Anti-gaming Times columnist gets 'Coopered' on Amazon
Normally, we wouldn't be in favor of a mob mentality, but look at some of these reviews! "Going to Central Asia? That sounds a bit too much like a hobby to me. I would never dream of reading/doing something for fun, whats the point of doing something if it isnt improving yourself?" We also like, "Being told to read this book before passing judgement feels like being told to immerse myself in smack and teenage pregnancy." You know what that is? That's a confirmed burn.
[Via VG247]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Markez @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:52AM
"Whittell's book is getting lambasted in Amazon reviews." At time of this posting, it's a whopping 13 customer reviews?
That's getting lambasted, and a mob scene?
Co @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:54AM
lol, beat me to it.
Justin McElroy @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:58AM
Well, you may have a case with "mob scene" but "lambasted" has nothing to do with the amount of people doing it.
I'm also kind of assuming that (like Lawrence) Amazon deleted some. Also, it's not just this book: http://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Continental-Blowing-Through-Central/dp/0575400072/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in
Zertoss @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:02AM
Hahaha I'm laughing way too hard at the reviews suggesting investing your money in more useful things, like video games, smack and teen pregnancies.
Co @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:04AM
Good point Justin. I bet that guy is paying someone to monitor that page lol
Markez @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:09AM
Well I stand corrected, rather than one book they're attacking his whole catalog, lol. I've really enjoyed the rise of reader reviews and reader comments on books, articles and so on. Needless to say the reader comments posted on the local fishwrap's article entitled "When it comes to sex, length (of time) matters: Sex therapists say 3-13 minutes is best" were pretty priceless.
Vidikron (FU) @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:38AM
Keep in mind that Amazon may also be deleting these reviews. They did the same thing with Cooper's book as well.
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:11PM
It went up to 16!
Mr.ESC @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:31PM
Amazon comments proportionate good amounts of lulz thanks to their epic failure.
Lol @ the guy recommending kotaku as a traveling guide.
Co @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:53AM
Yea, but there's only 13 reviews. Cooper's Amazon page had alot more than that and was still at a 1 star rating.
Still, that's some funny shit.
Nigeria: Cody ChesnuTT Defense Force @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:58AM
WTF was up with that WoW comment.
I had a real goofy grin on my face reading that.
Intya @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:00AM
Probably because it's also an English thing. Give it time to make it's way around the forums in Blighty and it'll be near enough the same. I heartily invite all those across the sea to come & review the book, as I will be doing once I get out of the work firewall!
Co @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:02AM
lol u like that Nigeria? I just felt like pissin soem people off. However, I really WOULD play a Hello Kitty MMO before I play WoW.
PojoMofo @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:59AM
its UK, so a lot of us cant post a review, probably why not too many reviews.
Tyler Jones @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:59AM
These people need to learn to stop talking crap about us gamers. Not liking videogames is fine, comparing us to druggies and preggo teenagers isnt, amiright?
Markez @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:10AM
But please, let's not forget that we can be, nay, should aspire to be preggo druggie teenage gamers.
Nigeria: Cody ChesnuTT Defense Force @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:03AM
What's the point of one starring this guy's book?
On the link Justin posted, it shows he has a sales rank of 2,257,700. I don't think many people were buying the book anyways.
It just seems like a real waste of time. Should we really encourage moar mob justice on the internet?
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:02PM
You don't remember the Cooper Lawrence Incident. She badmouthed mass effect on Fox News, gamers rated her book into the ground using her exact words from the news story, and she later stated a retraction for what she said about the game.
Its the gamers form of protest.
Nigeria: Cody ChesnuTT Defense Force @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:13PM
I remember Cooper, and I didn't think one starring her book was appropriate then, either. In fact, I believe it might have given her even more publicity, aiding her quest to sell more books. Though, I don't believe the result will be the same in this case.
You are right: it is a form of protest. It's easy and relatively anonymous. But it's a little juvenile. Not that I disagree with juvenility: I'm just saying.
GRT @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:24PM
It doesn't even look like the book is still in print. I really don't think these bad reviews are going to effect him in any way.
Anyway I'm with Nigeria on this one. I'm not sure I see the point, really. Cooper's book was new and she in the midst of promoting it, so she really felt the sting. But I don't think it should be some universal form of protest, because at some point you just start doing a disservice to other people (those genuinely interested in buying the book) and then they just come away thinking "Yeah, these gamers really are a nuisance." and that kind of defeats the purpose.
NCteacher @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:28PM
Well Nigeria, I really do not have a Tiananmen square to go stand in front of Giles Whittel-esque tanks so i'm gonna 1 star the shit out of his books, if only we all could be good model citizens...
Dr. Strangel0ve @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:09AM
Here's the US page for his book
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1860110762/ref=cm_cr_thx_view
Unless you feel that making these reviews is a waste of time.
Negativecool @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:20AM
Agh...three chears to the power of the internet savy gamer. We are a powerful bunch when you piss us off:)
I would literally shit myself laughing if Giles Whittell's official response to this was "No fair! HAxorS!"
Ben @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:21AM
Amazon isnt' the only place he's getting blasted.
From digg: http://www.arsgeek.com/?p=3796
"Pregnant teens, heroin addicts cry foul over Times Online editorial comparing them to gamers."
Negativecool @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:22AM
If the word "justice" is involved? Hell yes we should. If it is just to slam someone's work just because? No.
Negativecool @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:23AM
God dammit! Sorry, that was a reply to Nigeria.
dantebk @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:28AM
I, like most folks, don't like to see bad things happen to people, but in the case of something like this, I see it more as a valuable learning tool for the guy. It's like if you have a cat that keeps walking too close to the fan, and so you keep shooing it away so its tail doesn't get hit by a blade, then one day you let it happen so the cat will finally learn the consequences of its carelessness.
Yes I'm comparing this man to a less-than-average-intelligence cat.
Kewlrats @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:39AM
I love the fact that "getting Coopered" is quickly become a part of our lexicon!
Is there a "getting Coopered" Wikipedia entry yet?
Justin McElroy @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:48AM
I just made it up (clever, I know) I hope it blows up.
Kewlrats @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:51AM
I knew I Facebooked you for a reason.
born2kill @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:42AM
Can those idiots even read? He didnt say video games= smack, pregnancy;; all he said is that he doesnt need to be a hardcore gamer, nor a pregnant junkie to comment on these subjects. Next time these retards comment on anything they are not immersed in (ie. the war in iraq) they get beaten to death with this guys books.
Farseer (GDI) @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:57AM
Is anyone else having trouble with subject/direct object relationships in this comment? I read through it three times and still have no fucking idea who "the idiots", "he", and "these retards" are.
born2kill,am I supposed to be in support of your tirade or offended by it? I just don't know...
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:07PM
You really must not understand language to understand that he was directly comparing gaming to teen pregnancy and heroin, without actually saying so.
The idiot here is you.
For example. He could have said "Being told to ... before passing judgement feels like being told to immerse myself in hunting and bowling."
If he had the meaning you say he had, a comment like this would have sufficed. But he chose "smack and teen pregnancy" because they are 2 undesirable aspects of society that he wanted his readers to equate to gaming in their minds.
He deserves to be roasted for his comments.
Farseer (GDI) @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:24PM
Thank you Crono, that clears things up. :)
fatherb @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:34PM
Well I will agree with "comment on anything they are not immersed in (ie. the war in iraq) they get beaten to death with this guys books." but I dont think these people (ie. Giles Whittell bashers) are retarded.
driven2sin @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:43PM
stop reading, and attack!
born2kill @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:46PM
@Farseer.. The idiots are the ones who are 'coopering' this guy without even knowing what he's said. They read blogs like this and assume hes another jack thompson whos saying games=drugs=teen pregnancy, which is not at all whats he's said.
@Crono.. #1 dont call me an idiot, you ignorant pussy. #2 He made a very specific point of saying his criticism were not that games were wrong or bad. READ THE DAM ARTICLE #3 He can use whatever analogy he wants to make his point that there are certain subjects that society comments on all the time, which they are not immersed in. #4 Its fine to defend gaming, but alot of mindless, asshole gamers are getting carried away and theyre getting very dogmatic over shit they have no clue about.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:20PM
No, you're still an idiot.
Call me a pussy again. Well get this thread to stretch to page 2.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:25PM
Oh, and you're being far to literal in your interpretation of his editorial. Read my first comment to you again, slowly. He chose to compare video games to smack and teen pregnancy to draw a direct correlation in the minds of his readers. He also left a lame disclaimer that ignorant folks like you are taking to be his true meanings, when his editorial clearly dictates differently.
Markez @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:35PM
Ooooh, buuuuuuuurn.
Epic contests of who gets the last word FTW!!!
5 pages I say!
JMARR @ Apr 3rd 2008 2:55PM
yep Born2kill isn't getting it
smack is a definite known bad thing to do and so is teen preggers (usually) and so he's right to say that he doesn't need to immerse himself in those things to know that they are bad. but to lump all video games into the 'known bad' pile isn't the same thing. it's like saying he doesn't need to read a book to know that all books are bad. it's different, it's ignorant and it's wrong. however, it is his opinion which technically can't be wrong but he sure can get lambasted because of it.
born2kill @ Apr 3rd 2008 2:51PM
@Crono... So youre not happy because you think he's comparing games to heroin and teen pregnancy, which obviously you feel are not very positive. How do you know that heroin and teen pregnancy are not the greatest, most awesome things ever??? Have you been a heroin junkie yourself? Have you been a pregnant teen? If either of those answers are no, and you still have a negative view of heroin/teen pregnancy then you know exactly what hes saying. You dont need live something in order to comment on it. And if you actually read the whole article, you would clearly see that he was not saying anything bad about gaming, beyond the fact that it consumes alot of time (which it f'n does).
If you want argue that games don't necessarily take as much time away from real life as he's claiming, thats fine; but youre not going to say that hes saying that games are harmful/dangerous as drugs, because he specifically says that is not true...period
JMARR @ Apr 3rd 2008 3:17PM
@born2kill
i read the article and I still think you're off base.
'waste of time' is a completely subjective thing to say - one person's waste of time is another's nectar of life. I don't want to read the Harry Potter books but I would never say that people who do are wasting their time.
you really think he arbitrarily chose smack and teen preggers? and you think he's right to imply that the entire realm of video games go in the 'known bad' pile like these 2 specific activities? it's a horrible analogy he's made because it exposes his enormous ignorance on the subject. sure, he doesn't need to immerse himself in smack to know it's bad, but he needs to at least know what smack is.
Crono (NDF - Knight of the Old School) @ Apr 3rd 2008 3:40PM
If you can't understand that he's utilizing a psychological technique to lead his readers to equate smack and teen pregnancy with games, then there's really nothing more to be said. Its irrelevant that he's put a disclaimer in there to save face when he's proven wrong, the tag line people are going to remember and be impacted by is the teen pregnancy one.
born2kill @ Apr 3rd 2008 3:49PM
#1 Its meant to be subjective, its his editorial. If he were a scientist claiming that his objective research shows games are a waste of time, then you could call him out on it. #2 Its a fair analogy if you read the sentence which follows it, where he says games are not themselves the problem; just that the time spent on games is being misused. If you substitue games with reading harry potter books, going to church (IMO), replying to blogs, etc. etc. the point remains that it diverts time away from the real world, which he loves and wants his children to get the most out of. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with those sentiments. #3 My cousin, who is a HUGE gamer and is anything but ignorant has told long ago, then when he has kids, hes not getting them into games either because they have taken tons of time away from his childhood. He goes snowboarding, scubadiving, parachuting frequently now, which he never did when he was obsessed with goldeneye back in the days. So its a very fair opinion, which this columnist is getting harrased for holding.
JMARR @ Apr 3rd 2008 4:47PM
ok, so some people consider snowboarding a waste of time. would you say that snowboarding is a waste of time just like doing heroin without ever having tried snowboarding? and if you did, you wouldn't expect that snowboarders might take offense at such foolishness?
the analogy is made worse by the next sentence. He's making a comparison of a generalization to a specific activity - ALL video games are a waste of time like doing smack. let's say I play a video game version of chess where it's proven to improve certain brain functions... hmmm, the analogy breaks down pretty quickly once you find a positive use for video games - there was a study a while back that showed surgeons become better at their job after playing video games. to say that no good use can come from video games is as ignorant as it gets.
wait, oh now i get it, you're just arguing for the sake of argument. moving along, nothing to see here.
born2kill @ Apr 3rd 2008 7:46PM
This is truly retarded.
Let me say this again, the man likes the 'real' world and taking part in activities therein. He doesnt think games are bad/wrong, just that they consume a hell of alot of time (3 hours/day on avg.) from kids that could be spent in the non-virtual world. Therefore its perfectly understandable that he takes the position that activites like games, drugs, etc. are a waste, because they can really distract kids from real life. He doesnt need to be immersed in gaming to know that, anymore than you need to watch paint dry for 3 hours a day to know its boring. And besides that, I know people (like my cousin) who hold the same position and have been immersed in gaming. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with what hes said, nor his creditials to say it. Being offended by it is extremely ignorant, immature, and overly defensive.
Now: 'move along, nothing to see here'
JMARR @ Apr 4th 2008 9:42AM
>> This is truly retarded.
right, because to disagree with you is completely out of the question.
>> He doesnt think games are bad/wrong, just that they consume a hell of alot of time (3 hours/day on avg.) from kids that could be spent in the non-virtual world.
ok first of all he says it's a 'waste' of time, not just 'comsume' a lot of time - all the 'real world' activities he likes also consume a lot of time. if something is a waste of time, it means that there is nothing positive to be gained. this point he makes exposes his ignorance to the fact that a video game (or an activity derived from the technology) can actually have positive effects on you which makes those activities not a waste of time regardless of how much time they take.
secondly, he's talking about ALL video games and ALL video game players (hint: he's stereotyping). this also points to his ignorance because not all video games take a long time or are distracting to 'real world' activities. I know lots of people who play video games AND go snowboarding - wow, how can you possibly do both? forget the fact that if I sit down and play tetris for 10mins, I've somehow consumed and wasted a colossal amount time. the picture he paints is of the extreme game addict - yes those people have a problem but they are the fringe, not the norm which shows his ignorance of gamers.
thirdly, he's comparing a generalization to specific activities so the analogy doesn't have legs. also, it doesn't matter that he says 'games aren't bad' or even that 'smack isn't bad', that's a deflection. for his broken analogy to work, he had to pick truly awful activities to illustrate his point that he doesn't need to learn about those things to know they have a bad affect (yes, he really does mean that a waste of time is a bad thing).
fourth, "immersed for decades at a time"? do y ou know anyone who has been immersed for decades at a time? this means that for 10+ years, someone has done nothing but games. There have been a couple of people who sort of tried this and they died after about 100 hours.
the guy is a toolbag and clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. Why would you defend his ignorance? I understand defending his right to his opinion, but is ignorance is harmful, deliberately closed-minded and misleading to others who are as ignorant as he is (hint: there's a lot of them).
>> Being offended by it is extremely ignorant, immature, and overly defensive.
i'm not offended by his opinion, I'm offended by his ignorance on the subject - a subject I know a lot more about than he does. He put his statements out in the wild for everyone to see and comment on, tell me again why we shouldn't comment on it?
nmezib @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:31PM
get out the bandages, he'll be coming in with 3rd degree BURNS!
GRT @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:38PM
Another difference between this guy and Cooper is this: Cooper was stating something as a fact that was not true. And insulting another person in the process (Keighley). It was like she was saying the world was flat and maligning Keighley who was pointing out the truth of the spherical nature of our planet.
In this case, the author is posting an editorial. In other words, his opinion of something. Yes, it's an ignorant opinion (in my, ahem, opinion) and an unpopular one, but its just an opinion.
And on some level I almost can relate. It is kind of sad when you see parents taking the time and energy to take their kids somewhere pretty cool (say, a science museum, or a neat natural landmark) and the kids are so engrossed in their DS that they don't even look up to see what's around them. But that, as is so often the case, comes down to poor parenting I think.
It'd be just as sad to see the kid's nose in a comic book, and of course 40 years ago people were writing the same kinds of editorials about how horrible comic books were.