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Reader Comments (81)

Posted: May 28th 2008 9:33PM AUserName said

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@Mr. Wong: And? They got six extra months and it still only looked barely better. I would be on your side if, in six months, the did more like add multiplayer or better weather/lighting/whatever. Instead, they took six months and made the graphics look only a little better.

Call me a tard but game-play>graphics. But then again this is Joystiq, It's the "OHHH!!!! SHINY OBJECT!!!!" crowd. Hey look! A fake story about how Crysis is coming out on the PS3 with better graphics! *runs in the opposite direction* MWahahahahahaahahahahaaha
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Posted: May 28th 2008 11:12PM spin cycle said

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Hahah. You want a platform porting team to add multiplayer?

I want a pony.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:07PM (Unverified) said

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Surely this sort of thing is becoming a big issue for 20GB and 40GB SKU owners?

I know, I know "buy a cheap HDD and install it yourself... blah blah... it's easy". That however is not the point. We shouldn't HAVE to manually install our own hard drives. What we should be able to do is play games on our systems and have plenty of space for all the multimedia functions Sony throws in our faces.

(That said, I don't own a PS3, but I still think it's an awful problem. What with the much-celebrated 10 year lifecycle, it can only become more and more of an issue.)

Posted: May 28th 2008 3:11PM LaughingTarget said

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A game console is meant to be able to run everything out of the box without modification or additional accessories to operate as intended. Needing to go out and purchase an entire hard drive, driving up the already high cost further, defeats the purpose of a console. Instead of a console, the PS3 is a gimped PC.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:14PM (Unverified) said

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Actually with a 10 year life cycle that wont be a problem at all....think of it, will you be playing the same games 5 years from now? or even 2 years from now? Then why would you keep that install data on your drive, just delete it and be done with it.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:21PM Vidikron said

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I suppose it could be an issue for some people... especially those 20 GB owners. You always have the option to delete data for previous games. Yes, that means you'll have to reinstall the data if you go back and play that game, but you aren't forced to go out and buy a new hard drive if you don't want to. And, honestly, I'd wager that most people have multiple games they haven't played in months on their shelves. So far I haven't really seen that many people complaining about having to delete and reinstall data. Mostly it's just people who don't eve own the system making the gripes.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:23PM (Unverified) said

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I know plenty of people who play older games on their systems.

So in 5 years time you're sitting there thinking "I want to give MGS4 another spin". You rummage around for your special edition case, and trembling with nostalgic excitement you carefully slip the disc into your PS3. You slide over to the game tab, and fire the baby up. Nearly there but, oh noez!

"PRESS X TO BEGIN 4.5 GB MANDATORY INSTALL - APPROX 20 MINUTES".

Now that may be shorter than any of the game's cutscenes, but it's definitely a moment-killer.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:28PM Vidikron said

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Of course people play their older games. My point was that a lot of times people may not touch certain games for months or more. I mean, seriously, if I haven't played a game in 5 years as in your example, it's really not going to be a big deal to wait another 20 minutes to install the data again.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:28PM LaughingTarget said

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It is a problem because it removes a major feature that makes console gaming more enjoyable than PC gaming, no hassles. Just plug and play.

As it stands, you can upgrade a PC you already need for productive actions for the same amount you can spend on a PS3 and have more attractive games, vastly superior online and REAL multimedia capabilities and higher resolutions than any HDTV on the market can produce. What exactly is the draw at this point?
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:36PM Vidikron said

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LT,

You most get of that with or without installs, so what exactly is your point? If you want to game a PC, go ahead. There's much more to the issue whether you game on PC or console than simple tech specs. Also, you act like you're having to sit there and click "Next", "I Agree", "Typical or Custom Install", *select install directorty*, etc... It's nothing like installing on PCs. You have HIGHLY over simplified your comparison with PC gaming. Come back with a valid comparison.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 6:05PM LaughingTarget said

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Sorry, but 23 minutes to install 4.5 gigabytes is ridiculous, even when considering PC standards. You could get 17 gigabytes down on a PC in that timeframe. The install didn't save 23 minutes of time when comparing the total load times of the PS3 and 360 versions of DMC4. If two players of completely equal ability dropped the disk into their respective consoles at the same time, they'd both finish the game at roughly the same time. Only one got to start earlier. This is just a poor method of making up for a serious design flaw that didn't exist before.

This entire scenario could have been avoided had Sony just left a DVD drive in the PS3 until BluRay matured to a point where it could compete with DVD in total performance times. Installs in a console is the epitome of retarded. The only thing BluRay brought to this generation is the ability to play 1080p movies. Most of that space is wasted on redundant data (eliminating the BluRay space advantage) and install times that should not exist in this environment.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 6:11PM Vidikron said

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I don't care. You do. There you go.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 7:11PM SheppyReturns said

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Benny, Laughing Target, you do have a point about the installs being a definate mood killer but I'm afraid I must simply throw this in.

Capcom's install times are the exception, not the rule. Ridge Racer 7 was 5 GBs and it installed in under 5 minutes. Virtua Fighter 5 was 2.7GB and it was installed in under 5 minutes. In fact, aside from DMC4 and Lost Planet, I don't know of any install times that took over 20 minutes. And no, HSG5 was 7.5 minutes.

These 20 minute installs are invalid in many arguements when they are made because, simply put, they are the worst case scenario by a LARGE margin.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:21PM (Unverified) said

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Funnily enough, load times on say the 95% other games on the PS3 are no worse than the 360 with no or minimal install. So does anyone here who claims that Blu-ray is too slow have any explanation as to why that is so?
But I suppose these are the same guys who claimed that the PS3 has less RAM or that the SPEs are no good for game coding, but somehow have no explanation for the fact that Uncharted, Ratchet and GT5-P blow every 360 game out of the water in terms of graphics.

So far, how many games have actually required install on the PS3? From the top of my mind:
DMC 4
MGS 4
Hot Shots Golf
GTA4
Haze
GT5-P

So, you stand a chance of running out of say 2/3rds of the space on your 40GB PS3 if you have 1) bought all these 2) are playing all of these at the same time. What are the chances of that?

Lets get this straight - mandatory installs are because of poor developers, and nobody wants a case where every other game needs an install and its not needed in the first place - thats something game developers must realise soon. This has nothing to do with the PS3 - the Blu-ray ensures MGS4 is not on 7 discs, and the hard drive ensures you dont have the "elevators" of mass effect.

Posted: May 28th 2008 3:53PM Pojomofo said

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most games that I have played do have the install, I can add Assassins creed, COD4, and Orange Box to that list.

that said, I agree with every point you made
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Posted: May 28th 2008 4:44PM (Unverified) said

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All of the games that require hdd installs are new...are you seeing a trend here?
It has to be something more than lazy developers, since it is happening between developers, including basically 1st party devs.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:25PM LaughingTarget said

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BluRay is the problem. The seek times are the same as the DVD, which means it takes 5 times longer to find anything. 5 times the data to dig through, same seek times, bad combination.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:38PM LaughingTarget said

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Sorry, need to adjust the comment.

BluRay seek times: 350ms
DVD 12x seek times: 130ms

DVD 12x is 2.6 times faster at finding data and, due to the nature of a DVD's data concentration (More surface area in faster parts of the DVD than the slower area means more data moves faster than slower), runs at an average of 100mb/s vs the BluRay 72 mb/s, we see the necessity to rely on installs when dealing with a full BluRay.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:46PM Vidikron said

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For the record, the 360's DVD drive operates at 8x for dual layer discs... which is most of them.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:59PM LaughingTarget said

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The average dual layer read times for typical 12x DVD drives in 2004 outperform current BluRay drives. The Pioneer drive runs at 9.4 gigabytes per second vs 8 for BluRay when not using a highly simplistic averaging method between min and max. That was 4 years ago.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 8:17PM spin cycle said

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You speak of 12X DVD seek times as if all drives seeked at the same rate. It's not the case. What is the 360's seek time at 12X? What is it at the lower speeds the drive often runs at to be quieter?
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Posted: May 28th 2008 8:20PM spin cycle said

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LaughingTarget:
You just said 12X DVD drives read data at 9 GIGAbytes per second. That would mean it would take 1 second to read out the whole disc. Do you wish to revise this to be correct?

Also note that most drives go slower then reading dual-layer DVDs. Many drives will not read dual-layer discs at higher than 8X, including 16X and 20X DVD drives.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 3:27PM Vidikron said

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Of course people play their older games. My point was that a lot of times people may not touch certain games for months or more. I mean, seriously, if I haven't played a game in 5 years as in your example, it's really not going to be a big deal to wait another 20 minutes to install the data again.

Posted: May 28th 2008 4:27PM (Unverified) said

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Exactly!

People are not exactly pack rats when it comes to their hard drives. The minute I finished playing DMC4 I deleted the install data, if I every want to play it again, Ill just install it again no biggie.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 5:34PM psychoticdream said

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i dont mind hard drive installs if it makes the game run smoother hell by all means go ahead i have a lot of patience, but i'm looking forward to high capacity solid state disk drives i can put in the ps3....

Posted: May 28th 2008 5:53PM Mr Slayer said

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Am I the only one that doesn't care about mandatory installs? Is it really that big a deal?

Posted: May 28th 2008 6:03PM Vidikron said

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Most of us PS3 owners don't actually care that much if at all. It's mostly the people that don't even own the system that make a big deal out of it.

Personally, if I could be allowed to do a complete install and not have to put in the disc I'd actually like to do that. Otherwise, yeah, I'd prefer not having to do a mandatory install, but having to do them isn't a big deal to me.
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Posted: May 28th 2008 6:17PM (Unverified) said

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The thing about mandatory installs is that it basically removes the purpose of bluray.

Talking about how little room is on a DVD seems hilarious when confronted with mandatory installs. Sony could've stuck with the cheaper DVDs and games would just have an install disc and a play disc.

Posted: May 28th 2008 9:04PM (Unverified) said

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I have been wanting to get the 2nd one for PC and I found out here (http://www.expotv.com/Fallout-1-Fallout-2-Bundle-Jewel-Case/38-16Bg) that there is a version that has both the first one and the second one both in the same package. Is it worth getting that to play both of them before the third comes out?

Posted: May 28th 2008 10:41PM drun said

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for best graphic, I'll pick the PC ver. But I think the control would be easier on console.

Posted: Jun 9th 2008 12:52PM (Unverified) said

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Oh yea such a burden that your Blu-Ray drive will do less work and last longer and need to be cleaned less. OH right a 200GB SATA150 laptop drive you can get for $60 bucks if you need more room that bad. At least your not forced to use a proprietary hard drive like on 360 that costs twice as much as a 200GB SATA150 but is smaller. Stop complaining about HD installs its better for the life of your console and makes everything load faster than any Optical medium.

And yes most game that start being developed for 360 end up either identical like Devil May Cry 4 did or the devs couldn't port the game to save their lives like with GTA4 and then ps3 people end up with a inferior product most of the time. A few ports have been better like Oblivion has way less pop ins.

As for once you buy a console you shouldn't have to shell more money into it. Lets see the 360 you need to pay for Online!!! If you want to use it wifi you have to pay $100 bucks more. If you wanted HD dvd support or the rumored blu-ray add on you have to pay $200 more. All together with the 360 base unit and its add ons that costs more than a 80GB ps3 with all that stuff included already.

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