Haze says no to HD, yes to HDD
by Ludwig Kietzmann 
{ May 19th 2008 at 12:25PM }
Though the PlayStation 3 will upscale 576p images to 720p (1280x720), it's unlikely to provide Free Radical's penance in the eagle eyes of pixel-counting pedants. With any luck, people will be too busy complaining about geebees to notice the lack of pees, as Ubisoft also confirmed that Haze will require a 4GB installation. Look forward to discussions involving the game's more obscure features (gameplay, story, blah blah blah) once it's out on May 20.
[Via Eurogamer]
Read -- Not very many Ps
Read -- Too many GBs
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Jon2309 @ May 19th 2008 12:29PM
And thus, the fanboys swarmed, and many brain cells were lost.
BananaBoat @ May 19th 2008 1:49PM
If this were a game I cared about, maybe I'd mind the lowered resolution (probably not though. COD4 isn't 720p, and it's stunning). As it stands though, the demo has shown me that this game is about as generic of an FPS as is possible. Injecting crap to make enemies glow...oh joy....it's almost like thermal imaging in any number of other games. They hyped this game up so far, that the actual end product couldn't have hoped to compare.
I find it funny that early (very early) buzz for this game was that it's graphics rivaled those of Crysis, except on a console. Having played the demo, I can say that Haze doesn't come anywhere close. Haze should be at the bottom of any list of games to buy that includes Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Theft Auto 4 (if you haven't already bought it), Resistance 2, etc.
James @ May 19th 2008 3:07PM
*Throws out 20gb PS3* *buys 60gb*
Hmm, reminds me of something....
BananaBoat @ May 19th 2008 4:36PM
I feel for anyone that got the 20 or the 40. I got the 80 at Christmas and I've already almost filled all 80 gigs with demo's and trailers and themes etc.
My launch day 360 (what is it, 20gb? I forget) cries every time I have to delete an old demo to make room for a new one... ;_;
Anonim @ May 19th 2008 4:52PM
1024x576
It is nearly SD PAL game (720x576)
LOL
NEXT: WAR ON RESOLUTIONS - MGS4 ;)
Full 720p - 1280x720 = 921,600 pixels
Some sub-HD games:
Lair - 800x1080 = 864,000 pixels
MGS4 - 1024x768 = 786,432 pixels
Metal Gear Online - 1024x768 = 786,432 pixels
GTA4 (PS3) - 1152x640 = 737,280 pixels
Halo3 - 1152x640 = 737,280 pixels
Dark Sector (PS3) - 1152x640 = 737,280 pixels
Call of Duty 4 (PS3 , X360) - 1024x600 = 614,400 pixels
Haze (PS3) - 1024x576 = 589,824 pixels
the_insider @ May 20th 2008 3:00AM
Slowly but surely people will learn to understand that this generation of consoles is simply not powerful enough to really run games at 1080p, yet alone even 720p in some cases. The whole Sony 1080p hype should look a bit silly by now, and it makes it a bit more understandable why Microsoft wasn't pushing the 1080p resolution initially.
Obviously, 1080p is great for movie playback and both consoles are perfectly capable and useable for this purpose, but with regards to gaming I sure hope this whole resolution war fades away... for now.
Next generation, however, we might finally get Sony's promise of 1080p 4D games @ 120fps as it seems their initial claims are usually off by about a generation. ;) (i.e. Sony claimed PS2 = 'Toy Story' like graphics, and arguably the PS3 could create something approaching that level, especially a non-interactive sequence.)
Myke @ May 19th 2008 12:31PM
I pity those who went with the 20GB PS3's early on, as usual the early adopters get the shaft.
Huey2k2 @ May 19th 2008 12:34PM
Seriously, the whole reason I switched to console gaming is because it's fast and easy and I don't have to upgrade every 6 months to be able to play the best games.
I hope that installs aren't going to become the norm for console games, because I may as well just switch back to PC gaming if they do.
Jacksons @ May 19th 2008 1:39PM
@Huey2k2
And yet I'd kill to be able to pay newegg $60 to slap a 160GB HDD on the Wii. Okay that's overdoing it, but you get the point.
Cellien @ May 19th 2008 1:54PM
Yeah, the hdd install stuff is outta hand. This is where the 360 and Wii got it right. There's a fine line between console and PC gaming, and PS3 is stepping into the parts that were annoying with PC gaming in the first place.
Also, 4 gig install... This has me wondering if they are utilizing the 50 gigs of disc... Wouldn't it be a larger install? I mean 4 gigs isn't even half a DVD.
oshin @ May 19th 2008 1:58PM
What hard drives are cool for:
Porno
Movies
Save games
updates
backwards compatibility
demos
What Hard drives are not cool for:
20 minute installations
agonising what to take off when you fill it
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ May 19th 2008 2:16PM
oshin, you do realize so far only Capcom has achieved the 20 minute install, right? No?!? Oh well... but you'll keep using it as the norm rather than the exception. Do you think you'll have to send in your Wii for cleaning when WiiFit comes out? And it sucks that you need the hard drive to play online with any 360 games instead of just Burnout Paradise...
J.Goodwin @ May 19th 2008 2:24PM
Cellien,
Flip over the disks, most PS3 games are BD9s. It's a dual layer DVD with Blu-ray file system. The issue isn't the media per se, it's the slowness of the drive itself. You're really never going to get more than the transfer rate of about a 6x DVD drive.
50 Gigs, not necessary for HD gaming (well, maybe for Final Fantasy or MGS, which which are more along the lines of HD watching than gaming). High transfer rates to get textures and models into your video chip (or, the ability to create models and textures on the fly, like the 360's Xenon or the advanced techniques that Sony showed off where they were using the SPUs as video coprocessors to do clipping etc) IS.
Huey2k2 @ May 19th 2008 2:42PM
"And it sucks that you need the hard drive to play online with any 360 games instead of just Burnout Paradise..."
First of all, you don't need an HD for live, only a memory card (although why you would have live without an HD is beyond me) except of course for Burnout Paradise where an HD is required.
Second of all, at least I can get buy just fine with the 20gig HD that comes with my 360 instead of having to spend another ~$100 on a bigger HD just to be able to play all my games because half of them have a mandatory install.
lee @ May 19th 2008 2:49PM
wow and i seriously thought the 4 gb installations were for just cross-platform games. didnt they say that because they build the game on an xbox, but the reading speed isnt fast enough to sort of directly transfer the game to bluray.
i think this is a sign it might becoming to 360? its not all that graphically amazing. i bet it will.
Pro-Truth League @ May 19th 2008 2:51PM
Well.. IMO, the 20GBer is the best deal right now.
If you buy one on ebay, you can get one for $250-300.
Then you can buy a large HDD very cheap elsewhere, and it'll still be cheaper than a premium 360, let alone an elite 360.
and all you really lose that MIGHT be important is Wifi? Who cares!
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ May 19th 2008 3:54PM
Huey2k2... you know, you don't have to JUMP at everything. In case you missed it, that was a troll trap you walked blissfully unaware and into.
My statement was about the people using the 20 minute install standard as a complaint when, aside from DMC4 and Lost Planet, no game installs have gone that long. Hell, even launch titles like Ridge Racer 7 and Gundam with optional installs of 5+ GBs each were both done in around 8. In essence, the OP uses the worst case scenario as the only scenario.
Just as the SSBB dual layer fiasco was extended to WiiFit through my sarcastic rant and the Burnout Paradise required hard drive requirement extended to all games. In other words, I pointed out ignorance by doing the same to the other consoles whereas intelligent people saw that and thought "nu uh" and they would be correct. Just as PS3 owners would see the 20 minute install rant and think "nu uh."
To All, yes, I understand your disappointment. It can be quite vexing. Unless, of course, you consider the fact that most PS3 hardcore gamertypes are buying the high hard drives and larger hard drives can be purchased... well, anywhere.
But I suppose the largest insult to us gamers is how ~25 games of 140 suddenly becomes a majority to the trolls. Or how some people believe that when you uninstall a game from the PS3 you somehow lose your game saves for the title despite those being completely removed from the install data and completely savable even as you uninstall games. Or how difficult it must be to install a hard drive on PS3. What with the whole placing it in the bay and powering on and watching the system autoformat to PS3 specs.
But that's the issue. Majority of the rants or hatred towards the system is based on half-truths, selective facts, and blatant ignorance as a whole towards the console. And why learn, people? It's hard, makes your head hurt, and removes 98% of your console warrior ammo and majority of you flacid little monsters would hate to shoot blanks in both real and virtual life.
NotNormal23224 @ May 19th 2008 7:20PM
For all the people making comments about the 20GB and 40GB PS3s, newsflash the drive can be replaced by any generic 2.5 SATA drive. My 20GB PS3 has had a 120GB drive in it from day one. Also the drive swap doesn't void warranty either it was on page 8 of the manual on how to do it.
AK @ May 19th 2008 7:27PM
"In case you missed it, that was a troll trap you walked blissfully unaware and into."
A "troll trap"?
This isn't dungeons and dragons, jackass.
Akin @ May 20th 2008 11:54AM
ummm my 20Gig is now a 160Gig with full B/C and a cool all black finish. And its never broke and its quiet. i'm very happy with it.
Chameleon @ May 21st 2008 12:41PM
no offense meant, but would setting a 'troll trap' make one a troll ....
Esat Dedezade @ May 19th 2008 12:35PM
I'm going to go ahead and assume that this information is going to do this game no favours whatsoever.
On an unrelated note, the sky is blue, grass grows and Lucky Charms will never come back to the UK :(
DangerMouse @ May 19th 2008 12:40PM
The way the game has been hyped up, it shouldn't need any special favors.
Noshino @ May 19th 2008 12:40PM
http://www.cybercandy.co.uk/aaasmt/index.php/url_pmet3/xdbc_lucky/dbtc_1/pic_0/add_custsearch/stc_0/scope_short
ssuk @ May 19th 2008 12:56PM
So the game isn't 'true' HD. Hardly any AAA games are, the picture is upscaled and a normal end user wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a HD game and a 'non'-HD game. They WOULD be able to tell the difference between a smooth frame rate and a jumpy one.
Bit more concerned that one of the AAA titles which the PS3 has been able to hold on to exclusivity for can't handle HD visuals at a smooth frame rate. But we're still early into the PS3 generation of games, newer games from here on in should be getting closer to 'true' HD visuals. So fanboys on both sides can hardly start firing their mouths off just yet. (Although, that wont stop them.)
tcc3 @ May 19th 2008 1:12PM
No Lucky Charms in the UK? Say it aint so!
My heart (stars, diamonds, horseshoes, etc) goes out to you.
faded515 @ May 19th 2008 1:43PM
You can get Lucky Charms in the UK but it's about £7 a box.
Bloo @ May 19th 2008 12:39PM
For a company that constantly advertises 1080p gaming this is ridiculous. I mean, only a tiny fraction of the games actually run at true 1080p. Keep in mind, I don't care as many titles look awesome like Ratchet and Uncharted. It's just irritating. They would be better off to advertise the better sound you get which is actually implemented in many of the games!
Colin @ May 19th 2008 12:48PM
Haven't you heard, the vast majority of people don't care about sound. I worked in the audio/video industry for three years, and not many people actually care about real sound quality anymore. It's just about more speakers (even if they're really shitty), which will never give you better sound than fewer good speakers, and its about convenience, aka, mp3 players. Shit, just the mp3 format should be an indication of how much people care about audio quality... Sony was smart to push 1080p, as it did wonders for their TV division... Plus, most folks are not going to know if the games don't run in 1080p.
Bloo @ May 19th 2008 12:54PM
7.1 THX Ultra certified Jamo and AVR-4808 say I care about sound! Uncharted was an amazing sounding game! I'm hoping the sound in MGS4 makes up for diaper wearing soda drinking monkeys, farting cow robots, and rolling people over in a metal drum you just pulled out of your ass! :p
ssuk @ May 19th 2008 1:00PM
Colin: My iriver E100 and FLAC playback support hears you out. (Pun most definitely intended) It's a shame that audio quality isn't really on everyone's mind as much as visual quality. But the audio industry hasn't really slowed because of it, so there's no real problem... Yet.
Kael @ May 19th 2008 2:25PM
I still find it strange that developers get to cheat like this. When they set out to make a game for these consoles, they should know what minimum resolution to run it at. If, close to the end of the project, they find the frame-rate is a little low, they take the easy way out and just lower the resolution to compensate. I know it's sometimes a matter of personal preference between more shaders or effects and a higher resolution, but when I buy an expensive HDTV with the express purpose of playing these HD games in HD only to find they're just marginally higher res than standard definition, I feel a little ripped off.
I'd ask that every console developer implement what PC games have always offered: customizable graphics options. Even just three settings; 480, 720, and 1080, with in-game effects tuned for each setting to maintain an acceptable frame-rate, would be nice, and I'd be able to get the sharpness I bought the TV for if I chose to.
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ May 19th 2008 6:54PM
Kael, Gametrailers can't even set their PS3 correctly yet. You think giving that many options to the average user would be a good idea? Everyone would turn everything on and bitch about performance and how so many games suck. Frankly, I'm more appauled that Gamma settings aren't standard in games yet. Like on my TV, the gamma Wii puts out, especially on launch games, is set way too low. Now, most other consoles that's not an issue. But the main reason why I never finished Twilight Princess is because I find it pretty damn unforgivable Nintendo gives me a test pattern to adjust my TV to, which in turns fucks up my visuals on everything else.
Burnt Meatloaf @ May 20th 2008 7:40AM
As an audiophile, I agree with you, Bloo.
The trouble is, many people I've met don't even know what normalization is. Also, how about those kooks that and actually think analog sounds better than digital because analog is "louder" (the real problem is that 99.9% of people don't know what a compressor does).
Sound is as much of a lost art as resisting the urge to use normal maps on individual blades of grass. No matter how powerful the hardware is, you have to know how to use it, and used some damned sense.
A 4GB install for near SD-graphics? Yeah, that shows what their priorities are.
Alex @ May 21st 2008 2:44PM
Colin, I like my sounds.
42" HD TV in the dark with loud LG 5.1 speakers and Condemned. (God forbid, NOT Condemned 2)
That is the way to live.
Mike @ May 19th 2008 12:42PM
4GB install huh? My older brother and I were planning on buying 2 copies so we could play online co-op. =\
I just changed my mind after hearing that 4GB install BS. I've only got 9GB left on my 60GB PS3. This mandatory installation crap is killing me
Does anybody know what's the word with Singstar for Tuesday? Any reviews up yet? Very little buzz for this title...I'll go pick that up for my girl and I instead.
creid @ May 19th 2008 12:47PM
You can upgrade your HD pretty cheaply, you know.
Mike @ May 19th 2008 12:53PM
Man, cut the crap with that whole upgrading BS!!! You think i want to spend an extra $150 after paying $600 for my PS3? BUT I DON'T!
Don't make me laugh dude!!!
I can buy 3 extra games with that $150...It's not like sony has a movie rental service for the PS3 or something like itunes.
So you're telling me to buy a ($600 before taxes). Then spend an extra $150 so I can enjoy the non 1080p HD games? LOL
I'm a big sony fan but this is really getting out of hand. They are always promoting stuff that they don't really have.
protos28 @ May 19th 2008 1:05PM
At least the option is there to upgrade. You can have no HDD like the wii or spend twice as much for a special microsoft hdd for the 360.
xFenixKnightx @ May 19th 2008 1:22PM
Sony fanboy sais...
Having to buy a HDD (easily find a used one for $50-$60 lik emy buddy did)for a 279.00 system with NO mandatory installs BLOWS, and blah blah blah!!!
Upgrading a $399, $499 or even $599 system because of installs and what not, no biggie?
WTF?
I gotta 40 gigger, the only thing I can think of is that there aren't that many games I'll be buying for it anyway so I'm not too worried about it. 4geebeez for barely above SD game blows IMO.
deaftly @ May 19th 2008 1:26PM
It's still bullshit, when the ps3 was announced, game dev'd never said you'd have to install games for them to run. People like me that bought the 40 gig are going to be shit out of luck if you don't upgrade the HDD. BULLSHIT.
miyagi @ May 19th 2008 1:28PM
@protos
Yes, but I've barely used half of the 20gig X360 hard drive it has now. So I don't need to buy Microsoft's overpriced HD's.
For both my systems I only use them for games.
I also have a 60gig PS3 and have already used over half of it's available space. I own about 1/3rd of the games I have for my 360. Sure the option is there to upgrade or to delete the data but the first option is even more money for an already expensive system. The second option is inconvenient as well because I tend to grow a rather large catalog of games for my systems. Sony's offerings are still small but what happens down the road when more and more great games come out that need the installation. I don't want to have to delete/reinstall data every time I go back and play a game.
DeadPlasmaCell @ May 19th 2008 2:52PM
Mike, I know what you mean about having to spend extra.. I feel the same way about the Wii (Which I'm selling on eBay right now) but upgrading your PS3 HDD really is pretty cheap.. I got a 160GB HDD for my PS3 for $65 @ Newegg (It's still $65). Installation is super easy and Sony even gives you instructions on how to do it in the owners manual.
Burnt Meatloaf @ May 20th 2008 8:11AM
@Miyagi: Damn Microsoft and their size caps!
born2kill @ May 19th 2008 12:42PM
4 gigs?? Phony HD?? No thanks. Maybe a rental later on. Get your crap together Radicals. Theres no reason why we can't have top of the line visuals, good frame rate, and not have to fork over a chuck of hard drive space. Figure it out aholes. Until then, my 60 dollars I shall keep
Colin @ May 19th 2008 12:54PM
Last I checked, none of those things amount to jack if the game is good. Also, they have a lower resolution TO make the frame rate better... Why are you complaining about a game taking up HDD space on your GAME CONSOLE? Bitch all you want if the game sucks, but dont be so petty...
Mike @ May 19th 2008 12:54PM
AAAHHHMEN!!!
born2kill @ May 19th 2008 1:32PM
Look, i'm sure the game will be good and i'm not bitching about that. But we've all spent alot of money on our HDTVs (1300$ on mines) and this phoney HD stuff is just bullshit. If frame rate was going to be a problem (which i'm not really believing) then they shouldve made the PS3 more powerful. And this 4 gig installation dump is just ridiculous. I buy games on a regular basis and this is going to become a hassle pretty soon, so I'd rather they figure something else out. I'm not bitching, but i'm just saying as a matter of fact, they are not getting my 60$ until they figure this crap out. I'm not going to just bite my toungue and let this become the norm. I like Sony a whole lot, but I have a 360 too and i really, really dont need this shit.
ill trooper @ May 19th 2008 2:32PM
born2kill: None of the reasons you mentioned have anything to do with whether the game is fun or not. Typical post from someone who never was going to buy Haze anyway.
born2kill @ May 19th 2008 3:09PM
FYI, I was honestly considering buying Haze. I was actually watching some vids on youtube last night and reading up on the nectar stuff on gamespot. I didnt have a preorder or anything but I pop into game stores on a regular basis and theres a 50-50 chance I wouldve grabbed it. I just finished Condenmed 2 and i'm burnt out on GTA,, so yea its very probable that I'd have thrown down 60$ on this...but not now. I dont want to support this trend of faux HD and 4 gig dumps. So its just a rental for me, later when I get a new membership to gamefly or something