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Reader Comments (116)

Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:28PM (Unverified) said

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In before shitstorm.

Seriously JoyStiq, do you need hits that badly as to do nothing but post flamebait after flamebait today?
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:44PM (Unverified) said

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This is a well presented and well researched arguement.

Why is it that so many people on here see itmes like this as flamebait? Because it critiques one of the big three? It also praises them, have another read, go on, I'll wait......

The fact is Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo need to make a lot of improvements to their strategies and products, none of them are perfect. Just be thankful they have each other so that they keep on pushing and things keep getting better for us gamers.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:55PM (Unverified) said

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"This is a well presented and well researched arguement."

Actually, it is not.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:01PM (Unverified) said

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It's a troubling truth, and something i'd hoped nintendo might be able to get over with their new casual base. If they can just get some of the so-called "hardcore" with a nice exclusive shooter that makes good use of the wii remote and a good online service, they might be able to turn things around. A decent RTS wouldn't hurt, either.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:04PM (Unverified) said

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Since I know voodoo_craig will respond:http://vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1075
"In a recent article by the New York Times, VGChartz was used as a source in the article. We at VGChartz would like to first thank the New York Times for the citation but sadly we feel that the information was misinterpreted and ended up presenting sales numbers incorrectly.

According to the article, game sales for the Nintendo Wii are apparently quite poor. Super Smash Bros. Brawl dropped 90% in America, citing our numbers as evidence, while ignoring overall sales for America and all sales in Japan. At the current moment Super Smash Bros. Brawl has sold—between both America and Japan—a total of 4.9 million units. Another thing that disproves that Nintendo Wii software sales are poor is that in our latest data release the Nintendo Wii sold 2,664,929 pieces of software worldwide and 1,205,770 pieces of software just in America.

The article also states that because retail chains like Wal-Mart and Toys-R-Us have started to bundle Super Smash Bros. Brawl indicates poor sales. This is generally not true. When retail chains bundle games it is not always due to poor sales but rather high sales and wanting to make customers think they are getting a better deal while making more money than they typically would if they sold the console and game(s) separately.

Again thanks to the New York Times for the citation but hopefully this article will give a better understanding on how the market is truly performing for the Nintendo Wii."


so much for "well researched and "well presented"
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:28PM R V said

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4my friends, the main point of the article is about how wii is nintendo software only, not so much about brawl not being sold, so while you make a valid point, it does not conflict with the main point of the article.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:33PM SheppyReturns said

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well researched means it has a source for the information. Read the article again, oh look. There is the source and the information. Amazing how that works. Research was done to two seperate locals, most of your fanboys only reference their diaries. Also, aside from the SSBB attack, where exactly did the NYT article go wrong? And incidently, VGchartz is not the most accurate information. Like NPD and most other tracking services, it lacks several chains and even digital distribution.

If one was to go tracking down the sources of the sources of the sources, you'd be suprised how easily you could drive yourself mad.

Also, this list, do you deny them? Are you really going to say "nope, those lists are wrong because I remember RE4 being the top seller on the console and I'm right."

Now, as for well presented, he didn't directly attack the markets. In fact, this is largely a positive article talking about how Nintendo has been able to maximize on trends of their past as well as expanding beyond. The author is slapping them on the back while making mention that attempts to merge the two unique factions has, thus far, failed. Or will you really say that somehow the reviews coming in on Mario Kart Wii are not lower than previous versions and majority of the hits coming from reviewers saying the obvious dumbing down of the franchise to let new players in is not of that result?

Let's sum everything I typed up in a simple summation, you can quote me from here to eternity.

"These company are not your friends. These companies seek only to make money off of you. It doesn't matter what you think, they are companies and their love for you only goes as deep as your pocketbook. If you were being called stupid or being flamed, will Reggie post in your defense? If a bully a school took your chocolate milk, will Itawa buy you a new one? No?!? Then who cares what someone thinks about them? If you are having fun with your console, that's great that you are seeing enjoyment from it. If people do not agree with your console choice, this does not mean they hate you. They hate the console. Throw down your arms, console warrior. No blood you lose nor shed in their name will matter to them and your wars will continue to destroy the community."
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 10:39AM (Unverified) said

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4MyFriends is a fanboy. There's no rational arguement that will change his mind. Any constructive criticism will be considered a blow to his ego, and he'll defend his love for the soulless corporation with fire and brimstone. Kind of like a fundamentalist, religious nut.

I'll buy the Wii when they finally have some great non-Nintendo developed titles to play. I'm sorry, but I've played Twilight Princess, and while it was great; was it any different from Ocarina of Time? No. Will the next Zelda be any different? Probably not. Same goes with Halo and GTA. Any difference between the sequels? Not really. Which is why games like Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Okami and others are higher in play time for me.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 1:03PM Rocketboy said

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"This is a well presented and well researched arguement." No. A well presented and researched article was posted on Wiifanboy regarding the shady numbers that the NYT used.
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Posted: May 7th 2008 10:45PM (Unverified) said

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I agree with voodoo_craig, but I also think the article is missing something big, possibly the fact that the only 3rd party games that are released on Wii are crap. Soul Calibur Legends vs Soul Calibur IV and so on. Besides the two noted, GH3 seems to be selling quite well. If you look down the list, you notice a trend. Put it like this, well-known licenses sell. DUH! Lol. I think there was one point missing from this article. If Nintendo made games for the X360, then what would be the big sellers on that system? Think about it.

And one more point. Besides the fact that the economy sucks atm, most people that would buy these games don't own a Wii. Either they want a price drop (really doesn't need to happen), or they are waiting for a non-existent Halo 3 port.

Is that too forward or did I catch the faults in the article the same way the article did a fantastic job of noting Nintendo's current strategy in full?
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:38PM Roto13 said

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"At that point, the sales of the game were apparently bad enough that retailers began to bundle the game with the Wii system in order to sell through their inventory."

*facepalm*
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:49PM (Unverified) said

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That was a shocker to me also.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 10:13PM (Unverified) said

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After reading this article I come away with one word repeated: HATE HATE HATE HATE!!!

"But, like the Gamecube, there are some troubling aspects of the strategy. Namely, it seems to alienate 3rd-party developers, and it makes the company dependent almost entirely on self-developed "hits" a few times a year."

Here's my question: What is any more troubling with this strategy than Sony and Microsoft's approach which is leaving them in the dust month after month?

Sure Sony and Microsoft have the "hard core" crowd, if you will, by the nuts. But that same "hard core" crowd grows smaller and smaller not only with every generation, but with every successful month of Nintendo's uberly profitable approach.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 12:06AM (Unverified) said

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@Co

He actually complemented Nintendo for being able to capitalize on its userbase ... You seem to have selective remembering ... There is no hate in that article ... This part says it all to me ...


This isn't necessarily such a bad thing for Nintendo. After all, even through all the doom and gloom of the Gamecube, the company was still profitable. Like the Wii, the Gamecube always sold at a profit (or very close to it). With arguably the best development teams in the industry, Nintendo has cultivated an extremely loyal fanbase who anxiously await every one of their new releases. Since these games are Nintendo published as well, they reap the full reward of their sales as well. And, of course, the Wii hardware is selling at a much better overall rate than the Gamecube, meaning that Nintendo's installed base is bigger and allows for higher software sales. But, like the Gamecube, there are some troubling aspects of the strategy. Namely, it seems to alienate 3rd-party developers, and it makes the company dependent almost entirely on self-developed "hits" a few times a year.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 12:10AM SheppyReturns said

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You know, Co... you MAY have a point.

I mean, here this is a website that's essentially built FROM the ground up for hardcore gamers and here it is, an article discussing the issues on hardcore gamer minds. Clearly the author had no clue what audience visits this site.

Ok, let's put it this way. I'm trying not to sound condescending but it's soooo gosh darned cute when you console warriors get all riled up over nothing.

Take a look at the best foot put forward by third parties on the Nintendo Wii. As the top seller in "best foot forward," we have RE4: Wii Edition. What?!? You mean I skipped Sonic and Mario at the Olympics (minigame collection capitalizing on Mario. What proof? Sega Superstars Tennis is at 26,000... ouch). And yes, I skipped GHIII as well. I'd hardly call a PS2 port where they couldn't even be bothered to check if the game was outputting sound in more than one channel before placing Dolby on the box. RE4 was mainly such a good hook because it not only came at a slow time, but at a budget price as well.

From there, we get a couple other reputable games getting decent sales but then something strange happens. The two best third party Wii games (Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes), despite the HUGE amount of buzz about their quality and uniqueness and how they are an asset to the industry, are outsold by Carnival Games 4:1. Fucks sake, a game called Game Party nearly doubled No More Heroes sales.

If you have evidence of developers being rewarded for the risk, by all means, show it. Because right now, this shovelware everyone hates and it's hitting the bins with such force as to fuel many a curmeo or krazy ken rant, it's selling. And it's selling more than the GOOD games by alarming amounts.

Soon, like on the Gamecube and unless things do make a turnaround (which there is ALWAYS a chance for and I truly hope it occurs because I like an occassional Nintendo game but they are NOT my favored developer and I want to see someone truly batshit insane release a Wii game), patterns may repeat. Maybe you're not old enough to remember but N64 started with all these promises and developers were quick to run away. Gamecube, likewise, had similar hopes and dreams and a chant, this time, things will be different. Shortly after all the prelims of the Capcom 5 failed and the only third party release ever to sell more on Cube than anywhere else needed Link to do it, companies started backing out.

Now, as a hardcore gamer who wants more variety to any console I own, and yes, I own I Wii and fellow stiqers kick my ass at SSBB regularly, I don't want the past mistakes of the Cube to repeat. Wii owners NEED to start looking at this seriously and start asking some of those important questions. And remember, raising these questions doesn't mean you're against the system.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 12:16AM (Unverified) said

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@Co

Nintendo is all about the money like all business ... Thats why they made a smart move and went with technology that wasn't expensive to produce ... Sony took a gamble and is paying for it ... In the end These casual Wii players will eventually graduate to an X-Box or a Playstation ... You are the minority ... Most people prefer cutting edge in terms of technology ... The Wii has cutting edge controls but not cutting edge graphics or physics ... You see motion controls are only one pice of the pie ... As I said you are the minority in terms of Wii faithful ... You are a hardcore gamer in the sea of a casual user base ... Look at the titles in the Wii section and compare them to titles in the 360 & PS3 section ... Maybe you prefer to play Mario & Pals but the rest of the grownups like games like Halo, Metal gear & GTA ... I love my Wii but it's because I can play it with my kids and fiance ... Not because it's revolutionary ... Because it's something I know my kids can play due to the simplicity of even the great games like Galaxy ... Thats the great thing about the Wii and most of its best games ... They are easy to learn and hard to master ... Thats also the thing Nintendo has to walk the line with and one of the big complaints against Mario kart ... However, I am sure you will like whatever Nintendo puts out because you are Nintendo through and through
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:52AM samfish said

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"From there, we get a couple other reputable games getting decent sales but then something strange happens. The two best third party Wii games (Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes), despite the HUGE amount of buzz about their quality and uniqueness and how they are an asset to the industry, are outsold by Carnival Games 4:1. Fucks sake, a game called Game Party nearly doubled No More Heroes sales."

Here's why you have that, though –

1) Carnival Games, contrary to popular belief, apparently DOES have a stealth advertising campaign going on. Try turning on ABC Family or the Disney Channel on a Saturday morning sometime.

2) Game Party is $20 friggin' bucks vs $50 for No More Heroes and it's readily available in nearly all retail channels (as opposed to another shitty $20 game like, say, Ninjabread Man which you pretty much can't find anywhere, should for some reason you feel the need to own it). It is, in other words, the definition of an impulse buy.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:39PM (Unverified) said

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I own more third party than first party wii games
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 11:10PM Bearxor said

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You must have a really shit Wii game collection.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:41PM (Unverified) said

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Let's see, the Wii is only one and half years old and even its lowest selling games have already outsold the two lowest selling games on the Gamecube by a million. The list includes a third party game - not evident in the entire run of the Gamecube - and three of the games are new intellectual properties. Yeah, it looks like the Gamecube all over again.

In all seriousness, isn't it perhaps a little premature to be making grandiose, over-the-top assessments such as these?
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:38PM SheppyReturns said

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My god, you're absolutely right. We should be judging current gen consoles and analyzing the business aspects of these games and the impact made therein no sooner than 12 years from now.

We'll be sure to place this arguement in a time capsule for your convenience so that any parties who could research this and react will have no ability to try and change the way things are going. Good idea.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:48PM (Unverified) said

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Dear Sir Fidlious Wong, you've missed my point. This article is comparing the 5 or 6 years of lifetime sales of one system to the very early stages of sales numbers from another. I think his argument is misleading and unnecessarily condemning.

But, to each their own! But, please - if it makes you happier - continue the predictable exaggeration and twisting of my words. : )
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 11:32PM SheppyReturns said

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MY point is fairly simpler. If we can call DS a failure within it's first month, PSP the winner of the handheld war within it's first 3 months, PS3 a failure or sure thing pre and post launch, how the PS2's launch compares to the PS3's, the long term decline of the turn based RPGs in popularity, and even xbox 360 live service peek numbers to determine television programming during what hours, we sure as hell can take a look at a predecessor console and the patterns being repeated by the lineage console in the current generation.

This article, in case you missed it (apparently you had), was NOT damning of Nintendo in any way, shape, or form. As said before, console warrior, lay down your arms.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:42PM xgenius said

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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:57PM (Unverified) said

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I would think if Joystiq really wanted a fanboy War, they would post this article that you linked. A short but accurate and interesting article indeed.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 10:17PM (Unverified) said

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lmao what a shame of an article. This guy actually says the MEDIA is telling us the Wii is cool. Are you kidding me?? Yea, it can't be that everytime I pick up a remote I genuinely have a blast with it. That is not a contributing factor at all.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 12:32AM (Unverified) said

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good read ... he is off base calling it a failure ... Its highly successful even if it does pretty much suck ...

@Co

You need to learn how to read ... He never implied the media makes us think the Wii is cool ... He gave reasons as to why the Wii sucks for people that were actually looking for a cutting edge video game platform ... You Wii Warriors get so bent out of shape dont you ... Jeez ... He made on comment in passing about the media and you take it out of context ... Way to go Sean Hannity
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:47PM Catprog said

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In the comments section of http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1075

Halo 3 dropped by 97% in the same time frame

In its sixth week of release in North America (ending April 19, 2008), Super Smash Bros. Brawl was the second-best selling game on any platform. Its sales of approximately 189,000 units trailed only Wii Sports


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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 10:18PM (Unverified) said

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Get out of here with that overly logical counterpoint! This is unnecessary unbiasedness!!!
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:52PM meegoo said

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What's interesting about it is that vgchartz themselves made a release saying that the Times had misinterpreted and misrepresented the data.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:54PM (Unverified) said

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"At the same time, well-reviewed 3rd-party games, like Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes, typically perform poorly on the system."

Zack & Wiki is a poor example, because it was never going to sell well. It was a niche game from the start, no matter where it launched. No More Heroes is a little more mainstream, but Suda's style of games is still only of interest to a fairly small audience. Killer 7 didn't sell on PS2 either, remember.

But it's more than just those two games. The fact is that there *aren't* any good examples on Wii of what you're talking about: high-quality, mainstream/hardcore games from outside of major franchises. And so there's no way to formulate an argument about how well/poorly these games sell.

The reasons for this lack of "real games" are complicated, and probably involve some combination of Nintendo's kiddy image (which it deserves, in my opinion); publishers' expectations of what games belong (and sell) on Wii; and the demographics of Wii owners, or at least corporations' perceptions of those demographics.

Of course, if no one bothers making these kinds of games for the system, the end result is the same: only Nintendo franchises and casual games sell. But I don't think anyone should write the system off until they actually *try* to put some grade-A titles on it.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:54PM (Unverified) said

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I am wondering as is this article how long the Wii can maintain itself as a viable 3rd party platform. What I am seeing for the most part is the vast majority of 3rd party developers that are known for quality are developing primarily for the 360 and PS3. By this time next year the answer should present itself quite clearly.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:58PM (Unverified) said

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Once 3rd party developers start actually developing games with budgets higher than DS titles you will not see huge sales of 3rd party titles. Us Wii owners aren't at fault for shitty flash quality shovelware not being bought, I wish these gloom and doom articles would realize this.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:08PM (Unverified) said

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I agree that Wii console owners are not at fault for the lack of quality 3rd party software. I do not think the article implied that either. But for 3rd party software companies, what is the incentive to spend millions on a Wii game when no matter what they do, they cannot come even close to the level of immersion in games like COD4, or Warhawk, or GoW2, or GTA4, or MGS4, or GT5, or KZ2, or R2, you get the point.

There games if they went for a realistic look, would look ugly, old, and dated next to any of those games I just mentioned. So what is a 3rd party to do? They have in my opinion 2 choices, either do not develop for the Wii, or make a quick kiddie cashin mini-game collection that costs very little and has the potential to sell millions to the casual crowd that is the vast majority of Wii owners.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:54PM amart89 said

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why is wiisports considered in software sales?
It comes with the freaking system, so anyone with a wii has it.
It's like saying FreeCell or Majohng games that come with every PC are "best sellers"
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:56PM (Unverified) said

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It's not included in Asia.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:00PM (Unverified) said

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Nor Japan(I dunno about Europe). Even if it wasn't, Wii Sports has an insanely high attach rate due to it being the definitive casual title for the system, so it isn't like sales in America would be significantly lower.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:03PM (Unverified) said

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It is a bit of a quandry. Why is WiiSports counted as software? I could understand if there were a Wii console sold by itself along with another Wii console bundled with WiiSports.

I don't have much experience with the Wii, but for what I played, it did not really do much for me. I can see the appeal at parties with the alcohol flowing like the Nile, but other than that, I just do not see the appeal especially with GTA4 coming out so soon. Now that is a game that I know I will spend many hours on getting more than my $60 worth.

Please, if there are any omnipotent beings out there reading this, snap your fingers, wiggle your nose, tap your shoes or whatever and make it TUESDAY THE 29th.

Please?

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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 1:03AM hvnlysoldr said

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Wii Sports doesn't come packaged in Japan and soon South Korea
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:01AM amart89 said

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lol sorry but despite the fact that its not packaged with the system in "certain areas" its hard to ignore 17 000 000 copies being bought
It is impossible to deny the correlation between the sales and the fact that the system comes with it, COME ON GUYS!! really?? it doesn't count in asia?? that's all you got ?
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:09AM amart89 said

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4myfriends: you are kidding yourself if you don't think sales would be SIGNIFICANTLY lower in america. Why?
hmm lets see nintendo's mascot mario in one of his most exceptional(and enjoyable) adventures yet was only able to sell 5.2 mil? and smashbros. even less than last generation ( despite the gaming industries growth)
your assuming people with no background knowledge of wiisports would pick it up over mario? doubtful
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:10AM amart89 said

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4myfriends: you are kidding yourself if you don't think sales would be SIGNIFICANTLY lower in america. Why?
hmm lets see nintendo's mascot mario in one of his most exceptional(and enjoyable) adventures yet was only able to sell 5.2 mil? and smashbros. even less than last generation ( despite the gaming industries growth)
your implying people with no background knowledge of wiisports would pick it up over mario? doubtful
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:16AM hvnlysoldr said

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Wii Sports is still a million seller in Japan so it can use Japan's number and that can be counted.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:20AM hvnlysoldr said

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You act like Brawl surpassing life time sales of the its first game Smash and two thirds life of Melee and 5/8 of Halo 3 biggest launch ever, is a failure.

And yes I'm spamming your email in an immature fashion you your immature responses.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:22AM hvnlysoldr said

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I gotta say Joystiq's commenting system is better. No MissingNo. glitch this time.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2008 2:22AM hvnlysoldr said

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I gotta say Joystiq's commenting system is better. No MissingNo. glitch this time.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 8:59PM (Unverified) said

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So casuals don't buy hardcore games pretty much, like we didn't already know that. As I've said before this expanding the market talk from nintendo fanboys is BS because all of these causals buying shovelware are not moving onto other systems and more hardcore games.

The only way they're really expanding the industry is encouraging more shovelware.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:02PM (Unverified) said

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No one is buying 3rd party "hardcore"(can we please stop using this word until we get one meaning for it?) titles on the system because THERE ARE HARDLY ANY OF THEM. Tell developers to stop with the PS2 ports(which looks worst than late Gen PS2) with waggle, and maybe people will start buying them.

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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 9:06PM (Unverified) said

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The argument from the nintendo faithful has been that these casuals are getting introduced into gaming with the shitty shovelware they seem to eat up and then moving onto the real nintendo games and possibly other systems.

This article is pretty much solid evidence of that statement being entirely wrong. It isn't really about 1st party or 3rd party, they're not moving onto real games for any system at all.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2008 11:16PM samfish said

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"As I've said before this expanding the market talk from nintendo fanboys is BS because all of these causals buying shovelware are not moving onto other systems and more hardcore games."

It's been about a year and a half, the Wii has been on the market. You expect people to play the Wii and then a month later say, "Man! I need a 360 now! HALOOOOOOZ!"

It doesn't work that way. A lot of these people are still freaked out at the concept of using the nunchuck.
The Wii IS expanding the market, but it's going to be a while, if ever, before these new comers play "H4RDC0R3!" games.
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