo's multiplayer competition, especially after my COD4 obsession, but I do still admit that it's designed well. I'm just saying it's not my style of gameplay, because for an FPS it seems way too focused on "controlling" the power weapons of the map, and the game in general plays too slow for my tastes.
The problem with most XBLA games (and far too many retail games) is that many are not designed well, have terrible presentation, and at times shotty technical flaws.
hvnlysoldr @ Apr 13th 2008 1:08PM
I agree with the ninja. Always side with the ninja.