Bioware devs debate whether Wii is part of gaming
by Ross Miller 
{ Apr 23rd 2008 at 5:30PM }
Providing a counterpoint, Muzyaka noted that the Wii experience is "more toy-like" but also said, "there's also a narrative between the players outside the game and kind of fulfills the same things games do. Games are 'toys' in the sense that they're fun." Warren Spector had made a similar designation in an Escapist piece last year, categorizing games like Tetris and Madden akin as "retold" narratives. The above is a rather bare-bones highlight of their discussion, so check out the full interview for more.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:32PM
Ooooh shit! Here we go!
Go White Sox and Go other Team @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:46PM
Seems like more and more developers are expressing their disinterest in the Wii.
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:47PM
And you felt it necessary to respond to me specifically becaaauuuuuuse..?
finnith @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:51PM
He's the latest in the line of Joystiq Brand PS3 Fanboys™.
He's been a'trollin' the boards all day.
Jon @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:52PM
If only Joystiq commentors can debate as civilised as these two men...
ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:56PM
@samfish
He's replying to you not because he's interested in you nor your avatar: he only did it because you were first.
It's called leeching, where you guarantee yourself the "second" post of the article.
Benny @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:16PM
It's true. I've been the victim of a leech attack too, and decided it was time to start a support group.
http://x.cursedsanctuary.com/
Join me in this leech-free sanctuary.
Shmil @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:29PM
benny, if i hadn't already known of that website i may have clicked. But because i know of it I say bravo and keep up the good work.
Benny @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:37PM
I think it's important to share the love.
bigsofty @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:53PM
As Ive always said, its a mediocre console with an excellent, if rather inaccurate controller.
Levi @ Apr 23rd 2008 9:02PM
Oh boy, I'm gonna stay out of this one. It's gonna get ugly.
Rocketboy @ Apr 24th 2008 9:24AM
Leeches are really destroying Joystiq's comments. That and the "I see what you did there" posts. First of, you NOT BEING FUNNY OR INTERESTING by saying that you thought someone else was funny. Second, it's usually the lame, easy joke that's NOT funny that someone has to post "I see what you did there" to.
Waiting for the "I see what you did there" comments.
RobLink (MKWii code : 0989 1866 6646) @ Apr 24th 2008 3:42PM
..... I don't get it. Am I supposed to see what you did there?
deaftly @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:35PM
*rolls out the red carpet for the NDF.*
Raikage (LDF CRAB BATTLE!!!) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:19PM
It's green, like Captain Planet's glorious mullet...
EARTH!
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:21PM
*Builds MG emplacements.
Shmil @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:32PM
FIRE!
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:34PM
Gimmnicks!
rv @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:07PM
WIND!
deaftly @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:07PM
Water!
Velops @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:36PM
HEART... of the cards!
GumbyX84 @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:54PM
Heart!!! : pulls out still beating heart: HEART!!!!
If you don't get it, you need to read VG Cats more.
rv @ Apr 23rd 2008 9:13PM
GOOOO PLANET!!!
BPM [SSBB: 5026 4120 1186] @ Apr 23rd 2008 11:01PM
By your powers combined, I am going to kick all your asses!
SKI @ Apr 24th 2008 8:09AM
CAPTAIN PLANET!! Protect the environment, or I'll fucking kill you! CAPTAIN PLANET!!
SoulBlade @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:35PM
Nothing good can come of this...
Lonecow @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:36PM
Such a stupid argument. So Pac-Man is no longer a game because Mass Effect is what a game is now?
No More Heroes has a story. But it is on the Wii so it is a toy?
Curtis the Claw:XBL - supapaypamawio @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:11PM
I agree, this is stupid. A game doesn't need to have a Mass Effect story, let alone any story to be a game.
Co @ Apr 23rd 2008 7:06PM
Mass Effect is a Massively Lame game. These developers such as Bioware and Epic are just threatened and confused by Wii's amazing success. If it wasn't in first place by leaps and bounds you would not be hearing these comments from them.
Conversely, companies like High Voltage and Factor 5 deserve a high five and a pound.
Kujel @ Apr 23rd 2008 7:43PM
I agree the Wii is a game machine but not all the software for it is. Now Mass Effect was a great game and don't be say'n shit about it, as for Epic's comments they really do like a lot higher polygon counts then the Wii can puch.
Ethan @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:45PM
You're right. Game connotes toy. If they want to make a separation they should make their own fucking word rather than deciding that the one we use is suddenly exclusive.
Which I do hope happens, though any such phrase always comes off as ever more cumbersome than "graphic novel," which I suppose is the equivalent semantic thing in 'comics.'
Questworld @ Apr 24th 2008 2:51AM
Boy these guys (among others, ex. Epic) are really making it a campaign to knock Wii's popularity on its ass. Not only do they not support it (no HD, poo poo), not only do they deem it a fad (repeatedly), now it's a question of whether if it's part of gaming. Wow, they've really gone well beyond what they did (or rather "didn't")when it was the N64 and Cube. The hate for Nintendo must be huge in their hearts considering how much they've thrown at it (i.e. third-party sales vs. first-party sales, attach rates, million unit sellers, game types, demographic types, and all sorts of data to twist or boast facts that ultimately makes a non-factor, be it for game makers or gamers). It's like they want to warp perception so that the Wii doesn't "win" the "console war" depending on the bullet points they've deemed necessary for a console maker to win.
Guess what, these so-called non-gamers or casual gamers (why such gamers are now some disease when just the other generation serving such gamers was a big deal and instrumental to why the PS2 sold so well) are important to balance many books. Otherwise you'd be risking big and falling hard when the "hardcore" doesn't receive your game well enough. Frankly for Wii owners that's kinda annoying, they get no respect but companies like Majesco use them as their health care cash cow for those times when they're in the red and hemorrhaging money.
Sami @ Apr 24th 2008 9:03AM
Even Bioware's RPGs could benefit from the Wii. Games are about gameplay! Zeschuk seems to imply that games with narrative need to have antiquated gameplay, and that is just not true. Bioware could just as well make a game with good narrative and good gameplay and not just the other.
Erik Novak @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:37PM
(waits for "games ARE toys!" Nintendite argument)
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:40PM
I play with my penis (a LOT!), but I don't consider it a toy.
However, I COULD buy a toy shaped like a penis. It may or may not vibrate.
Are videogames like my penis? They DO both involve playing with a joystick.
BigD145 @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:45PM
It's not an argument, it's the truth. Just look up the various definitions of "toy".
# plaything: an artifact designed to be played with
# a nonfunctional replica of something else (frequently used as a modifier); "a toy stove"
# miniature: copy that reproduces something in greatly reduced size
# A Toy is an object used in play
As an example, I'll hit up FPS's. You're are not actually killing a living being in a FPS. It's a 'nonfunctional replica' of actual gun usage.
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:31PM
That depends.If your penis has a story, then it exists.If you're a virgin, chances are that your dick is non-existent.
Or you could try Schrödinger's Penis.As long as you don't look down your pants, you can assume that you both have and lack a penis.
Tim The Enchanter @ Apr 23rd 2008 8:42PM
*waggle waggle
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:37PM
Someday I hope to see one of these flame baity comment sections be nothing but people saying 'this is gonna get ugly' and reach over 100 comments.
C'mon guys – make ol' samfish proud and just tell us how nasty this thread is going to be!
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:38PM
Oop. Damnit. too late. Nevermind.
Maybe next time.
RobLink (MKWii code : 0989 1866 6646) @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:43PM
This is gonna get ugly.
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:44PM
This is gonna get ugly?
Shmil @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:45PM
This is gonna get ugly
RobLink (MKWii code : 0989 1866 6646) @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:47PM
How ugly?
samfish @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:48PM
So ugly that when this thread was born it's mother said "What a treasure!" and her father said "Yes, let's go bury it."
Shmil @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:52PM
that's pretty damn ugly
RobLink (MKWii code : 0989 1866 6646) @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:54PM
Almost as ugly as the thought of naked Peach playing with her penis.....
ApolloIV @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:58PM
Roblink, That's hot
RobLink (MKWii code : 0989 1866 6646) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:08PM
Yeah, I know. ;)
Speaking of ugly, go see the latest Zero Punctuation. Can't wait to see the comments after Joystiq put that up.
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ Apr 23rd 2008 6:28PM
It'd be a lot more interesting if everybody just said "I'm staying out of this one" and refuse to write anything.
[Assuming that Fernando has enough common sense to back off...which I believe he does] It'd end up with Killjebus and Tranando gloating over how superior their PS3's are.
PS:This has gotten ugly.