XNA Community Games go 'Live' for indie devs

by Randy Nelson { May 20th 2008 at 9:30PM }

Microsoft has taken the next big step towards its goal of bringing user-created games to Xbox Live Arcade. The software behemoth today hung out an "open" sign on its Community Games for Xbox Live beta, allowing small developers enrolled in the XNA Creators Club to share, review, and download each others' games via Xbox Live Arcade.

Currently, only Creators Club members with "Premium" accounts -- which cost $99 a year -- can access the service, but MS plans to make top-voted Community games available for download by John Q. Public in the fall.

The Creators Club and Community games are the next stage of Microsoft's XNA initiative, which saw the introduction of XNA Game Studio 2.0 -- a suite of tools for creating Xbox 360 and Windows games -- earlier this year. The free software package is intended to simplify the development process and encourage upstarts to make Xbox 360 their platform of choice. It includes a variety of tutorials and samples, which MS added to today with the introduction of a free Role-Playing Game Starter Kit.

News of today's beta launch comes in the wake of our earlier post on MS's intention to "leapfrog" PSN and WiiWare with the help of indie developers.

Tags: indie, microsoft, xbla, xbox-360, xbox-live, xna, xna-game-studio

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Arttemis @ May 20th 2008 9:41PM

So when can I buy Dishwasher!?

Arttemis @ May 20th 2008 9:43PM

Nevermind. I assume it's in the fall.

Extinction @ May 20th 2008 9:42PM

How does this leapfrog PS3? Homebrew on PS3 is free via Linux, Java, Javascript and Adobe Flash. And has no space limitations. At the very least, Java and Flash are better than XNA simply due to how many people know how to code in them, and have.

Moorio - XBL: peacebyanymeans @ May 20th 2008 9:43PM

So I have to install Linux on my PS3 to play community games.

Fail.

ScottyGEE @ May 20th 2008 9:57PM

Sorry that is pretty shitty.

LameDuck @ May 20th 2008 10:26PM

Lets see...

PS3: An "open" platform where I am expected to talk the user into installing Linux, flash, and java THEN install my game. With this option I get NO hardware support, no software support, and no access to the important bits of the hardware. *ie: video card, sound processor, full cell usage.*

or...

360: I pay $100 to be able to develope games with MS and community support for hardware, software, and programming. I have full access to the videocard, sound processing, and CPU. I can easly make the next 3D version of Duke Nukum.

Hmm... Oh yes, PS3 HAS to be the better choice here. I mean, we need more shitty flash games, amirite guyz?

untitled @ May 20th 2008 11:23PM

Wait. Did he just compare XNA to Adobe Flash?

Tiptup300 @ May 20th 2008 11:19PM

Hmmm,

PS3
- You have a vast amount of memory available after linux takes it chunk of it, what about 18 megs?
- No hardware support, you'll get the graphics of a nice Playstation 1
- Complicated Linux install

Xbox 360
- Plenty of memory
- FULL hardware support
- (Soon-to-be) free in the dashboard to download community games.

Yeah, the ps3 sure has the edge here!

the_insider @ May 20th 2008 11:29PM

XNA allows you to program in C# (and probably other C variants) which is a lot more powerful than Java or Flash and there are easily just as many people that can understand and program C# as there are for Java and Flash. Why would you want to make a Flash game anyway if you have a cutting edge console to mess with! =)

Pureshooter @ May 21st 2008 10:14AM

Finish him!!! Finish hiiiiim!!!

Farseer (GDI) @ May 21st 2008 12:29PM

Holy shit, what a beatdown.

Darth Abe @ May 21st 2008 6:08PM

wow Extinction (who obviously doesn't know the first thing about software/game development) got owned pretty damn hard. I'd be surprised if he posts under that name again.

Extinction @ May 22nd 2008 10:06AM

"wow Extinction (who obviously doesn't know the first thing about software/game development"

Actually I know more than any of you guys. XNA does not have full hardware support, you dont have ethernet access for example. You also only have access to one cpu core

Yes I know you have to install linux, but it doesnt cost $99 a year. Free wins over $99 a year. And Lameduck, you get more hardware access in ps3 linux than in xna on 360. Linux has access to everything except the gpu. Yes, that means you do have full cell and sound access.

Flash was compared to xna cause they both are interpreted code

Also, PS3 linux doesnt leave 18 megs, it leaves far more than that and you have access to virtual memory. All in all every one of your replies was utter garbage.

XNA is inferior to every offering on PS3 simple due to the cost which will horribly limit the amount of development it receives.

LameDuck @ May 26th 2008 12:39PM

I know your last comment was 3 days ago, but I have to comment.

el oh el

Enjoy your shitty flash games while I play my fully 3D community games on my 360. Also, you DO NOT get full CUP, GPU, or sound support. Go look up some info about Linux on the PS3. By default, Linux will not give you full access to the CPU. Games will run like shit with no 3D or 2D excel, and basic stereo isn't a bother, but if you plan on using the sound processor todo some fancy sound mods, you be hurtin' yo.

But hey, you clearly know what the consumer wants. A hard to install, half supported, slapped on "feature" over a fully supported, fully documented, and dev drivin' community/programming platform.

Now, if Linux had fully CPU, GPU, and sound support, I would agree with you, but I don't. You can keep your shitty flash games.

Extinction @ May 26th 2008 8:14PM

" Also, you DO NOT get full CUP, GPU, or sound support. Go look up some info about Linux on the PS3"

Yes you do. You full access to all hardware except the GPU. Sound is done by the CPU. And when you boot up Linux on a PS3, the top 1/3 of the screen is devoted to showing you have access to both cores of the PPC, and 6 SPUs. Check your facts, I told you before, I'm telling you again. You have full CPU and sound access on PS3 Linux. Why do you think there are so many stories of people using PS3s as supercomputers? You wouldn't have that with partial CPU access.

"But hey, you clearly know what the consumer wants. A hard to install, half supported, slapped on "feature" over a fully supported, fully documented, and dev drivin' community/programming platform."

The consumer wants free. $99 a year is not what homebrewers want. They don't want to lose their access once MS moves on to the next system. PS3s Linux is not half supported nor slapped on. It is fully documented and has FAR more developer support than XNA. Hell, XNA games can actually be run on PS3 Linux.

Linux on PS3 is easy to install. You go to Settings, Install other OS, click Ok twice and wait. It's easier than installing XP.

As I said before, none of you guys have a damned clue.

LameDuck @ May 26th 2008 10:20PM

CPU: You can do what the hypervisor and Linux lets you. You do not have full access to the hardware by default. You can use some of the cores and write small programs for it, but you don't have full support like you would with a native PS3 game.

Sound: I don't know if it's a chip or the Cell. I'm guessing it's the hypervisor handling it since I checked my install and it gives me a generic name point to a non-hardware s-link. Still, try pulling 7.1 from it. I bet you can't. I know I couldn't with a simple test that works on 7.1 Soundblaster cards. *HINT: Set aplay to only the channel you want the sound to come from.*

Conclusion: You have all this power and nothing todo with it. You can make a flash game, but WHY use Linux for that? Anyway, I think we call all agree that 99.9% of flash games are of the shit verity. You can do a 2D game, but even the 2D is limited on this. I think it was 5 concurrent sprites before I started seeing tearing.

Community games is made to sell games by indie devs. It isn't made to give away games. It isn't made for homebrew. Homebrew on the PS3 is shit, just like the 360. This is a legal, cheap way for people to release games and make money for themselves. While you will be playing "Bucky's 2D carrot adventure: Flash Version" for free after installing a 3 gig OS, I'll be playing Audiosurf that I bought from Community Games for 5 bux after finding it for free under the Community games menu. It only cost 100 bux a month to make a game, not buy them. I've had XNA since the day they started taking orders and I love it. I've tried programming for the PS3 under Linux and it's shit. It's not Linux's fault eather, it's PS3 and their "open" platform. Damn, that GSX is REALLY fucking open, isn't it? Retard.

P.S. Oh, btw... STOP CONFUSING CONSUMERS AND DEVS! Know the difference. One produces, one consumes. Get it right, jackass.

ajmiles @ May 27th 2008 8:53AM

"You also only have access to one cpu core"

Wrong, you get access to all 3.

"you dont have ethernet access for example"

You don't get raw access to connect to whatever you want, instead you get Xbox Live support for up to 31 players.

"Flash was compared to xna cause they both are interpreted code"

Wrong again, C# is not interpreted.

Extinction @ May 27th 2008 10:41PM

"CPU: You can do what the hypervisor and Linux lets you. You do not have full access to the hardware by default. You can use some of the cores and write small programs for it, but you don't have full support like you would with a native PS3 game."

False, you have FULL access to everything except the RSX. As I said, booting linux will show the top third of the screen showing you have access to 2 ppu cores and 6 spus. You claimto be running linux yet you dont know this. Look up what the 2 big penguins and the 6 little ones are.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/archive/index.php/t-38674.html
We have OpenGL support on PS3 Linux it's just not hardware accelerated. Someone got got Quake3 running with the software GL renderer pretty easily.

You have access to 6 SPEs in Linux on PS3.
There are 6 full SPEs available under Linux. It's only the 7th that is reserved.

http://www.t2-project.org/hardware/console/Sony/PS3/
1 dual-core Power Processor Element (PPE)
7 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPE) (one consumed by the hypervisor)
256 6MB system RAM and 256 MB video RAM
NVidia RSX video processor (not yet available to Linux)
Blue-Ray / DVD drive
20-80 GB hard-disk
Gigabit Ethernet
USB 2.0
Bluetooth
Wi-Fi (rumored to work with latest Linux patches)

There is no such thing as GSX. And even if 99% of flash games are crap, the 1% is still more than xna will ever have.

And the $99 a year is to make games, as Ive said. Problem is that severely limits the amount of developers it will have.

"P.S. Oh, btw... STOP CONFUSING CONSUMERS AND DEVS! Know the difference. One produces, one consumes. Get it right, jackass."

And consumers need the producers. No producers, no content. Linux will always have more content, thus its better for consumers.

And coding for linux is easy if you're not a retard. And no, xna has access to only one core

ajmiles @ May 28th 2008 7:09AM

Once again, XNA has access to all 3 cores, I would have thought you'd have taken the time to research it after I told you you were wrong. Better luck next time.

Extinction @ May 28th 2008 11:10AM

1) I did research it. XNA only has access to one core, and it's interpreted code. MS even went out of their way to say so when they insulted Unreal on PS3 for having user-created mods.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=131505&page=2

That's really where we've got stuck - making sure that nothing will hurt the user's system, and I'm a little disturbed when I think about other systems and people using what we call native code - code that goes right down to the metal - and then allowing people to run script mods on top of that without the right security measures. It could be really dangerous.

We've drawn a hard line because we very much care about security, and it seems like some other platforms don't seem to care quite as much. That kind of worries me for consumers. But all I can control is what we do on our platform, so that's where I'm going to focus - we're going to keep you safe because that's really important to us.

Eurogamer: So not even needing to read between the lines, you're saying that there's a potential risk to consumers of PS3?

Chris Satchell: I think there's a potential risk on any platform where you're allowing...where you're running in what we call native mode, where you're writing straight to the metal, not a sandbox layer like XNA, and then that runs ----a script engine--- and you let people do that in that script engine.

A script engine would not use more than one core, you can't write multi-cored scripts.

2) I said PS3:Linux had full cell access and you two did no research in correcting yourselves, so don't even talk

Again, you guys have no clue. Linux on PS3 is better for consumers. You're given far more freedom, and no cost. Get over it. Gees, you'll never see a SNES emulator on XNA for example, yet Linux has a hundred available.

ajmiles @ May 29th 2008 5:22AM

1) You clearly didn't research it, because you're still wrong. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.xna.net_cf.system.threading.thread.setprocessoraffinity.aspx

3 Cores, 2 hardware threads on each. 1 hardware thread on cores 0 and 1 are reserved, but there is 1 hardware thread on cores 0 and 1 free, 2 hardware threads free on core 2. Meaning that you have access to ALL 3 cores, not 1 as you've wrongly suggested numerous times.

2) Chris Satchell's quote about the scripting engine is not referring to XNA. XNA is not a scripting engine at all, he was probably referring to the Unreal Engine scripting engine. Find me a reputable links (or 3) confirming that XNA is a scripting engine and I still won't believe it, I've been using it for 2 years and I know what it isn't.

While you're at it, show me your research for XNA using only one core... something more credible that the actual XNA documentation that says you have access to all 3...

Extinction @ May 29th 2008 6:41PM

"You clearly didn't research it,"

Actually I did. I even posted my research. A quote from the guy who leads MS's XNA team. And yes he is speaking about XNA. It even says so in the article. Do I get to claim you did no research at all for not reading it?

What you should have said was "that doesn't prove it's only 1 thread". And you'd be right. However I still proved it's interpreted code.

ajmiles @ May 30th 2008 6:37AM

Unfortunately (as with "It's only 1 core!") the number of times you repeat a claim doesn't make it any more true. C# is compiled into native code on the fly, it is not interpreted. This actually has some advantages over pre-compiled native code and is a world apart from what you're claiming.

Take a read of: http://blogs.msdn.com/netcfteam/archive/2006/12/22/managed-code-performance-on-xbox-360-for-the-xna-framework-1-0.aspx and the associated links, and once again, C# is not interpreted, and it is not a scripting engine. Even if that guy from Microsoft was claiming it was (which he wasn't), it doesn't change the fact that it isn't. Compiled JIT (Just-In-Time) code is not interpreted... I'm not sure how many other ways there are of saying it.