Forget parents, EU tells industry to protect children
EU Consumer Protection Commissioner Meglena Kuneva wins the quote-of-the-day award for saying, "When children go out to play today they enter the world of joysticks. We are not quite sure where they go and there is real anxiety from parents." Here's an idea: Talk to your children and ask ... or better yet, try some of the games yourself! For the EU commission to get off the industry's back it would like to see the Pan European Games Information (PEGI) symbols become familiar to the public. The clock is ticking, Europe.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
theturtle363 @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:04PM
Katey Segal lol
343 Guilty Fart @ Apr 23rd 2008 1:59PM
Uhhh I was looking at Christina Applegate.
aMac @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:04PM
Sigh. Personal responsibility continues to die out
Phinehas @ Apr 23rd 2008 11:15AM
Which personal responsibility are you talking about? That of parents? Or that of content creators?
A Pissed-off English Gamer @ Apr 23rd 2008 12:02PM
To me the traumatic moments of childhood were those scarce occasions when i stepped out into the world to find most of its inhabitants painfully retarded. Seriously, though, this isn't good for Europe; as if the UKIP needed any more ammunition to throw at the EU, fortunately you quite a degree of intergovernmental unanimity to pass EU legislation, and even after that it can still get batted down by staunch opposition in parliament. I hope the Treaty of Lisbon hasn't made this any easier to pass. And to think, i'm pro-european *tear*.
albinogoldfish @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:08PM
And I thought the US did some stupid crap, at least all the dumb ass laws about games that try to get passed here are rejected...
Poisoned Al @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:08PM
And Europe still doesn't understand why we still pretend not to be with them.
Jansperus @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:09PM
You silly Americans and your censorship laws! If only you'd follow in the footsteps of enlightened Europe. I, a typical European noble, raise my nose to you prudish Americans and your Puritanic ways.
-Frenchy McFrenchFrench, Esquire
t_m @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:29AM
Your Mother Is a Hamster and Your Father Smells of Elderberries!!
Tim The Enchanter @ Apr 23rd 2008 10:15AM
I sneeze at you! I fart in your general direction
Lone Starr @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:21PM
"We are not quite sure where they go and there is real anxiety from parents."
Anxiety from parents who don't care enough to protect their own children?
You can do better than that.
MasterOfMagic @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:28AM
"If a parent is dumb enough to be conned by their child to buy them a M rated game (or 18+ or whatever the European rating is) then they are just plain bad parents."
When I was a teenager and had a job, I would regularly give money to my parents to buy M rated games because local game shops required ID for M rated games. They did this because I had good grades, I was never involved in a fight at school, I had a relatively normal social life, and I understood the difference between fantasy and reality. Their only objection to gaming was spending their money on it.
I'm now an employed, mid-twenties computer programmer that's setting up an indie game developing studio. I still game a reasonable number of hours a day (0-1 on the weeknights, 1-2 on the weekends) and am about to start my PhD in Computer Science. In other words, video game violence, naughty language, and sexuality didn't warp my fragile little mind.
The reason that the ESRB and PEGI exist is to act as a guideline for parents. I'm not against M rated games being sold like R rated movies so long as it's done in the same fashion as the movie industry (voluntarily).
Alex @ Apr 23rd 2008 11:16AM
I'm agreeing with MasterofMagic. I live in the UK, and I'm 16 now. I remember playing MGS1 on the PS1(Which was a recommended 15+) when I was about 9. I now play games like Bioshock, Condemned, Dead Rising, Hitman and Gears. I'm fine, have friends, never killed/stabbed/shot anyone, and I think I'm generally a good person. I can also clearly see what the difference is between a game and real life.
I hate it how every time I turn on the TV, all I see on the News is games like Manhunt and Bioshock being blamed for people murdering each other. (Bioshock footage is a favourite on GMTV's 'violent game reports', I also remember people trying to impose a *total* ban on the sale of Manhunt 1 and Max Payne 2).
Was Sonic the Hedgehog blamed for animal cruelty? After all, there was a man trying to kill a poor innocent hedgehog...
I'm just annoyed that games get blamed for everything. When there actually is a TOTAL ban on all games, they will try to place blame on 'violent books' in which people die.
I can understand why there are ratings on games, but seriously, if a parent is about to buy Condemned for their 7 year old racist, homophobic son with massive anger problems, you are just asking for trouble.
Ramble over.
John @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:59PM
@Phineaus:
Where do you stand on my right to responsibly own a firearm?
Styki @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:26PM
I understand that parents have a responsibility and a duty to monitor what their kids watch, what they eat, what they play etcetera, but God forbid the video game industry shoulder some responsibility for the content they put out. The typical view here on Joystiq is that the parents are 100% accountable for their kids and everything they play, and and the video game industry has zero responsibility. That point of view is tired and shallow. The game industry does have to do a better job of policing itself. Parents have enough to do without worrying about finding two or three hours to sit down and play GTA, Bully, Zak and Wiki or whatever. This is not about censorship of an art medium. Its about ethics. Im sorry. there is no artistic value to Bully or Hot Coffee.
j. howlett @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:41PM
i hear that their is this ratings board that tells those that are interested whats in games before you buy them. they put descriptions and everything right there on the box. and they even have a website.
Lone Starr @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:41PM
"That point of view is tired and shallow."
Your counter-argument leaves a lot to be desired.
Shmil @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:43PM
...are you high or just stupid?
Shmil @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:49PM
Parents are 100% accountable for what their kids do. If parents don't have enough time to at least pop their heads in and see what their child/children are playing, then they shouldn't be parents in the first place. If a parent is dumb enough to be conned by their child to buy them a M rated game (or 18+ or whatever the European rating is) then they are just plain bad parents. When all of the information of the game is so readily available on the back of the box then the responsibility should fall on the parents.
Batzarro(A.K.A Rap-Rock Cameo) @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:00PM
"The typical view here on Joystiq is that the parents are 100% accountable for their kids and everything they play, and and the video game industry has zero responsibility"
It comes with the territory of having children. It is YOUR responsibility, legally to ensure they continue to live healthy lives. It is also your social responsibility to ensure they are being prepared for life. They don't like it? That's why God invented abstinence and condoms.
So, if most game stores already card gamers, how much more concern does the industry needs?
SoulBlade @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:06PM
You're going to be changing your tune once they take away your porn for the protection of the kiddies.
ballistic3188 @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:08PM
the thing is that they do regulate themselves. they have a rating board that tells right on the box. mature teen and everyone. the basic equivalent of the MPA rating system of PG PG-13 and R. they even have descriptions of what is in there such as nudity tobacco alcohol violence. the retailers also card people on M rated games. Even then consoles like xbox360 has parental controls. that regulate time and rating that can be played and even movies as well.
The tools to prevent your kid from playing the M rated games are there. please use them.
DangerMouse @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:19PM
The problem is most polticians talking this bullshit see video games as a kids toy, when in actuality, it's grown up and evolved with the people rather than people out growing it. Most politicians with a voice loud enough are above 40, well beyond the age where video games would've have made an impact on their youth. They're not seeing a dynamic industry. they see a Wii or a PS3 in the same category as Batman action figures or Lego's, when it's clearly not. Which is why they rarely touch on the movie industry anymore, unless it's extreme.
Kira @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:53PM
Styki,
You are absolutely right. While a parent does have the responsibility to limit a child's time with a game, what game that child leaves the store with, and at least has some interest in the games themselves, the parent is fulfilling thier duty. A parent isn't expected to sit and watch a child play an entire game, but reading content descriptors and observing your child's interests is important.
I think the European Union is just taking a fair and straightforward approach. "Find a way to limit mature content from being sold directly to children and find a way to educate and inform the parents. Kinda like that ESRB group in the States." Hopefully, PEGI will be come an industry standard. Right now, there isn't consistency with two ratings groups and one of the sucks, so let's see PEGI become the standard and let's educate the parents. I'm glad the EU is putting a reasonable goal and isn't just out to control the situation. WTG.
Jansperus @ Apr 23rd 2008 1:28AM
I agree that the industry should be held responsible when it does stupid shit like the Hot Coffee thing and feel that Rockstar deserved the shit they got for being SUCH LAZY ASSES that they didn't remove that altogether and then hid its existence from the ratings board so that they could get the M rating they wanted, and I don't think parents should be expected to be around their children 24/7 like these people on Joystiq think. When they have kids, maybe they'll understand that isn't possible nor prudent for the development of their child. However, as others have more eloquently stated, the gaming industry does already take many steps in protecting children from undesirable content. What more do you want them to do besides possibly not making those games altogether?
Joeshie @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:17AM
@Jansperus
There was no way of accessing the Hot Coffee Mod outside of editing the games files. It's simply silly to try to place the full blame of that incident on Rockstar. The only way to access that part of the game is to actively seek out the unlocking of the content.
It's kind of akin to blaming some company like Valve because they released mod tools that allow you to create naked Alyx skins for Half-Life 2. The only way to actively get that content is to knowingly pursue that content yourself. Should we start policing PC games and give Half-Life 2 an AO rating because of the mods?
I don't expect parents to be watching what their kids do 24/7 and I agree that it was a pretty dumb move on Rockstar's part to leave that stuff in the game. However, how about we quit trying to find a scapegoat to situations like the Hot Coffee mod and put the blame where it partially belongs: on the children.
Jansperus @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:47AM
The difference between Hot Coffee and your example is that Valve isn't creating the naked Alyx skins and putting them on the game files, which, though not immediately accessible, are accessible with a simple code. If they want to do that though, more power to them because it doesn't bother me, but they should at least have the BALLS to suffer the rating that such content will bring (AO) or BRAINS to get rid of it so that people won't INEVITABLY find it.
It's completely Rockstar's fault for their laziness just like it would be Nintendo's complete fault if they had a secret level on Super Mario Galaxy accessible only by an glitch where Mario and Luigi have hot nasty sex while lynching minorities. I don't care how much Shiggy blames the media; if he didn't want it in there, he could have removed it and Mario Galaxy deserves to be rerated to at least a T for that content.
I know it's as fun to blame parents for everything as it was once fun to blame the Jews, but I think that when a company creates content and releases it to the public, even "hidden," they should have the BALLS to deal with the controversy it'll bring.
Phinehas @ Apr 23rd 2008 11:26AM
Yes and no. On the one hand, parents ARE 100% accountable for what their kids play. On the other hand, game developers are 100% accountable for what they create.
There's too much abrogation of responsibility on both sides. If there wasn't, we wouldn't have legal systems trying to step in. And until both sides start accepting responsibility, the legislators aren't going to just go away.
And before someone brings up the First Amendment, I think it is important to recognize the difference between rights and responsibilities. Having a right does not release you from responsibility. Arguably, the more rights and freedoms you have, the more responsibility you need to demonstrate. So, in stating that game creators have responsibilities, I am in no way denying the right to free speech.
John @ Apr 23rd 2008 3:01PM
@Phineaus,
Where do you stand on my right to responsibly own firearms?
there put it in the right reply this time. :)
Phinehas @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:37PM
Hey John,
That's a bit off-topic, but since you asked nicely... :)
As I understand it, the right to bear arms was originally intended to give citizens the power to stand up to a government that grew tyrannical.
On the one hand, it seems that this intention might be a bit outdated given technological advances over the years. A hunting rifle is hardly sufficient to stand against a tyrannical government these days. One would need things like missiles, tanks, etc. It is interesting to me that I never hear about the right to bear arms in relation to nuclear warheads. (!!) In a vain attempt to tie this back to earlier points, one can hopefully see that the right to bear nuclear warheads would come with a hefty amount of responsibility. I suspect that it is a lack of faith in the exercise of such responsibility that keeps us from seriously pursuing the right for ourselves and especially for others. For similar reasons, no one really lobbies hard for the right to keep an armed Abrams M1 in their back yard.
On the other hand, the right to bear arms is still written in the US Bill of Rights. Provisions are in place for making changes when desired. If the right to bear arms is no longer a relevant right, then let's change the Constitution. Otherwise, don't try to do an end run around the right with revisionist decisions from the bench. Personally, I have no problem leaving it the way it is, but if the requirements for changing the Constitution were met, I could live with that too.
John @ Apr 24th 2008 4:59AM
Thanks for the honest reply. I usually find a great deal of hypocrisy on this site where a person is all for one right with responsibility and totally against the same application of a different right in the same manner.
cool to see you aren't one of those tools.
Ethan @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:31PM
"When children go out to play today they enter the world of joysticks."
I think the bigger story here is that children have discovered time travel.
t_m @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:32AM
Phew. Thats a lot cleaner than the image it conjured up in my mind. We'll go with your one...
Joeshie @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:38PM
And Europeans act like they are better off than America.
lol
Poisoned Al @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:42PM
We do not ACT like we're better. We ARE better :D
SoulBlade @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:46PM
At a loss for words... for some reason all I can picture is a bunch of anti video game commercials that are going to be similar to those lame anti herb ones. I have a feeling that's the direction silly groups like this will take things.
GamerChick @ Apr 22nd 2008 9:58PM
Hiking...my Anti-Game
Kizzle @ Apr 22nd 2008 10:23PM
God damn, I miss Married with Children...although only seasons 3-6/7ish...the early and late seasons kind of sucked.
"Where a buck's enough to see their stuff, at the nudie bar.
Where the breasts are fake but man do they shake, at the nudie bar.
Where you swear like a sailor, and wish you could nail her, at the nudie bar.
Where the cops are at the door, and there's a Kennedy on the floor, at the nudie bar.
Where the music stinks, and they water the drinks, the nudie bar.
Where the girlies dance in their underpants, the nudie bar.
Where you see their butt, and their trap stays shut, at the nudie bar.
Where you can't touch a breast, but you can cave in a chest, at the nudie bar.
Where you look at a thigh, and blacken an eye, at the nudie bar.
Where the beer gives you gas, but the Bundys kick ass...at the nudie bar."
Mr.ESC @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:30PM
I love all Married with Children seasons.I was about to downvote you for that but the reference really made me laugh so 1up mate.
FOXHOUND @ Apr 23rd 2008 7:19AM
Indeed, a great show and look at David Faustino rockin' the mullet in the article picture! Classic.
As for the gaming industry as a whole watching out for children... eff that. Every major country(or at least the ones who feature the typical bitchy, outspoken parents who would quickly complain about what content is out there than just shutting it off and stop being lazy)has a standard rating system or guideline. And let's face it... most games, unlike some movies/books out there(including the Holy Bible itself), are pretty distinct in its title. For example, MORTAL KOMBAT, RESIDENT EVIL, GRAND THEFT AUTO, THRILL KILL, and so on are usually blatently obvious to what to expect in its content. And for those exceptions like SILENT HILL, what's an extra 2-5 minutes of wikipedia/googled research to realize it's a survival horror game? Parents, take responsibility for your damn kids. You made'em, you're a reflection of whatever they do right or wrong. It's not an argument of "the gaming/media industry isn't making it any easier on us" at all. Art imitiates life.
Just have a little common sense, really.
-FOXHOUND; Joystiq comment poster, NO MA'AM Member #13580
Splatoon @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:15PM
Pretty sad, but parents seem to be more than willing to let the gov't babysit their kids.
Mr.ESC @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:28PM
Well is Europe.
When I say weakass you say flamebait.
Weakass...
Poisoned Al @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:45PM
Well you've got to remember that we don't fall for the "terrorists will eat your babies if you don't vote for us" bullshit, so over here they make up new things to be scared of.
t_m @ Apr 23rd 2008 2:33AM
A video-game-playing terrorist ate MY baby... sob.
Zeus.:God @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:15PM
"Love and marriage; love and marriage; goes together like a horse and carriage- this, I tell you brother, you can't have one without the other; love and marriage; love and marriage; it's an institute you can't disparage; ask the local gentry, and they will say its elementary!"
Love Married With Children.
Mr.ESC @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:27PM
The children! Won't somebody THINK of the CHILDREN?!
Shmil @ Apr 23rd 2008 12:00AM
[+1] soley because there has seem to be a string of the Simpsons episodes with this quote being played in my hometown. Tonight's episode was the prohibition episode which truly made me appreciate how awesome the Simpsons was compared to the fast falling Family Guy.
AlphaOmegaSin @ Apr 22nd 2008 11:34PM
Im glad that Married with children was used for this, good refrence guys :D
DangerMouse @ Apr 23rd 2008 12:04AM
No Ma'am!!!!
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Apr 23rd 2008 12:20AM
This shit makes me fucking rage. NO IT IS NOT THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT OR THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRIES FAULT TO LOOK OVER CHILDREN, IT'S TEH FUCKING PARENTS. WHERE ARE THEY? WHY AREN'T THEY DOING THEIR JOBS? oh I work a 10 hr shift and i'm so tir-NO FUCK YOU. YOUR ROLE IS TO LOOK OVER YOUR CHILD AND MAKE SURE HE/SHE BECOMES A SANE, PRODUCTIVE ADULT IN TODAYS SOCIETY. THIS MEANS, AND INCLUDES, WATCHING WHAT YOUR CHILD WATCHES AND PLAYS. THE FACT THAT PARENTS ARE DOING LESS AND LESS OF THIS IS WHY KIDS GROW UP TO BECOME PIECES OF SHIT ASSHOLES.
It's the parents responsibility to read the ratings and figure out the right game for their children. sorry for the rant, stupidity like this pisses me off.