MTV talks to black professionals in gaming
Similar to the last series, topics of discussion include the perception of black people in games, the struggles with diversity in the industry and how it affects the end product (i.e. the game). Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and Gears of War's character Cole Train are discussed on multiple occasions. Concluding his interview, Croal threw out an idea for a Dance Dance Revolution title that would actually teach you how to dance, which the rhythmically-deficient folks at Joystiq would love to get our off-time hands on.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
coolforever4537 @ Apr 10th 2008 2:14AM
Wow, the first thing I thought of when I saw that picture was Milli Vanilli.
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 2:17AM
and that is why you're a racist
WiiSports Machine...Fernandos in disguise PSN: Killjebus @ Apr 10th 2008 8:45AM
"and that is why you're a racist"
And that is why you are an eeediot.
It was a joke, relax...get off your politically correct soapbox.
RACISM DOES NOT EXIST. There is NO such thing as racism. Last time I checked Homosapiens were the last and ONLY humanoid species left on Earth.
You can be Ethnist, NOT racist. There is ONLY 1 human race with many different ethnicities.
I wish I could be alive when the day finally comes that everyone on this planet is referred too as Human.
NO Jews, Christians, Muslims, White, Black, Buddist, Hindu etc. etc. JUST HUMAN, that is all any of us ever were, and that is ALL we will ever be.
No groups to spread the separation of humankind. Nothing.
I AM HUMAN, I AM ALIVE.
James Lockwood @ Apr 10th 2008 8:52AM
You mean one species: Humanity. There are many races if you go by the Dictionary definition (Religion, unfortunately is classed as race). There are scientifically (let's drop the PC BS)3 races; Asian, African & European. Yes, I'm well aware we all originated in Africa and have ONE common ancestor, but we have evolved differently. For more info, listen to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe (back episodes).
WiiSports Machine...Fernandos in disguise PSN: Killjebus @ Apr 10th 2008 9:08AM
"You mean one species: Humanity. There are many races if you go by the Dictionary definition (Religion, unfortunately is classed as race)."
James, I did say species, specifically Humanoid species. I am aware of the dictionary definition of race. In my opinion, dictionary or not...it is still out of ignorance that most people on this planet think they are different races and NOT the same species. That is why I said what I said.
"Yes, I'm well aware we all originated in Africa and have ONE common ancestor, but we have evolved differently."
Prepare for Fernandos and pals to give you some shit for saying that, some people around here do not like what the OVERWHELMING evidence shows us and prefer to live in Organized Ignorance.
"For more info, listen to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe (back episodes)."
Thanks, I will check it out. Just out of curiosity, I am going to guess that you are not from the United States or at least you live NORTH of the Mason Dixon line.
Mike @ Apr 10th 2008 12:24PM
That day will never come. Racism in the USA is really strong. Outside of the US it's not that big of a deal.
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 10:21AM
@killjebus
Do you overreact to everything in day to day life like you do on the internet? It's a joke, though I could try and come up with some form of defense, "hey collforever, does every black person with dreadlocks look the same to you?"
That was a joke.
WiiSports Machine...Fernandos in disguise PSN: Killjebus @ Apr 10th 2008 11:22AM
Sorry Schmil,
I have seen way too many times posters on this blog get their panties in a bunch over a joke. I have been numbed by the crying and moaning on here so I thought that you were doing the same.
Now that I know you were kidding in response to the 1st sarcastic comment....BRAVO to you sir.
Vichus Smth @ Apr 10th 2008 8:11PM
Wow, they do exist! I'm glad I heard of this feature from MTV. I think that black creators need to be spotlighted because I think that people like me, black geeks/nerds, the ones who are growing up in this age of the massive, growing gaming industry.
I don't think kids talk much about heroes who work "behind the camera." They definitely don't as much as they talk about entertainers.
Love it!
Mr Khan @ Apr 14th 2008 4:46PM
I always figured there were 6 races: Caucasian, East Asian, West Asian, African, La Raza, and American Indian
Debikul @ Apr 10th 2008 2:19AM
You know damn well that if it said "white professionals" there would be a fucking riot. Is it me, or does the article seem a little racist? I myself am a black man, and I don't see how all men are equal in this day and age when articles such as the above discriminate in a politically correct fashion.
I expect a follow up report on white guys in the gaming industry.
Happiness @ Apr 10th 2008 2:27AM
You're worse... making a big deal out of nothing.
"Something about black people? Like we aren't normal people we need to have our own reports??? RACISM!!"
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 2:29AM
So i guess we should have a white history month as well to balance everything out.
rokerovakero @ Apr 10th 2008 5:29AM
America likes to keep everything separated, race, class, education, religion, everything.
Here in Mexico we separate everything too, but not as racist as americans have, we have:
short and tall
fat and skinny
old and young
rich and poor
city people and county people
nice person and bad person
Now the used to call our people "latinos" since there were to many countries to learn, then they started calling people mexicans, since all they heard was Mexico. Now they call all latinamericans "browns", at least they are enough now to be segregated by race like the american tradition tells us.
And I agree that the term "African-american" is offensive, africans and europeans came at the same time, so I don't see why you guys have accepted the term. you all are the same gringos to me.
And I love the GRINGAS too...
Skitch_ @ Apr 10th 2008 5:35AM
Positive discrimination....look it up.
The fact of the matter is that, equality is quite equal just yet.
You've got the patriarchal (or phallocentric to use another fancy word) white male dominated industries. Last year, this was about women in gaming, this year it's about blacks. Two underpresented groups in gaming. The main purpose of this stuff is to change social attitudes and raise awareness so that we can live in a truly equal society.
And please, don't try to act like racism doesn't exist...
Maverick Saturn @ Apr 10th 2008 5:44AM
Well, to counter your statement Shmil, everyday we learn about white history. Had it when I was young, doing school and even now, history channel etc. Thats not a bad thing at all, all forms of history are intersting.
But I don't think 1 dedicated month in the whole year that black people should really be celebrating thier history and whatnot instead of just a month, is too much to ask for.
ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ Apr 10th 2008 5:46AM
I cringe every damn time somebody says the word "positive discrimination", because discrimination is still discriminatory, therefore it's not "positive".
fawazr @ Apr 10th 2008 6:13AM
"So i guess we should have a white history month as well to balance everything out."
Why should whites settle for a month when the rest of the year already belongs to them?
Plus, being given a month to placate a few vocal activists isn't as hot as it sounds.
MasterInsan0 @ Apr 10th 2008 8:39AM
My theory has always been that by even using the word racism, you are perpetuating it, because you're perpetuating the idea that there's something to discriminate against. In a perfect world, race wouldn't even be acknowledged--at least not any more than, say, eye color.
Of course, this isn't a perfect world, so perhaps my theory is just wishful thinking.
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 10:18AM
Please do not take my sarcastic jokes as racism. I live in the south, so I'm accused of being a racists more times than you'd think. I was just pointing out that by Debikul's logic, we should have a White History Month as well.
This argument just reminds me of the concept of hate crimes. They're retarded an only further segregate our country.
embassy @ Apr 10th 2008 2:27AM
i think the main issue is that gaming is so young, i think its too young to be critical of the diversity of any kind (race/gender). we should have this discussion in another 10-20 yrs and see where the curve is.
i mus tsay though, the stereotypes in video games is rather over-the-top, but so are most things in video games..so thats something that smoothens out over time as well i guess.
as for debikul, i hope you're joking.
coolforever4537 @ Apr 10th 2008 2:30AM
How was I racist?
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 2:33AM
its called a joke
Ethan @ Apr 10th 2008 5:13AM
Scmil ur racist.
Haha funny.
Shmil (Brawl Code 2621-2310-1994) @ Apr 10th 2008 10:22AM
Efhan
ur dislexic
haha
ChimpWithAHandgun @ Apr 10th 2008 2:59AM
I can't wait to hear what they say about Cole Train. I just got the game, and every time I hear him talk, I just shake my head and wonder why does whoever wrote this character hate black people (j/k, but really)
rTwelve @ Apr 10th 2008 3:07AM
I'm pretty sure he's more of a parody of a football player. (Cole was a former thrashball player.)
Consult the voice actor's previous work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
In addition, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Lone Starr @ Apr 10th 2008 3:15AM
I am probably going to get flak, but I think this needs to be said.
Why do we have stuff like this? Why do we need to profile black professionals? What if we had a white professionals talk? Wouldn't everybody call that racist?
So many people pride themselves in being supporters of racial equality and diversity yet go out of their way to single out one race for a pat on the back. To me, that's not saying that blacks are equal. It's saying blacks need special attention because for some reason, when they're succesful that's a big deal. It's expecting less from blacks than whites. How is that not racist?
Some might counter that history or economic status justifies this sort of thing, but people who say this are ignorant of both. It simply makes no sense.
Political correctness is a sham; it's a "big business." Those who truly believe in racial equality won't discriminate (whether positively or negatively) based on race.
embassy @ Apr 10th 2008 4:26AM
well..in a perfect world...women, and minorities would get equal exposure in all industries and positions thus nullifying articles like this...but since we *dont* live in a perfect world...we have to highlight prominment/successful people of varying races/gender mainly to reinforce that non-white males do in fact exist outside of sports, music and acting. Cuz unfortunately the everyday minority businessman/woman doesnt get much exposure/attention.
Maverick Saturn @ Apr 10th 2008 5:49AM
The gaming industry was and is segregated, only now is it changing, more youths are playing, more females are playing, more older people are playing, and more cultures and races are playing.
There was a time when main characters were one race, and females were seen as half naked etc. Now games are becoming more diverse, even females getting better roles, take Heavenly Sword for 1 example and the days of DOA type women are dying out. Although there will always be games to portray women in that way to appeal to drooling men.
Same with race, different cultures and races have more parts in games, which is a great thing to see. What we need now is more cultural icons of different races in the industry.
fawazr @ Apr 10th 2008 5:54AM
I'd say coverage like this provides role models that encourage a number of blacks to pursue different avenues. Believe it or not, many people rely heavily on societal cues to begin their journeys to self-actualization.
Now, if you're an American of European descent, you have the privilege of having adequate representation in virtually every field imaginable. That same level of representation doesn't exist for non-whites, so it's refreshing to cite instances where the status quo is occasionally broken, especially in an industry where nearly all non-whites are portrayed in embarrassing and unfavorable ways.
Your outrage shows a lack of empathy on your part. Were you really oblivious to the fact that, with the exception of articles like the one in question, just about all profiles ARE profiles of white professionals? Sure, it isn't explicitly racist when most game coverage centers entirely on white players in the industry, but you find it explicitly racist when a bit of coverage is focused on blacks? Wow... next time be more direct in your convictions without trying to sound so noble.
Lone Starr @ Apr 10th 2008 12:59PM
Farwazr,
I lack empathy? Wow. Do you even know what race I am or did you make an assumption to that end as well? You totally mischaracterized my argument and position:
"Sure, it isn't explicitly racist when most game coverage centers entirely on white players in the industry, but you find it explicitly racist when a bit of coverage is focused on blacks?"
There are two things wrong with your argument. First, I have never seen an example of game coverage focusing on white players because they are white. Perhaps you could give me an example? Second, if I ever did see that, you assume that I would not have the same amount of outrage. That is totally untrue. If I saw a profiling of white gamers strictly because they were white, I would be just as pissed off. Don't make the mistake of thinking otherwise.
And you say this industry portrays "nearly all non-whites" in "embarassing and unfavorable ways." That simply is not factual.
SPARTACVS @ Apr 10th 2008 3:17AM
"Cole Train"? WTF his name is Pvt. Augustus Cole. He CALLS HIMSELF "The Cole Train". lol
hmm @ Apr 10th 2008 3:47AM
It seems a bit patronising that MTV even needs to bring this issue up. Race shouldn't be an issue any more, and we shouldn't need to go "Hey, look, these guys work in games, and they're BLACK!"
Curmeo @ Apr 10th 2008 4:13AM
the great Michael Jordan said it best himself: "I realize that I'm black, but I like to be viewed as a person, and this is everybody's wish."
DangerMouse @ Apr 10th 2008 4:28AM
MTV is fucking dog shit. Every one of there articles is cringe worthy, and this is no exception. This is another attempt to attract people by making a controversial topic, and racism is a very effective one, at that.
Sidepocket @ Apr 10th 2008 5:04AM
Just like we should not kill or rape or steal anymore.
Sorry, world is not like that.
Maverick Saturn @ Apr 10th 2008 5:50AM
Very true, but I think MTV is just targeting them because we are seen as a minority in the gaming industry, so its interesting to identify our point of view on the game industry as a whole as it currently stands.
riggs @ Apr 10th 2008 8:10AM
if you actually believe this country has equality in everyway you need to open your eyes. its better than past years yes, but we have a long fucking way to go.
FifthE1ement @ Apr 10th 2008 4:03AM
I agree with Shmil! Black people want racism to go away yet they bring up the topic more than any other ethnic group. If black people throw an on-street demonstration they're called activists while if white people do the same things they're called KKK members, WTF? Black people need to get over themselves since my parents didn't own slaves, nor did theirs, or theirs, or theirs, or theirs... If every group called racist (wolf) as much as the blacks, nothing would ever get done. The Irish were treated like crap when they came to this country just like many other ethnic groups across the generations... but there is no use crying over spilt milk...
And don't even get me started on the word “African American”... BS as that would make me an Irish-German-Russian American. They are no more African than I am. And BTW I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm simply tired of seeing races getting special treatment for simply being a specific ethnicity. Fair is fair and we've all paid our dues in one way or another. That is the main reason there is so much wrong with our country (USA) today since everyone is always fighting over being black, white, asian, etc as we should simply be classifying ourselves as Americans!
FifthE1ement
silkylove @ Apr 10th 2008 4:24AM
The article is written by Tracey John; a white woman. She's profiling underrepresented groups in videogames. Last year she did women. This year she did African-Americans. What's the problem? I read an article a few years back on Eminem and how he was able to break into the rap game as a white man. I didn't cry "ZOMG RAIYCISMMM!!!" after I read that article. What's wrong with trying to further diversity in game design? By the way, your "KKK" and "black people need to get over themselves" comments make you sound like an idiot. Why don’t you take that kind of stuff back to stormfront.org
Sidepocket @ Apr 10th 2008 4:32AM
Although I agree that black people take it too far, there are two problems with the stuff you stated:
1) Very few Irish people were ever enslaved. The whole population was not tricked and sold by there own people to work all day with no chance of freedom, treated like true animals instead of mere servants and did not last as long with then major tolerance issues afterwards. Basically, the majority of the intolerance ended in the 80's. The short small and only stint of Irish Slavery by the Brits ended in the 17th century. Huge differences.
2)While I do not like pride, I do not see any reason why you should not be proud of who you are. However, the difference between "Black Pride" and the "KKK" is huge. Mainly, the Black Pride stuff I have seen never resulted in them thinking they are vastly superior and then going out on a crusade to kill all the white people they see.
When that happens, the situation will truly be equal and I bet it will. But for now, you can have white pride, but you can thank the "ghost of the south" for ruining something as simple as the wonderful Saint Patrick's Day. :)
fawazr @ Apr 10th 2008 5:56AM
"Basically, the majority of the intolerance ended in the 80's."
Yet the ignorance persists...
Maverick Saturn @ Apr 10th 2008 6:14AM
Black pride is a 'defence'.
KKK is an 'offence'.
fawazr @ Apr 10th 2008 6:24AM
The KKK IS defense. They aggressively defend what they see as a God-given ideology of what it means to be American. I'm not defending them, just pointing out that things aren't so simple... nothing's that black and white. Everyone is righteous in his own mind.
Maverick Saturn @ Apr 10th 2008 6:27AM
Very true
DangerMouse @ Apr 10th 2008 4:19AM
What? Black people in the video game industry? I HAD NO IDEA!!!!
I kid of course, but if that were true, you know why? Because i really don't know many game creators unless I'm a huge fan of there game or it's a person from a company involved in Public Relations. And maybe even then it's two or three people I'm aware of. Bottom line, I don't know what you look like and I don't really care to know, either. I'm just here to play your games. If you're white, black, asian, whatever, all i care about is you NOT fucking up the sequel.
Baldanders @ Apr 10th 2008 4:24AM
This is just a report on a minority who are part of a large community. Wether that minority is, black, female, gay or disabled because they are a minority they wont get heard as much as the majority so sombody has gone and done a report on it. Those who say oh why the focus on black people oh its "PC gone mad" need to really look into it. Its just a report on a minority nothing more nothing less no racism no nothing other than a report on what a small group within a large group think about the community they are part of. And thats how you need to take the article. Not the "oh why are they giving such people a voice they are just the same as everyone else".
Sidepocket @ Apr 10th 2008 4:32AM
Even though it is not as big of an issue that people make it out to be, it is an issue. Just like Women in Video Games were.
The reason I care is because I like the diversity. People from all over the place bring new things and I think with the way things are we are stuck in a rut.
Also that with diversity we can then equal the other industries more than just superficially like we do now.
I also relate this imbalanced issue to why minorities in games are written so poorly.
Now do I mean every black person in a video game has to be P.C. black men who are lawyers ala Bill Cosby? No. I do not really mind the watermelon eating Jim Crow rejects because you will meet those people in real life too.
The problem with games is that EVERY black guy is a Jim Crow reject. So then you either start questioning it or start thinking that everyone is like that. Hence the stereotype.
I do not blame White Americans and Japanese people for doing this because you only write things that are familiar to you. If you write about something you are not familiar with, you end up looking to common perception to dictate how things are. Thus why Square Enix made as something as dumb as Barret.
I think the solution to this problem, and most of the other problems this industry has is education. I realized at GDC'08 that I am like one of 8 people that played video games young and then when I reached 12 said "I want to make these things for real."
Think about it. Kids are told they can be doctors, rappers, lawyers, magicians, priest, actors, movie directors. I never ever hear kids who want to be game designers, or programmers, or testers ect.
I think we need to make an awareness group that travels to various schools to teach kids when they hit pre-teens (when you are being told that if you have a penis you like sports and if you are girl you like makeup) that teaches them about games and how their games are created.
I think if the options are opened up then we can see some real diversity and influx into our industry, and the others will go away to become smart consumers and critics of the form. When those children grow up, they will then truly add gaming to the ranks of movies, tv, books and plays.
Then I can die happy. :)
embassy @ Apr 10th 2008 4:34AM
really, im glad i see alot of level-headed people in here canceling out the retardation..it seems whenever the word "black" is mentioned or "minority" people want to throw up the "we're all equal" BS or the "isn't this racism?" card. please. get over yourselves.
people always try to use topics like this to "vent" thier (unsolicited/unwanted and usually horribly skewed) race views and race/gender relation issues.
no one cares. keep it moving.