After perusing the lengthy list of fixes and "game experience enhancements" contained in Criterion's second update for Burnout Paradise – codenamed: Bogart – we're not sure how to respond. Should we applaud the new age of connected consoles, where increasingly sophisticated games can (and are!) patched and tweaked, smoothing out the ragged edges until all that remains is a shiny, smooth pebble? Or decry the now all-too-common practice of ship first, patch later? Reality is probably somewhere in between, so we're happy that Criterion is making the effort with an already very well received game.
The update includes everything from from "high priority" fixes to the "top 10 problems" identified by users. Fixes seem to be concentrated on online functionality and some interesting balancing tweaks; for example, Criterion explains, "We fixed Head-on Takedowns as these seemed generally unfair and unrealistic. Unfair low speed Takedowns have now been eradicated." Bogart pulls into the XBL and PSN filling stations on April 24, about seven weeks after the first patch.
Reader Comments (33)
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 2:32PM (Unverified) said
Burnour Pair of Dice...
I want to pick this game... it's still $60?
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I want to pick this game... it's still $60?
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 5:12PM ThornedVenom said
Why would he whine about that? He's a Wii60 gamer.
He doesn't pretend his Wii is bigger than yours, he just says that Sony sucks balls, which is the essence of trolling.
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He doesn't pretend his Wii is bigger than yours, he just says that Sony sucks balls, which is the essence of trolling.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 8:00PM (Unverified) said
Hey Fernando why don't you save your $60.00 and buy yourself a fucking clue ... Oh yeah last check Gran Turismo Prologue was around 900,000 + copies sold not counting PSN purchases ...
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 8:16PM (Unverified) said
Why is everyone attacking me?
I really want to buy this game... I just ask if the price is stil 60 dlls.
Dont know why I get attacked on this one.
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I really want to buy this game... I just ask if the price is stil 60 dlls.
Dont know why I get attacked on this one.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 2:52PM fadywwf316 said
Well, I think that the ship first, patch later mentality might make some sense but is completely not true. Back in the day, only PC games were patched and updated (sometimes with gamer feedback). Console games were plagued by, what you get...is what you'll always get unless a Game of the Year edition came out with fixes and updates. Patches, and often ones, are great, although they do sometimes introduce new issues; but I wouldn't have it any other way personally since game developers are humans too...they can never make a 100% perfect game without glitches...unless its pong haha.
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 2:56PM foxhound said
Now... I don't want to get anyone fired for this; but what's the damned point of having testers & QA for a game if they miss blatently obvious faults with the game?
Sorry, I think I'm still bitter from talk/typing about that frackin' SONIC THE HEDGEHOG game in the other article. >_
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Sorry, I think I'm still bitter from talk/typing about that frackin' SONIC THE HEDGEHOG game in the other article. >_
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 3:14PM ludwigk said
QA only makes the game as good as development wants it to be. Production specifies what to test and how it should function, and QA makes sure that those criterion are met. QA doesn't typically say 'this feature is unbalanced, or unfun, or this UI is frustrating', unless they are specifically asked for feedback, and even then, production might say, 'thanks for the feedback, we like it this way." So, it just isn't their job. Its up to producers to fine-tune features and designers to make sure that the mechanics are well made.
In fact, when a game ships with bugs, its usually not because QA didn't find them. In the last stages of the game, directors and producers decide which bugs are necessary to fix, and which are 'known shippable', that is, the bug isn't too bad, or its likely impact (based on user path and reproduction rates) is low enough that the potential risk introduced by trying to fix it makes it not worth addressing. Most games ship with HUNDREDS of known bugs that QA finds, and development doesn't deem worthy to fix, and that is just how the game industry works.
From TFA, it sounds like a lot of these changes were requests and balance tweaks, none of which fall under the scope of QA testing.
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In fact, when a game ships with bugs, its usually not because QA didn't find them. In the last stages of the game, directors and producers decide which bugs are necessary to fix, and which are 'known shippable', that is, the bug isn't too bad, or its likely impact (based on user path and reproduction rates) is low enough that the potential risk introduced by trying to fix it makes it not worth addressing. Most games ship with HUNDREDS of known bugs that QA finds, and development doesn't deem worthy to fix, and that is just how the game industry works.
From TFA, it sounds like a lot of these changes were requests and balance tweaks, none of which fall under the scope of QA testing.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 3:13PM Ranus Studios said
Would that I cared about playing online. Maybe this "unfair low speed" fix will make a difference, though.
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 3:15PM darkinchworm said
Other high priority issues that have been fixed:
* Instances where Barrel rolls were not registering correctly in Stunt Run.
NOW I can do a barrel roll!
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* Instances where Barrel rolls were not registering correctly in Stunt Run.
NOW I can do a barrel roll!
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 3:58PM spin cycle said
Criterion said last week that this would be out the 24th. Monday (the 7th)'s podcast said it was progressing through Sony's qualification faster than expected and it might show up sooner than they thought. They implied it would be ready this week!
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 4:18PM (Unverified) said
But no arrow indicator or scrolling map? The biggest fault with Burnout Paradise is that it's 'too open', meaning that it's all to easy to miss turns or go the wrong way because the map doesn't follow you and there is little-to-no indication of how to reach your destination.
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 5:34PM (Unverified) said
re:But no arrow indicator or scrolling map? The biggest fault with Burnout Paradise is that it's 'too open', meaning that it's all to easy to miss turns or go the wrong way because the map doesn't follow you and there is little-to-no indication of how to reach your destination.
Exactly why I didn't purchase this title. That and the ads.
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Exactly why I didn't purchase this title. That and the ads.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 6:34PM spin cycle said
The map does scroll, and the the street signs do flash before you reach the corner*.
Additionally, the street signs have different sounds for left and right so you don't even have to look up to tell which way to turn.
*street signs don't flash before the corner if you are running a race and there is a numbered race marker at the corner. It works fine on all other corners. I wish they would fix this bug.
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Additionally, the street signs have different sounds for left and right so you don't even have to look up to tell which way to turn.
*street signs don't flash before the corner if you are running a race and there is a numbered race marker at the corner. It works fine on all other corners. I wish they would fix this bug.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 6:37PM (Unverified) said
Sorry, I should have been more clear. By scroll I meant rotate. When you're driving at 150MPH you don't have time to decide that when your arrow is pointing left, you have to drive right to make it point downwards. =D
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 11:47PM spin cycle said
Sometimes I wish it rotated too. I think that having it as it is makes it easier to memorize the map, because North is always up. In that view, if you know you want to go NW (the 8 race destinations are at the cardinal points), you can see which direction is NW.
But other times I fall victim to what you say, so I wish it rotated then. All in all, you really need to learn the map to do well and then that corner map doesn't matter as much.
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But other times I fall victim to what you say, so I wish it rotated then. All in all, you really need to learn the map to do well and then that corner map doesn't matter as much.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 4:58PM hey buddy said
This game shipped completely playable, and it's excellent. This is NOT a case of 'Ship now, Fix later' as seems to be the gist of this post. In the past, the things 'wrong' with Burnout Paradise would have been accepted at face value and lived with - not called fatal flaws as implied here. There are games that fit the bill of 'Ship now, Fix later' far more easily than Burnout Paradise.
The fixes here represent how things are now, and the upside in internet-based patching: a good game gets some enhancements (new levels/areas and vehicles) and fixes via the internet. "You want perfection? We can tweak the game and give it to you." I have little problem with this sort of patch.
I will agree with Cutty's sentiment, however - this game lacks the 'Jump in and RACE with your friends online' aspect that the previous Burnout games have had - Pity the poor blighter who just started playing, it's so open that it's very easy to make a wrong turn, or simply make a 'slightly wrong' turn, and lose a race within the first 10 seconds while your friends, who know the city better, dash off in the distance - It really could have used a 'closed course' mode like the old games, with the old red-arrow invisible barriers, to allow for straight-up decision-free racin'.
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The fixes here represent how things are now, and the upside in internet-based patching: a good game gets some enhancements (new levels/areas and vehicles) and fixes via the internet. "You want perfection? We can tweak the game and give it to you." I have little problem with this sort of patch.
I will agree with Cutty's sentiment, however - this game lacks the 'Jump in and RACE with your friends online' aspect that the previous Burnout games have had - Pity the poor blighter who just started playing, it's so open that it's very easy to make a wrong turn, or simply make a 'slightly wrong' turn, and lose a race within the first 10 seconds while your friends, who know the city better, dash off in the distance - It really could have used a 'closed course' mode like the old games, with the old red-arrow invisible barriers, to allow for straight-up decision-free racin'.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 5:24PM chrisgrant said
Not what I meant at all:
"Reality is probably somewhere in between, so we're happy that Criterion is making the effort with an already very well received game."
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"Reality is probably somewhere in between, so we're happy that Criterion is making the effort with an already very well received game."
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 6:29PM (Unverified) said
first off, i began to see myself agreeing with you. then you oost me totally at the end. what are you getting at exactly?
@lost idiot. learn the city, thats the point of the openness, dork. "i got lost in the first 10 seconds of a race, yet my friends WHOM KNOW THE CITY FAIRLY WELL", see how stupid the comment went right there? want closed play, goback to the ps2/xbox burnouts and stay outta my server, please.
i appluad criterion for their efforts in making such a great game, and then making it better. thanks you criterion, thanks alot.
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@lost idiot. learn the city, thats the point of the openness, dork. "i got lost in the first 10 seconds of a race, yet my friends WHOM KNOW THE CITY FAIRLY WELL", see how stupid the comment went right there? want closed play, goback to the ps2/xbox burnouts and stay outta my server, please.
i appluad criterion for their efforts in making such a great game, and then making it better. thanks you criterion, thanks alot.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 6:36PM spin cycle said
First patch was PS3 only and came out the day the game came out. The thing fixed didn't affect 360 so it wasn't patched.
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Posted: Apr 9th 2008 7:03PM hey buddy said
Oh, my.
Dear ThinkingOf:
Maybe I didn't make myself clear: I like the game as it is. I didn't mention 'getting lost' in the first ten seconds of a race, but I did mention 'losing in the first ten seconds.' It's hard to recover from a wrong turn in this game. The issue I have with playing online with friends of mine who purchased the game a few weeks later than I did is this: they simply don't know the intricacies of the the city as well as I do, and in turn, I don't know the city as well as another friend of ours, who easily finishes 10 seconds ahead of all of us. I'm sure I would get destroyed playing with strangers who live and breathe games like this.
"Practice More!" you no doubt will type (seems there's no "in-between" on the internet), but the point is, no one in my group wants to play the race mode anymore - the addictive 'try again!' aspect is incredibly small for heavily-trounced beginners, so I suggested a closed-course MODE, an OPTION than could be turned on.
Well, no real concern if you don't agree. We all are allowed opinions on this.
By the way, is there really a problem with the sentence "know the city better?" I doubt you'd try correcting my grammar but couldn't be bothered to put together a cohesive paragraph, correctly spell words like 'lost' and makes up others like 'alot.' Or would you? Nah.
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Dear ThinkingOf:
Maybe I didn't make myself clear: I like the game as it is. I didn't mention 'getting lost' in the first ten seconds of a race, but I did mention 'losing in the first ten seconds.' It's hard to recover from a wrong turn in this game. The issue I have with playing online with friends of mine who purchased the game a few weeks later than I did is this: they simply don't know the intricacies of the the city as well as I do, and in turn, I don't know the city as well as another friend of ours, who easily finishes 10 seconds ahead of all of us. I'm sure I would get destroyed playing with strangers who live and breathe games like this.
"Practice More!" you no doubt will type (seems there's no "in-between" on the internet), but the point is, no one in my group wants to play the race mode anymore - the addictive 'try again!' aspect is incredibly small for heavily-trounced beginners, so I suggested a closed-course MODE, an OPTION than could be turned on.
Well, no real concern if you don't agree. We all are allowed opinions on this.
By the way, is there really a problem with the sentence "know the city better?" I doubt you'd try correcting my grammar but couldn't be bothered to put together a cohesive paragraph, correctly spell words like 'lost' and makes up others like 'alot.' Or would you? Nah.
Posted: Apr 9th 2008 8:51PM (Unverified) said
At least Criterion knows how to treat their paying customers on the PS3. Infinity Ward should take note.
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Posted: Apr 19th 2008 8:23PM hvnlysoldr said
Obligatory eye patch post and not quite lamenting ship first mentality
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