Counting Rupees: GTA IV vs. Iron Man
Each week Jeff Engel and Geoff Brooks contribute Counting Rupees, a column on the business behind gaming:

According to several "analysts" last week, the successful launch of Grand Theft Auto IV threatened to sink the box office returns for Iron Man. The thinking went that since the game and the movie both target primarily the same demographic (males 18-29), that demographic would stay home and play the game instead of going to see the movie. While it's impossible to declare with complete certainty, as Variety did, that GTA IV had absolutely no effect on Iron Man's opening (with $104.2M in domestic receipts, $201M worldwide, and a release date for a sequel already announced), whatever effect it may have had was clearly not enough to significantly impact the movie. But clearly, many had predicted that the game could adversely affect box office receipts. It makes me wonder -- have we ever seen this sort of effect before?
The most obvious place to start looking would be the last GTA game: San Andreas. GTA: San Andreas debuted on October 26, 2004.
A few days later, the $1.2M movie Saw, with an arguably similar target audience, debuted and not only raked in $18,276,468M on opening weekend, but went on to make $55,185,045 in the US and $103,096,345 worldwide, in addition to spawning three successful sequels (and two more on the way). What's additionally telling about this is that Saw was a completely new property created on a small budget, yet people still apparently put the game down for a few hours so they could go see the movie. Iron Man had the added advantage of being a well-known comic book with a high-profile adaptation. Obviously, Iron Man also did substantially better than Saw, but if people turned out to go see a complete unknown when they had just bought GTA: San Andreas, it seems pretty clear that they would similarly turn out for one of the most hyped movies of the summer. Maybe there's another example I'm missing (although I've tried to find one), but if the last GTA game didn't stop people from going to the movies, there's no reason to believe the new one would either.
The reasons why big video game releases don't impact similarly demographically targeted movies are fairly simple. To begin with, a movie represents a short term "event" for someone. It's something that's easy and (fairly) cheap to do, gets you out of your home and typically represents a social occasion that can be considered "going out." While some games are social experiences and may even have in-person multiplayer modes (Rock Band, Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart), it's still fundamentally a solo activity, particularly for a game like GTA. Going to a movie is often not a solo activity for a lot of people, and even if it is, it still feels like you're taking a break from your home and that, in the words of George Castanza, you're "doing something". With this in mind, big video game releases are far more likely to impact other things you do in your own home such as watching TV, reading books, or viewing movies at home (which is a lot different than going out to see a movie).
Second, a movie only lasts around two hours. Most games are played for far longer than that. It's safe to say that even if someone is playing a game like GTA obsessively after they get it, they'd probably have no problem taking a break for a couple of hours and then coming back to play the game some more. To add to this, a game also costs a lot more money than a movie. This probably contributes to the fact that a person will likely be happy to spend more time with a game, even if it's broken up by a movie, so that they feel they've maximized their investment. In any case, maybe there are some people who are so obsessed with a game that they won't even leave their home for a few hours to see a movie demographically targeted at them (and thus interesting to them), but that likely doesn't represent the vast majority of the gaming audience right now.
So, if these are fairly obvious – even basically acknowledged in the follow-up Variety article – why were analysts predicting problems for the movie? It probably has more to do with the fact that movie ticket sales have been sliding in recent years and industry insiders are just trying to figure out why. The problem is, there's a whole host of other issues people bring up when asked why they're not going to the movies anymore, and I've never seen video games listed. More issues commonly cited are the rise of cheap DVDs, poorer quality movies, more and more pre-movie ads at theaters, and annoying audiences (SSSHHHH!).
Of course, this isn't to say that video games have had no impact at all on the overall rate at which people go to movies, just as the rise of the internet and DVDs have probably had some impact. Certainly, when people have more mediums in which they can consume information and entertainment than they did before, the older mediums are going to see less time to devoted to them. However, what likely happens is that people simply start increasing their "filters" for what they're willing to see. For instance, if a person used to see 2-3 movies a month, that might get reduced to an overall one movie a month. So which movie does he/she see? Probably the one most demographically targeted to them (or their significant other). In an odd way, this means that it's more likely a video game release would impact movies that are not targeted at the same demographics as the game, as those are the movies that people may have given a chance before they had the option of playing a video game. Iron Man, with the strong hype behind it and a strong appeal to the demographically similar GTA IV audience, was never in danger of losing that audience exclusively to the game.
As co-editors of A Link To The Future, Geoff and Jeff like to discuss, among many other topics, the business aspects of gaming. Game companies often make decisions that on their face appear baffling, or even infuriating, to many gamers. Yet when you think hard about them from the company's perspective, many other decisions are eminently sensible, or at least appeared to be so based on the conditions at the time those choices were made. Our goal with this column is to start a conversation about just those topics. While neither Geoff nor Jeff are employed in the game industry, they do have professional backgrounds that are relevant to the discussion. More to the point, they don't claim to have all the answers -- but this is a conversation worth having. You can reach them at

The most obvious place to start looking would be the last GTA game: San Andreas. GTA: San Andreas debuted on October 26, 2004.
"If the last GTA game didn't stop people from going to the movies, there's no reason to believe the new one would either" |
The reasons why big video game releases don't impact similarly demographically targeted movies are fairly simple. To begin with, a movie represents a short term "event" for someone. It's something that's easy and (fairly) cheap to do, gets you out of your home and typically represents a social occasion that can be considered "going out." While some games are social experiences and may even have in-person multiplayer modes (Rock Band, Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart), it's still fundamentally a solo activity, particularly for a game like GTA. Going to a movie is often not a solo activity for a lot of people, and even if it is, it still feels like you're taking a break from your home and that, in the words of George Castanza, you're "doing something". With this in mind, big video game releases are far more likely to impact other things you do in your own home such as watching TV, reading books, or viewing movies at home (which is a lot different than going out to see a movie).
" Even if someone is playing a game like GTA obsessively ... they'd probably have no problem taking a break for a couple of hours " |
So, if these are fairly obvious – even basically acknowledged in the follow-up Variety article – why were analysts predicting problems for the movie? It probably has more to do with the fact that movie ticket sales have been sliding in recent years and industry insiders are just trying to figure out why. The problem is, there's a whole host of other issues people bring up when asked why they're not going to the movies anymore, and I've never seen video games listed. More issues commonly cited are the rise of cheap DVDs, poorer quality movies, more and more pre-movie ads at theaters, and annoying audiences (SSSHHHH!).
Of course, this isn't to say that video games have had no impact at all on the overall rate at which people go to movies, just as the rise of the internet and DVDs have probably had some impact. Certainly, when people have more mediums in which they can consume information and entertainment than they did before, the older mediums are going to see less time to devoted to them. However, what likely happens is that people simply start increasing their "filters" for what they're willing to see. For instance, if a person used to see 2-3 movies a month, that might get reduced to an overall one movie a month. So which movie does he/she see? Probably the one most demographically targeted to them (or their significant other). In an odd way, this means that it's more likely a video game release would impact movies that are not targeted at the same demographics as the game, as those are the movies that people may have given a chance before they had the option of playing a video game. Iron Man, with the strong hype behind it and a strong appeal to the demographically similar GTA IV audience, was never in danger of losing that audience exclusively to the game.
As co-editors of A Link To The Future, Geoff and Jeff like to discuss, among many other topics, the business aspects of gaming. Game companies often make decisions that on their face appear baffling, or even infuriating, to many gamers. Yet when you think hard about them from the company's perspective, many other decisions are eminently sensible, or at least appeared to be so based on the conditions at the time those choices were made. Our goal with this column is to start a conversation about just those topics. While neither Geoff nor Jeff are employed in the game industry, they do have professional backgrounds that are relevant to the discussion. More to the point, they don't claim to have all the answers -- but this is a conversation worth having. You can reach them at












Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Fernando Rocker @ May 9th 2008 11:59AM
Iron Man is now the best comic adaptation film. Sorry Spider Man.
Robert Downey Jr. is amazing as Tony Stark. It's one of the few movies that I had to see twice in the movie theater.
=p
Daniel @ May 9th 2008 12:04PM
I agree. Iron Man had such fantastic casting that you never doubted the characters for a second. Especially Downey. Whenever I read Iron Man, from now on I will hear Downey's voice.
embassy @ May 9th 2008 12:05PM
batman begins?
and soon, the dark knight?
Cyro @ May 9th 2008 12:06PM
I totally agree with you man. I was totally surprised with this movie. Awesome indeed!
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ May 9th 2008 12:16PM
Still makes me wonder, who the hell are they going to cast as Cap for the 2009 Avengers movie now?
Senator Dracula @ May 9th 2008 12:30PM
Matt Damon = Captain America
kbomb1upc @ May 9th 2008 12:43PM
@Sheepy
You would never guess who is rumored to play Cap...
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mcconaughey%20an%20odd%20choice%20for%20captain%20america_1067902
....Please no, I would rather burn my retinas
Batzarro(A.K.A Rap-Rock Cameo) @ May 9th 2008 12:52PM
embassy: I think everyone's tastes are their own, but Ironman had more entertainment than Batman Begins. And they didn't need to say the magic word every 5 minutes.
Can't speak for Knight, though...
kbomb1upc @ May 9th 2008 12:52PM
@Fernando
That's because Iron Man was made from internal. Marvel Studios made Iron Man unlike Spiderman (Sony Pictures), X-Men (20th Century Fox) and Fantastic Four (20th Century Fox). This allowed Marvel to have total control over what will happen in the story and unlike the crap that was X-Men 3. The rest of Marvel movies will be made in this fashion so prepare for some more great movies.
"Other Marvel superhero movies were announced: "Iron Man 2" due out April 30, 2010 "Thor," due out June 4, 2010; "The First Avenger: Captain America," May 6, 2011; "The Avengers," July 2011; and "Ant-Man," which is in development but has no release date..."
ww3ace @ May 9th 2008 2:21PM
I actually invited some friends over to watch batman begins, because I originally thought it was a good movie. We mystery science theater'ed that movie so much, I can't actually see why it was originally seen as a good movie anymore...
Shadow El @ May 9th 2008 3:20PM
The only question on my mind is whether Spidey will be in The Avengers or not.
I hope so...
But then again, I also wanted a Civil War movie, just so I could see the Iron Spider on the big screen. >_>
And also, you forgot The Incredible Hulk.
LaughingTarget @ May 9th 2008 4:39PM
Being directly Marvel doesn't mean the stories won't suck. Look at about 80% of the entire Marvel catalog, loads of hack storytelling.
Anyway, Batman is still #1, but Iron Man is pushing the bar up for the next Batman.
Beatle_Meyer @ May 10th 2008 3:50AM
Uhh, don't you remember Sin City? I haven't seen Iron Man yet, so I'm not saying SC is better, but why only compare Iron Man to Spiderman? Maybe you mean best super hero movie rather than "comic adaptation film".
I'm not trying to bash on you, I just wanted to remind you how authentic an adaptation Sin City was.
rv @ May 9th 2008 12:05PM
You are right about home, I have missed the nba playoffs since gta came out. You don't,however, mention a big reason why movie audiences have declined- piracy.
mko @ May 9th 2008 3:15PM
Being out at sea for months on end makes it impossible to see teh Ironman.!
Also commenting on internet blogs caused a 43.4% drop in movie viewership among females and males ages 18-32 last year.
LaughingTarget @ May 9th 2008 4:40PM
I think it has less to do with piracy and more to do with the $9.50 tickets. My local theater has $5 before noon and Iron Man was almost sold out all week during those slots.
Zsavior @ May 9th 2008 12:08PM
I just can't go see Ironman cause of the comics, and I hate tony stark so very very much.
Shadow El @ May 9th 2008 3:21PM
I hate Tony too, I'm glad they made him such a hateable character in the movies as well. >_>
Stephen Lang @ May 9th 2008 12:15PM
Yeah, I don't understand all the hooplah about comparing video game sales to movie sales. I mean it's sorta tangentially interesting but that's about it. If we're going to make these sorts of comparison, then I think McDonald's beat both GTA 4 and Iron Man combined for the week.
Orangecoke @ May 9th 2008 12:18PM
That's funny but not really a valid arguement. Both properties are audio-visual entertainment with big budgets, trying to attract an audience from basically the same demographics. So that's where the comparisons and interest come from.
Stephen Lang @ May 9th 2008 12:36PM
Yeah, it was a joke of course.
I think the reason why I thought of the comparison is that these analyses are typically done as an argument of the 'legitimization' of the video game industry. But IMO such attempts are simultaneously flawed (money doesn't legitimize or convey stature) and unnecessary (the movie industry is no great shakes anyway.)
embassy @ May 9th 2008 12:16PM
ironman was less of a "film" and more of a live-action cartoon. actually thats the case for avout 95% of comic-book films. which isnt a bad thing at all. i enjoyed it. but it has zero substance or depth. even spiderman 1 and 2 ( 3 doesnt exist to me) with all its flaws managed to ground the characters and give them some weight and life.
: SEMI-SPOILER :
does anyone honestly care about pepper potts? or war machine? they werent fleshed out at all.
the newly re-vamped batman series, on the other hand, is 100% depth and substance with truly well thought-out and explored characters and backstory etc. i think more comic books films should take that model because then the films can live on its own without the license. Batman begins is a fine film on its own merits and the license only suppliments the great storytelling and atmostphere created.
it could stand as just a great film in and of itself. does iron-man? what would that film be without the license? the rocketeer? jumpers?
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ May 9th 2008 12:28PM
SPOILER ALERT
Well, the problem with doing the Iron Man movie is that Tony Stark WAS such a magnificient asshole. Even as he became Iron Man, there was the whole egotrip he enjoyed. Does anyone care about Pepper Potts? Well, it took them over 10 years in the strip to start fleshing out that character (of course, to be fair, this was also the era of comic books where Angel dodged adoring fans like he was Paul McCartney). Likewise with War Machine.
The problem with Marvel characters in their original edict of "heroes with problems" is more often than not, this wasn't truly deeply explored until the 70's or 80's. Granted, the CCA had a big hand in that but still. Batman, meanwhile, started as a deep character with great origins and slummed for a bit during the Marvel Birth era, and started getting back on track before even Marvel started getting ON track.
Iron Man, as a comic movie, was good. It explored as deeply as the characters went without going into the alcoholism problems which we at least saw a glimpse of.
Now here comes my question... will we see Nick Fury recruiting Bruce Banner in that movie as well. We KNOW an Avengers movie is slated for 2009-2010. We KNOW Iron Man has now been approached. And more importantly, in the Avengers movie, will we see the Super Friends treatment or will be be more like the Ultimates (considering Nick Fury is Samuel L Jackson) where the heroes are having more difficulty dealing with each other than villians?
Iron Man on it's own is damn good, but it also stands as decent underpinnings to the whole Marvel Universe going to the big screen and provided they keep Ratner away this time, could become a good thing like the James Bond franchise.
Shadow El @ May 9th 2008 3:23PM
War Machine's gonna be in Iron Man 2. Just Rhodes (sp?) hinting at it was good enough for me. :D
"Next time, baby."
Rockel @ May 9th 2008 12:27PM
I did a quick google search and found this:
http://news.filefront.com/film-execs-blame-halo-3-for-poor-movie-ticket-sales/
I don't remember reading that on joystiq though I could be wrong. I guess the idea has been floating around a lot. I am also of the opinion that a game won't affect the ticket sales of a movie. Now, if you make a sucky movie on the other hand...
Nomi @ May 9th 2008 1:37PM
no thats because the movies that came out around halo 3 sucked...
Nomi @ May 9th 2008 1:42PM
actually, i take that back, there were some good movies but none that were for mainstream audiences or none that could have been blockbusters...jesse james, clayton and the kingdom to name a few.
LaughingTarget @ May 9th 2008 4:44PM
That time of the year is traditionally bad at the box office.
el jason @ May 9th 2008 12:34PM
iron man execs should be glad they were the first summer blockbuster. this movie was just lame. i would have much rather seen the drunk iron man from toy fair's comics than this. and robert downy is still playin the same part from less than zero where he sucks guys off for money if you ask me. also gta4 has the same problems as the other gta's it gets so boring so quick, theres why it didnt stop anyone from going to the movies.
Twist @ May 9th 2008 12:36PM
I had no problem putting down GTA4 for Ironman and I hated Ironman in the comics. The movie was terrific though. I rate it right up there with Spiderman 2 and X-Men 2 which are two of my favorite comic to movie adaptations (not as good as Sin City or 300 of course). I wouldn't mind seeing it again but I am already getting burned out on GTA4 (already put about 40 hours into it).
Tim The Enchanter @ May 9th 2008 12:52PM
But see, that's what happens when you finance things yourself. Marvel did it all, and got the right people to consult/build the project. This gives me hope for future Marvel movies, just as the newer Batman movies give me hope for the next ones.
ComicShaman @ May 9th 2008 12:52PM
I think the real lesson of the GTA IV/Iron Man thing is that the whole thing about Halo 3 hurting box office returns was just so much smoke up the bum. I seem to recall feeling that lousy movies were more to blame at the time.
koehler83 @ May 9th 2008 1:05PM
Fuck the theater! I dont wanna pay $15 to go watch shitty picture with scratches and burn marks!
What year is this? I think its time that movie theaters joined the digital age. Get some fucking HD projectors for christ's sake!
embassy @ May 9th 2008 1:21PM
but i think thats what makes film, "film". otherwise digital cams wouldnt try to emulate that "film grain" look.
Nomi @ May 9th 2008 1:43PM
I actually like the burn marks...and that little skip. Adds to the movie experience.
Gabriel @ May 9th 2008 2:00PM
Why does no one state the obvious? You can't so a strict dollar-to-sollar comparison on this. GTA IV is $60. The price of Iron Man tickets varies. (I got mine for around $12.) This brings major questions of the reliability of such comparisons. Also, keep in mind that it's a potentially un-ending game(Unless you get RROD. JK, XBOX 360 is my console of choice.) versus a two-hour movie. What would happen if there was only two hours of gameplay in GTA and it was $60 to see Iron Man. There are too many differences between these two even with the common comparison of an audio-visual stimulus to even make any judgements based on the earning of one over the other. If my math is right, more people saw Iron Man than those who bought GTA IV. You've got something that's around 20% the price of GTA IV that made half the money. Iron Man wins. Besides, the larger casual gaming market is probably not quite ready for something with the content of GTA.
embassy @ May 9th 2008 2:08PM
obviously more people are going to see a 8-15 dollar movie compared to a 60 dollar game. but while GTA sold less games than iroman sold tickets, its more impressive cuz a $60 buy-in is alot higher risk for the consumer, thus a more conscious purchase than a 8-15 dollar movie ticket which is an impulse social experience for alot of people.
Gabriel @ May 9th 2008 2:10PM
Sorry for posting again so soon, but I just noticed koehler83's post.
koehler83, they are getting digital projectors. I watched Iron Man on DLP projectors and it was sweet. The problem is, depending on how good you want your projector to be, how large the room is, how large the screen is, what sound quality you want, etc.,etc. the right projector can cost anywhere from $20,000 to $200,000. Most theaters can't afford that investment.
SickHumour @ May 9th 2008 2:26PM
I'm not sure how much the opinions of movie critics matter to some, but this is why I watched Iron Man and have no interest whatsoever in ever watching Saw 1-5
46-ish percent for Saw ( http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/saw/ ) vs 92-ish percent for Iron Man ( http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/iron_man/ )
Mike @ May 9th 2008 2:32PM
That's an excuse used by crappy movies
theturtle363 @ May 9th 2008 5:46PM
I bought Iron Man. Sure it probably didn't deserve it but what other game besides Marvel Ultimate Alliance lets me be Iron Man in 3D?
LAWL @ May 9th 2008 6:32PM
Ironman was cool but batman was still way better,and the new one will blow every superhero film done to date.
And i think V is based on comics,and hell that movie was awsome i didnt knew anything about the comic when i saw it and the movie could stand alone,it was great.
Kuro @ May 9th 2008 7:18PM
Tony Sparks wrote this article in a cave!
umm....hello??? @ May 9th 2008 8:12PM
...just goes to show that if the movie industry didn't release so many suck-ass movies like the one that the movie industry blamed the videogame industry for lack of ticket sales and instead released more kick-ass movies like this one that maybe we'd be more willing to take more breaks from our videogames...