Rockstar's Dan Houser disses casual gaming, explains process of rebuilding NYC
by Griffin McElroy 
{ May 3rd 2008 at 8:30PM }
Dan Houser, Vice President of creativity for Rockstar Games, has apparently never enjoyed the visceral thrill of creating a Mii in his own likeness and entering the boxing ring with a similarly Mii-ified version of Adolf Hitler -- or else we assume he wouldn't have dropped the following foul-mouthed quote in an interview with New York Magazine: "Yeah, fuck all this stuff about casual gaming." Poignant, no?He goes on to explain that while the warm reception of Nintendo's latest console is "fantastic", gamers still want games with production values and narratives that rival those of big-budget movies, much like the titles produced by Rockstar. The rest of the interview is actually a very intriguing look at how the Grand Theft Auto IV team meticulously built a city using the Big Apple as their inspiration, but something tells us that the rest of the story might get overshadowed by that one particular sound bite.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Noshino @ May 3rd 2008 8:35PM
*jaws theme songplying on the background*
Co @ May 4th 2008 2:29AM
lmao i love kids like this. Whine cuz Nintendo is running away with this generation. Need some tissues? This dude is just trying to make noise.
el serpiente @ May 4th 2008 11:21AM
The only crying this guy is doing is tears of joy when he sees his next bank statement.
Go White Sox and Go other Team @ May 4th 2008 1:22PM
Nintendo is not IN this generation. The 360 and PS3 are the only systems of THIS generation.
Do not tell me that a GameCube with a motion controller (that has been poorly implemented except for WiiSports) is part of THIS generation.
Nintendo themselves said they were NOT competing with Microsoft of Sony.
Schmobu @ May 4th 2008 5:49PM
Shut the fuck up if you knew anything, anything about computers you would not be able to make that statement, the Wii is not a gamecube with a Wiimote, it is far more powerful, it's better than two Xboxs taped together, and that's because the Gamecube was comparible to the Xbox in what it was capable of, I don't talk about stuff I don't know about, and niether should you.
MariosInferno @ May 5th 2008 9:32AM
"Nintendo is not IN this generation. The 360 and PS3 are the only systems of THIS generation."
"Nintendo themselves said they were NOT competing with Microsoft of Sony."
An interesting load of bull-sh*t. I've now heard Reggie on several occasions speak to the Wii outselling everyone. Probably a little double speak on Nintendo's leading up to the release of the Wii...uneasy about the reception of the console. However, I would have to believe that has certainly changed.
Further, please don't act like if either MS and Sony were winning this console race that they would NOT be up there pounding their chest talking about how they're crushing the Wii and PS3/X360. You, just like every other fanboy, either includes or excludes the Wii from this "generation" of consoles when it serves your point. In terms of games, this "generation" was nothing more than the next wave of graphically improved consoles.
Go White Sox and Go other Team @ May 5th 2008 10:07AM
Go ahead and call me a fanboy if it makes you feel better. I will say the Wii is part of this generation when the PS2 is.
MariosInferno @ May 5th 2008 11:12AM
"I will say the Wii is part of this generation when the PS2 is."
That's fine. You'd also continue to be a complete moron.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 8:36PM
Hahaha he's my new favorite person in the industry. Tells it like it is.
Oh and in before the shit storm
Matt B @ May 3rd 2008 9:26PM
But you probably hate Jaffe.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 9:29PM
Nope I've always liked Jaffe. I really appreciate people who aren't afraid of fanboys and just lets loose with their opinions.
4MyFriends @ May 3rd 2008 10:54PM
You're like the Fornando of Nintendo bashing, aren't you tmacairjordan87?
Go White Sox and Go other Team @ May 4th 2008 1:29PM
@4myfriends
"You're like the Fornando of Nintendo bashing, aren't you tmacairjordan87?"
Sure he is, the only difference is that his posts are not a broken record and they usually contain some coherent thought and cohesiveness with some rational factoids thrown in.
Anni @ May 3rd 2008 8:40PM
Man, when that guy realizes how many non-hardcore gamers play GTA, he's going to be piiiiiiiissed!
Noshino @ May 3rd 2008 8:46PM
He isn't talking about casual gamers...he is talking about casual GAMES...he is poking fun at Wii Sports, Carnival Games, and such...
Anni @ May 3rd 2008 9:00PM
Obviously. I just want to point out that it isn't as much of a dichotomy as people act like it is.
Jeff @ May 3rd 2008 11:58PM
I think, while the type of people who play GTA, Madden, Halo and not much else used to be what we could call "casual gamers"... the bar has fallen much lower thanks to Nintendo.
Casual gamers are now those who play Brain Age, Wii Sports, and possibly, if they're feeling a bit risque, Mario Kart (with wheel, of course!).
JakubK666 (Ninja Defence Force) @ May 4th 2008 6:30AM
No. Halo,Madden,GTA are games for Casual Gamers. Wii Games are for your Mum.
Ted @ May 4th 2008 6:40AM
Yeah, but I think the seriously 'non-hardcore' gamers (eg my dad) have trouble with games like GTA, whereas they see games like
Case in point... last night I was playing GTA IV on my computer monitor. I say to him "this is GTA, the game that gets all that press attention". He comes over, and I demonstrate the living and breathing world stuff, running around, cars driving, pedestrians.
Then, I want to show him why it's controversial, and I say your character has a lot of freedom, including the option to do some pretty bad things... To highlight this point, I step in front of a car and aim my shotgun at the driver's seat. The person is cowering behind the steering wheel. I fire off a loud shot, and the windshield is cracked with an instant splatter of blood on the glass obscuring the view of the body. My father is shocked, says 'oh my god' and walks out saying he 'doesn't like this violence'.
You see, the casual way in which it's possible to do that surprises non-gamers. My dad doesn't object to anyone playing these games, and understands it's not corrupting minds the way some people do. My dad came back into the room after walking out and I had a chance to show him the funny radio stations, the driving and the well-done cut scenes, so that incident wasn't his entire experience of what GTA is. But nevertheless, there is a clear distinction between GTA and the 'casual game'.
Ted @ May 4th 2008 6:47AM
Oops, didn't finish my sentence in the first paragraph.
I was going to say that my dad is of the school of assuming that games are innocent distractions like cartoons. So Wii sports etc he doesn't have trouble with. That's what 'casual games' are.
In fact, he was surprised to see the '18' rating on the cover of the box. I don't think he realised games could be rated that high!
My disclaimer though is that my dad is abnormally clueless about modern culture and technology. My grandparents are more tuned into that stuff than my dad is. I have friends at uni who say their parents play games, so maybe I'm some kind of rare exception.
thesimplicity @ May 5th 2008 12:30PM
If he hates casual games so much, why shoehorn them into his title?
This is just feeling threatened by the fact that the bowling minigame in Carnival Games blows the one in GTA IV out of the water.
ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ May 3rd 2008 8:46PM
When will developers quit complaining about the lack of big deep titles on the Wii and actually start creating franchises for it?
Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 3rd 2008 9:12PM
You speak the truth, my man. To developers: quit bitching and start developing.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 9:14PM
They're waiting on nintendo first, which means they'll be waiting a long time
Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 3rd 2008 9:27PM
You never turn down a chance to trash Nintendo, do you? Let's take a look at Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, or Z:TP.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 9:37PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last comment, it just seems to prove my point for me. The guy said start "creating" (keyword) franchises. I can't remember the last time they created a non casual franchise, unless no more heroes was made by them which I'm pretty sure wasn't (I could be wrong though)
Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 3rd 2008 9:40PM
You said that they're waiting for Nintendo to develop deep games. I consider all three of those to have lengthy and deep gameplay. And no, No More Heroes was not developed by Nintendo.
Schmobu @ May 3rd 2008 10:55PM
Indeed, why doesn't rockstar make a game for Wii that isn't a port of a PS2 game, don't dis shit because your too lazy to give it a chance, if you want to see a non casual game on Wii, then make a Grand theft tendo.
Kujel @ May 4th 2008 1:46AM
It would be nice to see a GTA game on Wii but Nintendo would be douche bags about it and say no way.
ThornedVenom (Harley Quinn Defense Force) @ May 4th 2008 1:50AM
Dude, Kujel,
If they could make Manhunt 2 on the Wii (blahblah AO vs. M, the M version was still pretty gruesome as HELL), then I don't see why GTA wouldn't be possible on the Wii.
It's not as if they hadn't tried motion controls in a GTA-type gameplay before (see Godfather).
mr mobius @ May 4th 2008 12:43PM
There has been games like GTA on Nintendo consoles before. Forgetting the Manhunt and Bully games, there has been True Crime: Streets of LA (I think - not sure of the name of the game, but it's very like GTA) and there has been other games like Scarface.
freelance @ May 3rd 2008 8:54PM
Look at his head! That dude must be the smartest guy in gaming. *awe c'mon, you all were thinking it, I just said it*
farfisa @ May 3rd 2008 10:06PM
Seriously, looks like the kid from the Sopranos with a bald head: a true tough guy.
"What do you think for this shot, guys? Star Trek T, or something not so edgy?"
EihBeir @ May 3rd 2008 9:03PM
I need to get me a, "Fuck all this stuff about casual gaming." t-shirt.
I hope thinkgeek.com gets on that soon.
John McPoop @ May 4th 2008 10:54PM
Just buy the special paper, create the graphic, print it out, cut & iron on ... PRESTO
chefi @ May 3rd 2008 9:16PM
yeah fuck Rockstar's Table Tennis...
Anni @ May 3rd 2008 9:56PM
Best comment alert!
Mr Khan @ May 3rd 2008 9:16PM
Despite the fact that casual gaming pays his bread and butter? GTA is one of that critical set of franchises that bridge hardcore and casual, and you know where the majority of that money comes from. San Andreas didn't sell 14 million + on the PS2 because of "hardcore gaming"
John McPoop @ May 4th 2008 4:30PM
Well none the less I think that casual games have the chance to ruin what video games have become. Video games have grown with the generation that really ushered them into the type of media they are now. The great games really do a great job of acting as sort of a playable movie with complicated story elements, compelling characters and a vibrant in game world.
It seems this new younger generation of mostly casual gamers have the potential to single handedly ruin the type of games most of us enjoy to play. The Wii is already littered with these types of games that in actuality are just a series of mini games with no story elements, characters or a vibrant in game world.
I don't think we should be saying "fuck the casual crowd" but we do need to realize how it has watered down the Nintedo Wii's selection is with casual games. There has not been very many examples of mature content on the Wii but when there has been they have failed to be anything but a niche (No More Heroes, Manuhunt etc).
A GTA IIV on the Wii would probably sell very well but it would be taking a step back in terms of the actual quality of the game. It is no secret that the Wii is underpowered wen compared to the PS3 & 360. The online infrastructure is also just not there yet for the Wii.
It doesn't make sense fiscally to make a new mature "non casual" IP for the Wii because it would not be portable to the 360 & PS3, it would not be going forward in terms of the technology already implemented in games already released and its questionable if the game would sell well.
I don't think there are to many people that purchased a Wii with the thought of playing some great hardcore games. Most people (like myself) purchased it for the control setup & Nintendo games. Maybe the vocal minority (hardcore gamers) that have a Wii crave titles that push the hardware to its limits and up the ante but the silent minority (casual gamers) could care less about games like GTA IV.
obo @ May 3rd 2008 9:20PM
Funny, reading that part of the interview, it sounded like he was pissed at mainstream media for jumping on the casual Wii-and-PopCap style games bandwagon while ignoring deeper games.
IOW, he's not dissing casual gaming, but how it gets coverage like it's taken over the market, which isn't as true as a lot of reporters outside the enthusaist press would have people believe.
I mean, he's being pretty direct the whole way through. If he wanted to dis casual games, he'd have said, "Fuck casual games." And I doubt GTA4 would have so many casual gaming elements in it, too.
ill trooper @ May 4th 2008 5:19AM
But it takes away all the fun whenyou 'Read The Fucking Article!'
Zsavior @ May 5th 2008 5:55AM
I would have thought that to till he mentioned he thinks gamers want budgets and productions comparable to film. That means he is saying something about the type of games, and the type of gamers Rock Star is catering to.
Here is my question though, in Hollywood the Big Budget action film is usually the shallowest piece of drivel created. Unless suddenly it has become backwards world and Micheal Bay and Bruckheimer have become the great story tellers. We are defending this guys comments, when we know it doesn't take big budgets to make a great story and plot?
Do gamers really feel that threatened by adults, or"casuals" that we will ignore the fact that gaming is heading in a bad direction with this sort of attitude?
Monterey @ May 3rd 2008 9:22PM
GTA is the most popular casual title in gaming. Who is this guy kidding? Pick-up-and-play, the purpose of casual titles, forms the core of GTA's gameplay. GTA's "narratives" range from being downright repulsive to making no sense whatsoever- the attraction to the game being entirely its "pick-up-and-play" CASUAL gameplay.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 9:32PM
But unlike casual games there's an actual game in GTA past the tards who play it for 15 minutes to waste time. Lets see these casuals get 100% in GTA 4.
Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 3rd 2008 9:44PM
I'm not trying to flame here at all, as I have yet to play this beast, but in the past games, getting 100% meant collecting an obscene amount of packages and the sort. I really hope that's not a representation of its completion.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 9:50PM
I don't know everything to get 100% but it's completing all 90 something missions, meet all random characters (the little green dots or w/e that pop up on the minimap every now and then), shoot the 200 or so pidgeons, stunt jumps, police missions, unlock special abilites from each friend, and date all women.
There's probably more but it's not something a casual is going to pull off
Grimble Crumble @ May 3rd 2008 9:58PM
I enjoy playing videogames, I post on Joystiq, I'm not the most social person. You have no life if you do 100% in these games. If the opposite of casual gaming is completing games like GTA 100%, I'd rather play casual games. Seriously, shoot 200 pigeons? That doesn't even sound like an entertaining way to spend a week of your (no)life.
SKI @ May 3rd 2008 9:58PM
I liked DK64's system where you got 100% for completion, then 110% for collecting every thing in the game.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 3rd 2008 10:05PM
Which is why it's a true gaming accomplishment if you can pull it off, cause most people don't have the patience for it. I haven't ever gotten more than 75% in a modern GTA game WITH guides cause the collection parts are grinds. Add the fact that you get almost nothing for doing 100% and you got a tough task at hand.
I'll try with this one since there's an achievement for it and it's small motivation for me but I don't think I'll be able to do it.
Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 3rd 2008 10:09PM
Some people enjoy the mundane, such as collecting every last item, in this case shooting pidgeons. It's akin to my desire to collect every heart container in Zelda. It's that sense of satisfaction.