Illegal ROMs at Wizard World? What?!

by David Hinkle on Jun 3rd 2008 12:30PM

I recently attended Wizard World Philadelphia, not because I'm a huge comic nerd or anything, but because my friends are. So, with a couple of buddies, I headed on down to the Philly Convention Center and prepared myself to be underwhelmed by the gaming action on tap and overwhelmed by the sheer amount of cosplayers there.

Imagine my surprise when I actually stumbled on something I could write about. Well, it's not something I'm actually happy to be writing about. You see, for some odd reason, a vendor was allowed to be set up on the show floor, selling CDs chock full of illegal ROMs.

As I was walking the show floor, I caught a glimpse of Contra out of the corner of my eye. I'm pretty good at doing that, actually, since Contra is pretty much super awesome. But, seriously, how does this happen?

How can they get away with this? Now, you may be asking yourself why I didn't report them or just run up to the booth with a sledge hammer and lay into everything there. Well, I'm no snitch and I personally am a big believer in karma. What these folk are doing will come back around, is my opinion. So I felt it best to just leave it at that and write a post about it once I got back to HQ.

What they had at the booth were compilation discs, sold for only about $20 a pop. Each disc contained supposed complete libraries of titles, spanning from the NES to coin-operated arcade titles. It was stunning to see these computers set up for folks to play, as well as advertisements to buy these pirated discs all over the booth. Doesn't anyone running this show have half a brain?

How would someone even be able to set up a space at the show for this? Wouldn't a show floor coordinator walk around for a last check? Wouldn't they realize how illegal it is to have hundreds of games on one CD-ROM? Like, I just can't explain to you how puzzling this whole situation is to me.

Imagine my surprise when I got home and found out not another single soul on the internet has written a thing about this. But, maybe it's a widespread practice, a kind of unspoken thing at these kinds of shows? I'm not one to usually attend these, so I figured I'd put the question to you all. Have you seen this practice at other shows or events? Your local Wizard World?

Tags: illegal-rom, illegal-roms, nes, nintendo-entertainment-system, philadelphia, piracy, rom, roms, wizard-world

Reader Comments (46)

I always see bootleg DVDs at comic conventions. A couple years ago one in the area got raided by the FBI. I advise if you see it and it bothers you to call it in.

"How can they get away with this? "

Umm, maybe because so many people were like yourself and didn't bother to report it?

Personally you're kinda straddling the fence on the issue. You're bothered enough by it to make a big post about it, but aren't bothered enough by it to do productive about it and report it to the authorities.

I remember seeing some classmates in a networking class in high school (this was in 2001) playing Punch-Out!! and some other NES titles. I told the teacher about it and he put a stop to it simply because they weren't paying attention, although I'm sure he knew about the other ramifications.

And a couple of years ago, a gaming club at the college I used to attend was also using illegal ROMs. I told them to stop or you could not only get the school in trouble, but also be stuck with a multi-million dollar legal bill and get disbanded as a result. Dunno what happened to this day.

I use to play SNES games all the time in web design class after I was done with all my work. Everyone in class had about 200+ roms. You could usually yell at somebody to setup a server so you could get some 2 player action going.

Personally, I think the whole idea of roms is pretty controversially topic among gamers (could be compared to stem cell research to relate). You can't always find a game you want at used game store or in virtual console in that matter. Plus, its great to place games you use to play when you were little. Someone might say wait for it to come out on VC, but I am a consumer, I'm impatient, I want it now!

But its sad to see someone sell someone else's property just to make a quick buck.

Dude who initailly wrote this post: are you for real? Karma? I bet after those pirates walked out of the convention floor they were hit by a car, give me a break, ITS VIDEO GAMES.

People are always posting how pirates take away from game developers and is destroyign teh gaming industry, uhh hello, have games gotten worse or better in teh past ten years, i dont think they are suffering. Every media takes a pirating hit, man i bet you they used to bootleg the bible.

Ifyou read dsfanboy as frequently as i do, take a look at the homebrew section and see the amazing things "pirates" are doing with programming adn ahving the NDS unllocked and accessable with a cart.

So even though I'm not trying to justify pirating, lets be real about thsi, its was a bad idea to let thiose guys set up, but do we ahve to be so melodramatic,

have you never bootlegged a movie, or an album by downloading it online?, well if not i guess karma is coming for me not you. lol lol lol

PS - and not to mention where the hell am i gonna find a 20 year old contra cartridge if i wanna play?

uh, eBay?

Douche.

Sounds like someone doesn't have a whole lot of experience with eBay to make that sort of comment. The scamming every so often is bad enough, but dealing with PayPal...

Yeah, ROM it is. (before you get started on Virtual Console- won't take my credit card or my prepaid points card, stupid region lock).

Whatever... however you rationalize piracy, it's still piracy.

applause @ boris

yeah i can see how buying it off ebay for 50 bucks really helps the developers! good comment! *eyeroll*

thesimplicity, you missed the point of the article, these games are so old nintendo isnt generating money form them anymore, very clever to pay another pirate on ebay for a copy.

Ever hear of the Wii's Virtual Console?

What do you mean, "another pirate on ebay"? Have you ever heard of video game collecting? Legit copies of Contra, as well as other old games, can be found there; I believe that's what thesimplicity was referring to.

Also, seconding what Dave A. said. There's plenty of money to be made from old games, and no one knows that better than Nintendo.

I wish I didn't have to have a non-Japanese Wii to get games in English. On the plus side, at least it takes JCB (don't see a whole lot of that elsewhere) credit cards.

I went to Wizard World Philly, too; it was great last year, this year not so much. In fact there was nothing left to do after spinning the Wizard Wheel and playing some Rock Band.

I saw this booth, also. Really just some ROMs put on a disc? Wow. There was another booth with people selling bootleg DVDs of movies, TV shows and anime/cartoons, along with some terrible posters of ridiculously proportioned naked women. I don't remember seeing either of those booths last year, but then I was too busy learning new board games, playing PS3 demos, and getting free stuff.

So, no, the people running Wizard World clearly don't have half a brain among them. Did they have a change of management or something? So disappointing.

I made the post because, obviously, it would generate a lot of discussion. I'm not here to tattle on anyone or even pass judgment, but mainly because it was something I knew you all would offer input on.

You make your own bed, and that's what these folks here are doing. Eventually, their actions will catch up with them. If this is the start of it, fine, but I'm not going to point my finger at someone and name them. That could ruin somebody's life. Whether or not it's deserved, I'd personally have trouble with that much responsibility on my shoulders.

so what happens if someone reads this post and points a finger and names names? would that bother you?

You mean you'd rather not ruin someone's life over a crime that doesn't hurt anyone and helps those who can't find the games?
You evil bastard!

"Snitch". "Tattle". Why are you using kindergarten terminology?

Blatantly illegal material like this hurts everyone at cons; if you let them get away with ROMs, they move in more and a wider variety of pirated stuff. Eventually, the police stop seeing these as nice little hobbyist conventions and start seeing them as venues to trade pirate goods, leading to the scenario described in McWeen's post #1. Then, everyone's enjoyment of the con is abrogated - and many folks invest a lot of money and time to travel to a con.

You could have at least given a mention of your objections to the managers of the con; that wouldn't have "ruined anyone's life". Even a quick call to the cops might have just brought a couple of officers and a "hey, what's going on here, buddy" rather than the train wreck this behavior unabated could lead to. Proactive behavior gives better results than depending on some external magical force.

To answer your question Dave, yes it is a "thing" at these conventions. Stacks of bootleg DVDs, games, hell I've seen poorly printed copies of original comics.

Ah, this post screams Diffusion of Responsibility.

I've been to lots of computer shows and conventions myself, and I can say with confidence that every single one had people selling rom-packed discs.

One vendor even tried to sell a kid and his dad a shoddy laptop that he claimed was really powerful because it could run so many games. Fortunately the father decided to "think about it", and walked off. It's a common thing.

And "karma" is tied to US copyright law I assume? If these were for sale in country where games enter the public domain after 20 years, does the seller still get struck by lightning?

SELLING illegal ROMs is egregious.

I hope someone at Nintendo reads DS Fanboy, since the post's author did NOT send an e-mail to Nintendo to let them know this is happening.

Nintendo deserves better IMO.

Shocking ...

Peace.

Exactly--they're taking advantage of people who don't know better and just want to play some old games; these people probably wouldn't even realize they're buying not only pirated property, but pirated property you can download on the internet for FREE.

Whatever your thoughts on ROMs and piracy, passing off free ROMs as legit and selling them is really low.

yeah I can kinda understand why someone would pirate some roms, old games you used to love and don't feel like paying a fortune for...but selling them for a profit thats something I really don't like....

Now, you should have called that in. That is just illegal. And sometimes, karma doesn't happen.

I would just stand there and tell people who go to the booth that they can go to this one site and download the games for free. The booth probably wouldnt get shutdown or anything, they'd just be pissed and won't be able to do anything about it. I just don't like people making money off things you can get for free, it is just stupid.
I've spoiled peoples plans to sell ROMs before, and the people i told were very pleased to download the stuff for free.
Things like this booth is what really attracts attention to people pirating video games and similiar things. So, please don't sell ROMs, you're ruining it for everyone.

I went to Wizard World LA and saw no such thing, go figure. Of course, different vendors, but still. Not sure how widespread it is.

@David Hinkle

Ever consider that you might be supposed to be the agent that this karma you babble about is enacted through?

Seriously, having it bother you enough to post so extensively about it, including pictures, but not call it in (because you're worried you might "ruin someone's life") is pretty lame.

If someone reads your post and acts on it to take action against the vendor, you're just as complicit in any result, including any karmic burden arising from "ruining" their life.

I think the most important thing missing here is that Contra is an unlockable game if you buy Contra 4 for DS. And that is how the money goes back to the developers.

Pfft... and you call yourselves DS Fanboys...

...don't know why no one brought that up

Agree'd on the making a profit off this. I mean, a burnable CD-ROM (or possibly DVD, gauging those cases), decent printing paper, ink... I doubt that that all _quite_ comes out to $20 a pop. Selling to break even, yeah, but making a profit on ROMs, that's enough to peeve someone.

Pirate games are normal on Brazil. You can't buy a PS2 game ($80) on the stores, because the brazillian salary is generally $205. You can see people selling PS2 games on the streets ($6). I have 3 original games (KH, KH2 and MGS Collection). How much do you think it cost a DS game on my country? $117 (R$200)!!! If you buy a DS from a store, the seller say: "You can buy a R4 on Mercado Livre (our ebay)" 90% of our POOR people are pirate (I download roms everyday). That's the reality of a third world country. Nobody cares about games piracy. Sorry about my bad english

It baffles me when I see Con organizers allowing booths like this (Nan Desu Kan in Denver and Mid-Ohio Con in Columbus come to mind), but my default response is to laugh smugly at the customers who don't know they're getting ripped off and could get it elsewhere for free.

lmao listening to all you guys talk about pirating like you've NEVER done it are hilarious. We all do it, whether it be Video Games, Movies, TV Shows, Software etc.

Quit trying to act like angels with a purpose.

i remember going to Kaplan computer fairs in the New England area growing up (ahh, the 90's. are those fairs still around?) and back then they had MULTIPLE vendors dishing out the illegal roms on CDs. These vendors, though, didn't just sell these discs, they sold everything (like motherboards, processors, ram, books, etc), so it wasn't really uncommon. They would also take all those shareware games you could get for free at stores, like the first chapter of doom, and cram cds FULL of them. They would sell them packaged as "2000 games for $9.99!" or something like that.

I used to sell satellite television with my father at home shows, also in the area, and every once in a while a vendor there would pop up with the same thing, NES roms, MAME roms, shareware compliations. It has always happened and I find it hard to believe that people are "shocked" that it is happening.

2 years ago at the Burbank Fangoria Horrorcon, most of the vendors sold DVDs that were bootlegs of killer (read: awesome) horror movies that you just couldn't find in america (unregionalized).

The people running the show most likely don't know what these vendors are selling, when asked, they probably say "software" and that about explains it. They get the money, the vendors move in and by the time they realize what is going on, its in the middle of the show and they could care less.

I say, lets not get bent out of shape about it because there is nothing WE can do about it, short of notifying the authorities. But at this small level of incidents, don't waste the FBI's time.

how does a game developer benefit from people buying $20 year old games on ebay or at a flea market??? The only person that benefits is the seller making some money back from the initial buy of the game. SO, what the hell is wrong with downloading ROMs? If you feel bad about doing it, dont do it, else dont tell other people how to live their lives. You may find it morally wrong to do this but I find it morally wrong for game companies to keep selling us the same game in different packages and consoles.

I was at Anime North a few weeks ago, and I know they have very clear rules against bootlegs of any kind. A game vendor was selling GBA and DS bootleg carts and was almost shut down. I almost wish he had been with some of the prices he was trying to charge. $60 for an NES, $170 for an opened (and in great, but not excellent condition) copy of FFVII, $40 for a cart only Gunstar Heroes, the list just went on and on. My point is that, whatever your views are on piracy, taking advantage of people is wrong, and needs to be stopped.

Was he selling bootleg or real copies at that price? If they were bootlegs, then whos the dopes that are spending that much money on a bootleg? Dont be mad at the guy selling them, ask the dopes why they like to waste money. If he is selling the real games for that much, then he has every right to sell it for whatever price he wants.

Jesus, has nobody here ever played a video game at all?

Lets say I want to play the original Battletoads. Here are my options, according to you people that ride in on your fanboy horses to smite down piracy:

I can wait for it to come out on Virtual Console. This is extremely unlikely for several reasons. First and foremost, it was developed by a studio formerly known as Rareware. Rareware has only been allowed to release one series of games on the VC so far, and thats because Donkey Kong has always been an official Nintendo mascot and beloved icon of video gaming. But a Battletoad? Do you really think Nintendo cares about a Battletoad? Not to mention the fact that the game wasn't exactly a smash hit - oh, it sold well, sure, but not the millions of copies that all VC games released so far have.

My other option - and this one is my favorite - is to buy it on eBay. I'm still trying to understand why you people think Nintendo makes ANY money off of eBay purchases. Lets assume for a second that you've somehow managed to not put money into the hands of a software pirate by buying a legal version of an NES game on eBay, the odds of which are nigh impossible. All you're doing is buying a pre-owned game. None of that money goes to Nintendo. At all. It's the equivalent of lending a video game to a friend after you're done with it. Your friend didn't give Nintendo a dime. Sure, you aren't hurting Nintendo by buying legit NES games off of eBay, but in that respect, you're not harming them by downloading ROMs, either.

I'll admit that its wrong to make money off of Nintendo a la the pirates at Wizard Word. But all you people trying to be the holy hand of God, defending your precious Nintendo tooth and nail and smiting down piracy with the Holy NES Controller - lighten up. Nintendo isn't going to recognize your efforts with a free special edition Wii. They don't care one bit. And neither should you.

Well said.

So companies like Konami, Midway, and Capcom don't have the right to re-release their games on new consoles? Quite a few legal compilation discs exist out there. But many companies won't bother *because* of the pirates. Why should they bother to create a project like that if pirates are going to just download the roms anyway? And as far as Battletoads goes, talk to Rare, not Nintendo.

You've got it just a little bit backwards there, buddy. Maybe if companies were more willing to give us fairly priced legal access to the classic games we want to play, piracy wouldn't run so rampant. It's already happened in the music industry - I actually did my senior thesis on that exact topic. Once companies like Amazon and Apple put together cheap, legal, functional online music stores, more people were willing to buy music. Its not that pirates are cheap bastards who want to run developers into the ground - its more often that there is no other way.

As for Battletoads (which was just a random example I chose) - you have some misconceptions about how games are released on Virtual Console. Rare can't very well just call up Nintendo and demand to release an old game on VC. Its the other way around.

Happens all of the time here in every whatever-con in Mexico. Police knows about it but a good ol' bribe is all what they need to turn their heads to some other place like that old guy who's trying to make a completely legal store.

I'm Mexican thats the reason I know of this.

Illegal ROMs at Wizard World? What?!

Reader Comments (46)

Posted: Jun 3rd 2008 12:53PM McWeen said

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