Miyamoto: Ocarina of Time could have been in first-person perspective

by Griffin McElroy { May 11th 2008 at 12:30PM }

There aren't many gamers who don't harbor fond memories associated with the Nintendo 64's classic adventure (and to many, the greatest installment in the Hylian franchise), Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. In addition to its beloved story and incredible visuals, it was a groundbreaking third-person adventure through an intricately detailed fantasy world -- but would we (and Game Rankings) still hold the triforce-hunting adventure in such high regard if we had experienced Hyrule directly through the point-eared protagonist's eyes?

In a recent discussion between Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and revolutionary game developer (and Time's most influential person of 2008) Shigeru Miyamoto, it was outed that Shiggy secretly possesses a penchant for first-person shooters (notably, Rare's seminal N64 shooter Goldeneye), and that he'd considered creating Ocarina of Time using an Oblivion-esque first-person perspective. We're not quite sure how this would have affected the title -- but we're certainly terrified of the prospect of witnessing Darunia's sexy dance of seduction first-hand.

Tags: fps, goldeneye, iwata, legendofzelda, n64, nintendo, ocarinaoftime, oot, shigeru, shigerumiyamoto, zelda

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

SoulBlade @ May 11th 2008 12:36PM

I would love to see what Miyamoto has in mind for a FPS or even a First Person game. I don't think he had a lot of say in Metroid Prime, but I could be wrong.

I'm glad OoT was 3rd person - I wouldn't want it any other way. It was without a doubt a game worthy of a 10.

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 12:39PM

Metroid Prime 1 is still my favorite game ever (Metroid is my favorite series).

You have no idea how much I love that game. It's perfect to me.

Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 11th 2008 1:08PM

My fave as well, Fernando. No game has captured that experience before and after. Portal comes close. All the tiny details and atmosphere make it the perfect game.

Mr Khan @ May 11th 2008 1:20PM

I agree with Fernando and Cesaria. My favorite game ever, though Sonic Adventure 2 and Super Mario Galaxy come close

Jhongerkong @ May 11th 2008 1:23PM

Wasn't Miyamoto overseeing MP? I remember Retro wanted to make it 3rd person but Miyamoto went for a 1st person view.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 1:33PM

I hated MP1. The control scheme was wretched and Samus turned like a 5-ton truck. I actually prefer the Wii MP game... it's the first one in the series with good controls. And Super Metroid is still better than any of them.

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 1:36PM

Vidikron

The controls was the first thing I liked about Metroid Prime. You have to remember that it's not a FPS. It's an adventure and puzzle solving game with a first person perspective.

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 1:43PM

I'm pretty sure it was Miyamoto's idea, or so I had heard, to make MP first-person.

I'll also join the MP1-loving crew, though I have to say I liked 3 better (as one of the top 3 games of all time). It's weak-points were vitually non-existant, and reading the reviews without looking at the scores (I'm thinking of IGN in particular) you would've expected the game to get 10s. The only real complaint I ever saw was that it was "not too different from the first two games in the series," although based on recent events we all know such arguments are pure fabrication.

As to complaints about the control scheme of MP1: I fell in love with it immediately because it felt like a point and click instead of an FPS. The pacing, the scanning, the detail all brought me back to the classic point-click adventures of the 90s. Even without combat that game would've been brilliant.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 1:45PM

The lack of free look was inexcusable. And you can make excuses for it all you want, but the combat in the game standard FPS. Just because it had a bunch of back tracking and item hunting doesn't mean it gets a free pass to use sub-standard controls.

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 1:47PM

sub-standard controls?

Double analogs is the most sub-standard control scheme ever.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 1:51PM

What? You're just speaking pur nonsense now. DA controls are many times better than the crap MP1 used. And DA controls basically revolutionized many genres on consoles. Everything from FPS to action/aventure games use them now.

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 2:09PM

I get the impression that Vidikron has never played a point-and-click, or at least doesn't like them. The problem is trying to look at the game as an extension of the FPS genre, as evidenced by your comment about free-look. There's an art of presentation to those old games that still lives on today, and the somewhat restrictive perspective of MP is in reality a lot more believable and immersive than the ability to walk around while looking straight down through one's own feet.

Seriously, I'm not saying you have to like the game. It your opinion and you can damn well play what you please. Just be careful about making universal statements about the quality of controls.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 2:17PM

Sorry, but MP has jack crap to do with point and click adventure games. The combat in the game is pure FPS. Just because you have to stop and scan stuff with your visor doesn't even remotely make it like a point and click game. That's rather absurd.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 2:22PM

And how is MP more believable due to the restrictions? Listen to yourself, you're trying to make excuses for the poor controls. Can you not walk and look around at the same time? So how a first person game where you can't move and look around at the same time more believable or immersive than one where you can?

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 2:23PM

Right, just because the game dumps you into a situation with minimal introduction, it has nothing to do with point-and-clicks. And just because it makes you discover the story on your own, piece by piece. And just because it makes you collect items and use them to solve puzzles. And just because it progresses at a creeping rate to a heart-racing conclusion. And just because it makes you study your enemies instead of racing in with gun's blazing. No, you see, the fact is, Metroid Prime cannot be an adventure game because it has missiles. And any game with missiles is an FPS and shall be judged accordingly.

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 2:25PM

And as for you second comment... you must be joking. How often you you run at full speed backwards? How often do you look forward and walk sideways? How often do you whip around 180 degrees and immediately focus on what you see?

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 2:37PM

"Right, just because the game dumps you into a situation with minimal introduction, it has nothing to do with point-and-clicks. And just because it makes you discover the story on your own, piece by piece. And just because it makes you collect items and use them to solve puzzles."

You can do that in just about any genre. You can even NOT do that in point and click games. The way the story unfolds is not genre specific. And, again, the combat is pure FPS. That alone blows your entire point away.

"And as for you second comment... you must be joking. How often you you run at full speed backwards? How often do you look forward and walk sideways? How often do you whip around 180 degrees and immediately focus on what you see?"

First off, FPS games handle things like that in many different ways. You do realize they don't all play like Unreal Tournament, right? And on the flip side, how is MP any mre realistic? You can't free look which is completely unrealistic. She turns unrealistically slow. She's supposed to be a bounty hunter with an advanced suit and she can't do basic motions that even children can do. Even if you have a problem with how fast other FPS games move (and, yes, MP is an FPS), I fail to see how MP can be seen as any more realistic. I mean, for God's sake, she can turn into a ball that clearly can't contain her mass and can then drop bombs that appear out of no where. I'm not sure you want to be taking this discussion down the "believability" road. I personally fine with that stuff, I just don't care for bad controls. MP could have easily implemented DA controls and the game would have been better.

Cesaria (MKW:2621-2994-1376) @ May 11th 2008 2:39PM

But vidikron, the controls may have been slower, but the amount of enemies and the way they attacked compensated for that. I never ONCE had a problem killing an enemy in MP. EVER. So the control issue cannot even be brought up. I can however say that traditional FPS games are harder to control because you're expected to have a master of the more 'in depth' (yeah, one extra stick) controls. Go play it and tell me you have problems killing enemies. Seriously.

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 2:49PM

I don't see what about an extension is so hard for you to comprehend. I didn't say it was a point-and-click, I said it was a spiritual successor to the genre. And while all games determine their own pacing and storytelling, to suggest that certain methods aren't associated with certain genres is to imply that gameplay and presentation are inherently separate parts of a game, which is far from true. The fact is, gameplay facilitates storytelling, and thereby a game about a space marine fighting an alien invasion would make little sense as an adventure, whereas a game about a futuristic archaelogist uncovering the mystery of an apocalypse would make little sense as a fast-paced shoot-em-up.

Additionally, why does combat preclude a game from being an adventure game? As Cesaria pointed out, the combat is made for the control system, and the best place to see this is the impeccable boss battles. Think of an FPS that has great boss battles. I can't offhand, though I'm sure there's probably one out there. However, the genre control scheme and skill set isn't defined for large scale battles, and Metroid addresses this by introducing a different method of input.

Why you've made a non-sequitur point about the morph ball is beyond me, that has nothing to do with the level of immersion in the game, and there are certainly ridiculous things in any science fiction. Actually, one of my favorite scans in MP1 was a Space Pirate Log about trying to copy Samus' morph ball, which reported that "the test subjects were horribly crippled."

t_m @ May 11th 2008 2:54PM

Metroid Prime wasn't an FPS in the traditonal sense... it was a platform/adventure game with a FP perspective.

It took me a while to get used to the controls, but that was because I was used to Dual Analogs. But for a game with as much platforming and jumping as MP its unlikely that a dual analog setup would have worked well.

Lots of people who are now used to DA controls forget that for new players/non-fps gamers they are really confusing. I remember reading a number of comments from gamers who could never manage DA controls in console FPS games, but picked up the MP controls really quickly.

They were only weird for some of us because we were used to DA already.

I'd rate Ocarina over MP1.. but I did think MP1 was a fantastic game.. the feeling of discovery and the feelof the environment was awesome. The only flaw was that they wasted their time adding a MP mode... they should have spent the time on making the SP mode even cooler.

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 2:55PM

Yourself

I remember that log: The Space Pirates tried to reverse engineering the morph ball tech with very bad results.

That's the kind of details I loved about Metroid Prime 1.

And I loved how the game felt like a huge open world.

Vidikron (FU) @ May 11th 2008 3:04PM

"Additionally, why does combat preclude a game from being an adventure game?"

I didn't mean it wasn't an adventure game, I just don't see how it's even remotely like a point and click adventure game. Genres aren't generally defined by the way the story unfolds, they are defined by their gameplay. Point and click and exactly that... point and click. But that's all rather pointless, FPS/Action/Adventure aren't all mix quite a bit these days anyway. MP's combat is pure FPS, but it also has a lot of adventure aspects.

" Think of an FPS that has great boss battles. I can't offhand, though I'm sure there's probably one out there."

There are A LOT of FPS games out there with large boss battles. MP would have worked perfectly fine with a standard control scheme. MP3 itself controls more like a standard FPS and it works fine. I mean, the pointer is really just serves the same function as the right stick in a DA set-up or the mouse in a PC FPS.

"Why you've made a non-sequitur point about the morph ball is beyond me, that has nothing to do with the level of immersion in the game"

Bullshit. You were trying to argue that turing a quick 180 turn isn't realistic, so I simply pointed out that MP has far more unrealistic stuff than that. Again, I'm personally not bothered by stuff like that, but I used that to point out the ridiculous nature of your own claims against other FPS.

I just think free look should be a standard feature for any first person game. If games want to take things to a higher level and give characters super human abilities, that's fine with me. But they shouldn't reduce your character to having below normal human abilities... unless there's some aspect of the story that that plays into (i.e. you're handicapped in some way, etc..).

Mr Khan @ May 11th 2008 3:20PM

Personally, i never "got" duel-analogue controls. They always confused the hell outta me. The simplicity of Metroid Prime's control scheme was easier to pick up. The bad controls about Metroid Prime were the jumping mechanics, it took about 10 hours in (iirc, my first runthrough was a whopping 36 hours) before a jump in that game felt like more than a random leap of faith

Yourself @ May 11th 2008 3:20PM

Hmm... you still really seem not to get what's going on by your insistance that the combat is "pure FPS" and by ignoring the fact that storytelling and storyline are completely different concepts. Furthermore, the morph ball point. Again, immersion and believability are not realism. I never used the term realism, I never meant the term realism. The point is that the game makes you feel like what you think it would be as a space-age explorer.

You also seem convinced that you can't look around in the game, which is wrong once you realize that the GCN controller has an R button and that MP uses that R button. My point about facing is in relation to the human capability to move and look at the same time. When most people look around and focus on things, they tend to be stationary lest they run into something. Though MP forces the character to be stationary while looking, this is more tolerable than instituting an inhuman neck and focus.

Clearly my point about point-and-clicks is beyond you, I'll simply have to ascribe that to different background in gaming. Let's also be clear that I have nothing against FPS's. I am a proud owner of all of the HL games, BioShock, Project Snowblind, etc. etc. etc., as well as having been a frequent Tribes player as a child. It's just clear that MP draws far more elements from games like King's Quest and Myst than it does from Half Life.

samfish @ May 11th 2008 3:54PM

Even though I make no secret about not liking FPS games, I did find the controls in Metroid helped make the game more enjoyable than most other shooter type games. It was more simple which made it more accessible to me.

And it was a point 'n' click in that you point around and scan things and unfold the story primarily through scanning objects. Calling it a 'spiritual successor' to the point 'n' click genre seems reasonable to me.

That all said, I'm still not a big fan of the games, but of all 3 of them, I enjoyed the first one somewhat. Hell, I eventually got around to beating it, so to me that has to count for something!

Metroid Prime 3, though, was just...ugh. Didn't like it at all!

Kujel @ May 11th 2008 4:43PM

I personally found MP3 to be a lot like Zelda in space, very cool concept but I couldn't stand MP1's controls. I couldn't stand having to stand still to fight, but the puzzles and exploring were brilliant. BTW I loved the visor it was a great idea.

Foetoid @ May 11th 2008 6:02PM

Come on Vidikron, do you seriously think DA is that good. The N64 Turok-Style controls were far better for FPS games compared to the huge step-backwards that was dual-analog. Metroid Prime got the controls perfect. If it was a normal generic action-packed fps with tons of enemies (like Halo 1/2/3 etc) then the normal dual-analog controls would have sufficed.

It was a different style of game, demanding different controls, and not once did i ever wish i had normal DA controls in the 8 times i've finished the game. DA controls spoil games, and would have made a complete mess of Metroid Prime. Resistance was a crap game because of DA, Halo 1/2/3 as well (well, they're crap anyway, even on PC). Gears of War tho was great, and the controls suited well.

BananaBoat @ May 11th 2008 11:59PM

I'm hours late to this flamewar, but I'll throw my two cents into the ring.

No metroid is better than any Zelda or Mario except Mario 2 and Zelda 2. Ocarina of Time, Link to the Past, Twilight Princess etc, etc, are all better than every Metroid ever made. Yes Ocarina of Time deserves to be the highest rated game ever. No, Metroid does not (coincidentally it's not).

My vote for best game ever? 2D: Mario Brothers 3 3D: Ocarina of Time. Win for Nintendo? Yes.

(I still wuv joo PS3 and Xbox 360 *Huggle*)

Esat Dedezade @ May 11th 2008 12:36PM

I hate to say this but... blow up doll expression or is that just me?

Great game though, good memories, although the first boss in the deku tree was a pain in the ass seeing as I have a phobia of spiders....

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 12:37PM

I don't thin a first person persepective would work for a Zelda title.

I prefer an over the shoulder perspective for rhe next Zelda game.

Eric @ May 13th 2008 9:04AM

Way late to this post but MP1 is hands down my favorite game all time. DA would have been fine, but the game had a unique design and the controls helped the platforming aspect of the game tremendously. Most of the reviews of the game bemoaned the lack of DA at least as an option, which is fair, but hell, it got 9+ to 10's all over the place.

Game Informer recently did a list of the top 10 boss fights and included (of course) the end of Super Meetroid but not Metroid Prime. Blasphemy!

Lord Bowser @ May 11th 2008 12:41PM

I read the title and my immediate reaction was FPS. What a horrid idea that'd have been...

A first person perspective would have been a great idea. Who'd of thought of that around 1995-1996. Miyamoto is truly one of the few idealists in the industry.

Esat Dedezade @ May 11th 2008 1:00PM

I hate to say this Lord Bowser but I just read all of the comments on the GOW 2 post and I just cannot see myself taking your comments seriously even if they are valid and relevant.

I know thats got nothing to do with well anything and I've got no reason to say but just thought I'd say that so maybe in the future you think before you post and how your posts reflect to other readers.

Lord Bowser @ May 11th 2008 1:04PM

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Matthew 7:1

Benny @ May 11th 2008 1:14PM

So long, King Bows-ee!

Mario 6:4

Jhongerkong @ May 11th 2008 1:25PM

@Esat

QFT

tmacairjordan87 @ May 11th 2008 1:27PM

It's easy to say things like this years later, cause no one knows if it's true. By the way I thought of zelda in FPS mode back in 1993. See I can do that too!

TheHuntIsOn @ May 11th 2008 1:37PM

Oh noes for expressing an opinion. Lest we feel offended by a random visitors quaint speech.

el serpiente @ May 11th 2008 3:10PM

Hunt, he has a long legacy of troll-douchery, much like yourself.

I can see why you jump to his defense...

Mr Khan @ May 11th 2008 3:23PM

el serpiente sez:

"Hi pot, i'm kettle. You know, you're kinda black."

TheHuntIsOn @ May 11th 2008 4:21PM

el serpiente; but you've also been on the sending end of troll-like comments so I don't know. So are you judging trolls by the side their on despite being the same type of person?

Again - getting wound up by quaint comments?

ApolloIV @ May 11th 2008 11:05PM

Your trolling was funny at first. It's getting bland though :(

Sesur @ May 11th 2008 12:47PM

No, just... no.

Corbo @ May 11th 2008 12:54PM

Given all the puzzle-solving and the combat system in OoT, I don't think a first person perspective would have worked. If it had been built from the ground up with one in mind then a good game might have been possible (especially with Miyamoto in charge) but I doubt it would have been such a classic.

Since the early tech demos were all third person, I'm guessing this never made it past the "tossing ideas around" stage of the design. Thankfully.

t_m @ May 11th 2008 3:01PM

I think it could have worked pretty well. You often ended up switching into first person mode to look around and shoot anyway. For most of the dungeons it'd have worked fine.

The boss battles on the other hand might have been tricky. I think it'd have worked out like Metroid Prime.

Personally though, I'm glad they made it 3rd person. And of course, the change from small to big link wouldn't have been as dramatic in 1st person.

shawn @ May 11th 2008 12:59PM

sorry but zelda 1 and zelda a link to the past were my top favorites i couldnt get into the n64 titles

Fernando Rocker @ May 11th 2008 1:08PM

My overhead perspective favorite Zelda game is The Minish Cap. Too bad almost no one played that game =(

But overall, Ocarina of Time is my favorite Zelda game. I love the story, and the music is very good (specially because the introduction of Zelda's Lullaby in the series).