It's too hard to find stuff on XBLA, says Microsoft
by Jason Dobson 
{ Jun 5th 2008 at 5:00AM }
Speaking to MTV Multiplayer, Aaron Greenberg, Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Xbox Live product management director, owned up to the service's organization ills. "I think that we are not...happy with the ability to find and discover content," he said, adding that Microsoft "built Xbox Live Marketplace for a few hundred items and now we have 17,000 items."
It's something the company is hoping to correct, at least in part with its controversial decision to shelve under-performing Xbox Live Arcade releases, but Greenberg admits that Microsoft is still looking for a solution to make content on Xbox Live easier to track down. We've contacted our Joystiq mentalists, who are at this very moment trying to project two simple words into the minds of XBL devs. Search. Bar.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
David78 @ Jun 5th 2008 5:27AM
And?
Is that a reason to get rid of games?
It says more about your User Interface than anything...
Obie @ Jun 5th 2008 9:30AM
Don't you know the Dewey Decimal system !?
Sir Fidlious Wong (Justin T. McElroy Memorial Burn of the Day Award) @ Jun 5th 2008 9:31AM
Is it time for Wheel Of Fish yet?
baby sea tuna @ Jun 5th 2008 9:59AM
A RED SNAPPA! Very tasty...
Obie @ Jun 5th 2008 10:05AM
An easy way to find stuff on XBL?
When chihuahuas can fly!
PhrawzT @ Jun 5th 2008 12:25PM
They need an option to filter games by letter, year, size or hide games that your don't gare about. Taking games off the list isn't going to help much at all.
ScottyGEE @ Jun 5th 2008 5:28AM
How about 5 star ranking system from users?
Then they don't even have to do any work? Or do they think we're all a bunch of 12 year olds who'll just put ms pac man at the top?
Psaakyrn @ Jun 5th 2008 5:52AM
Ranking systems are a) inherently abusable, and b) puts too much power into those who are not qualified to make judgements.
baby sea tuna @ Jun 5th 2008 8:23AM
I dunno...people voted your comment up because it was thoughtful and well presented.
DEMOCRACY WORKS!
Sean D. @ Jun 5th 2008 10:58AM
How about a profile based ranking system, like Netflix:
"The majority of XBLA users vote this game an average score of 2.2, but USERS LIKE YOU gave it 4.5!" Put that datamining to work! The ranking will also let each user know, immediately, that they've already tried a particular game and how they liked it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games. People who abuse the system probably have similar gaming interests to other people who abuse the system, and thus will never try anything because they're all busy following each other and hating everything.
JCD @ Jun 5th 2008 11:24AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy just doesn't work.
-Kent Brockman
GenBanks @ Jun 5th 2008 5:45AM
I've got an idea... enable mouse and keyboard support! While you're at it, enable it for games too.
Matt @ Jun 5th 2008 8:50AM
How about they take some of that schnazzy Microsoft Sync technology, put it into XBL and allow us to search for media via voice chat on our already connected headphones.
Brian @ Jun 5th 2008 8:49AM
Keyboard support?
Any USB keyboard which doesn't require drivers for (when used with a pc) works with the 360.
Pralaya @ Jun 5th 2008 6:11AM
dear microsoft, what about a better browsing option and a decent
interface? do you think you will able to do so, in your freetime, when you are not trying to conquest the world with your operation system and your wide net of control features.
thanks, we do appreciate a lot the vision of the world you have built for us.
Daniel @ Jun 5th 2008 6:24AM
The marketplace isn't the only place where options aren't organized intuitively. Even though the 360 dashboard is popular, it's a big mess in itself, along with the xbox guide. I doubt they would change the whole blade system, but sometimes finding what you are looking for takes a bit too long.
ScottyGEE @ Jun 5th 2008 6:30AM
I agree...Many options are within a few menus.
Heck, the popular achievements you have to go through 3(?) menu's before seeing them in detail
Sky Shark X2 @ Jun 5th 2008 6:59AM
.....um do you have vision problems, everything's pretty darn easy to find. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to the system your using but they do have sections on each blade with basic, specfic names. Heck for the games area they break it down further into Xbox, Demos, Live Games, Recently Downloaded excetra.
Daniel @ Jun 5th 2008 5:05PM
im talking less about finding where games are, and more about changing settings for your profile. there are "personal settings", and then there are other profile options where your gamer picture and gamerscore are. and yeah, it takes a while to look at the achievement list unless you are playing an XBLA game. Also, Why not have music shortcuts straight to a preset location, rather than having to browse through the folder tree every time? it's an inefficient menu system.
E.J. @ Jun 5th 2008 6:29AM
So the marketplace needs to be updated for reorganization and they blame the content?
This is where the PlayStation Store actually has it right over Live. Sorted by year, selected alphabetical ranges, genre, top downloads, etc.
baby sea tuna @ Jun 5th 2008 8:28AM
No, I just think they were trying to thin it out a little bit before reorganizing. I still agree that it's probably not the smartest thing to do, but honestly, how many of those delisted games are people really going to cry about when they go missing? I hadn't even heard of about half of them!
You're right though, multiple search options would be great, as would a search bar with text input.
goboColossus (LIVE, PSN - gobopop) @ Jun 5th 2008 6:37AM
I really liked the Blade system, Dashboard, Guide, and Marketplace. It was easy to use, somewhat attractive (Glass FTW), and not overly cumbersome and time consuming. Of course, over time through various updates, explosions of available content, limited HDD and crap HDD file-system / management, and the 73 Arcade titles I've downloaded and kept the passable interface has become more and more a pain to use, and exposed as the truly convoluted mess of visual software architecture it truly is.
I never put much thought into Sony's XMB when I only had a PSP. All I did was play games on the thing, and I did so UMD only with a 2GB Memory Stick. It was a decent interface (especially for a handheld!), but it didn't serve a purpose when all I did was play UMD games.
In comes the PlayStation 3, with it's wealth of downloadable games akin to XBLA and a store model akin to Marketplace and all of a sudden I'm noticing the nice little features that make the XMB a brilliant, if not beautiful interface. I like organizing my items the way I want (one week I'll have all PSN games in one folder, the next I'll tag them with genres and organize them that way, separating PSP content and PSX ISOs), being able to navigate on a single plane with smooth control, and a "marketplace" (now much better than the original, thanks for that!) that is both organized and attractive to boot. It's all just easy to use, for anyone.
I really want a navigable interface, that isn't a pain to use to at least hit the 360. I'm sick and tired of chugging through it to accomplish simple tasks... and the loading! My god, the loading drives me nuts! I was so disappointed the spring update didn't happen and bring with it another improvement to the dashboard / marketplace / guide. Maybe this fall? I certainly hope so.
Meh, At least it has no affect on my Lost Planet Colonies playtime. And conversely, In Game XMB please. :P
End of Rant.
PojoMofo @ Jun 5th 2008 10:11AM
well said, I agree with every point. The blade system needs an overhaul to handle all the data available.
I had the same experience with XMB, I had a PSP for about a year before I had a PS3, but from the get-go my PSP was my main MP3 player, I kept photos and videos and even used it as a USB flash drive on occasion, and realized how easy it was to use.
PSN just did an overhaul, no reason XBLA cant do one as well
Obie @ Jun 5th 2008 12:38PM
The annoying load time is contributed to the 360 Hard drive not having a defragmentation option....the thing keeps getting slower and slower.
zero2dash @ Jun 5th 2008 4:11PM
What's funny is how 360 owners used to tell Ps3 owners how great the Dashboard was and how mediocre the XMB was.
I find myself agreeing with you these days though...(I only own a PSP at the moment, not a Ps3 yet)
XMB is easier to navigate than the Dashboard. They have overcomplicated the Dashboard and filled a good 60% portion of the damn thing up with ADVERTISEMENTS even for paying Live Gold customers. They need to SIMPLIFY it. Everything these days is SIMPLIFIED. Look at Apple products, Lian-Li computer cases, and the XMB for instance. Simplified. Nice, neat, orderly. No more than one or two steps to get "where you want to get going to".
The 360 Dashboard is now a cluttered swooping mess.
Korova *Pyro aspect* @ Jun 5th 2008 7:05AM
XBL is just a website with a gimped input system.
Microsoft, I really want to like you - you built a great console with fun games, but
-when I cant sort titles by release date
-when I have to know (or futilely guess) a games' Genre
-when there is absolutely no user-management
-when you blame content for not selling itself
from a website you built,
I start to hate you again for being a big stupid monopoly that cant get anything right except suck money out of people with threats and promises.
Maybe if this was 1994, those excuses would be appropriate, but there way too many examples of websites that sell stuff and an intern can tell you what a customer wants and likes.
I cant believe how reactive they are. The only reason I can see for the way things are is that MS corporate looks at lifetime losses of XBOX division and says "I am not giving you any more money for anything, until you make back the ocean of money you lost." So they have no resources to anticipate things, just react.
its just sad.
xFenixKnightx @ Jun 5th 2008 8:26AM
XBLA and the dashboard are really easy to use. Stop bitching for no *real reason SDF. The blades work just fine (unless you're mentally challenged of course) and I wouldn't have it any other way. Especially not PSN's, which looks like an intern designed over the weekend. I'm glad Sony re-did the PStore now redo the XMB.
baby sea tuna @ Jun 5th 2008 8:40AM
I personally haven't been on the PSN store since they redesigned it (just shows you how often I use my PlayStation) but from the pictures, it looks a lot more usable than XBLM, which is kind of a mess. I think MS seriously needs to sit a large group of people down and do some sort of usability focus group to help them clean up the interface. I mean sure, I can find stuff when I need it, but let's say my parents (who also have a 360) want to download a movie or a game that isn't the ad-featured game of the week or whatever.
If MS really wants to start tapping the larger console market (the one that the Wii is doing so well in) they need to make it so that the average person can easily take advantage of one of the 360's strongest features, DLC. A redesign with a competant sorting system would go a long way to making the Xbox a lot more user-friendly.
Lorben @ Jun 5th 2008 8:49AM
After getting used to Steam and then getting a 360 I was surprised at how bad the organization is.
Can I search for games by price range because I only want to see 400 point games? No. Can I get a list of game content add ons to see if there's anything for a game I own without going through each game individually? No. Can I search for a specific title, the most basic of all search functions? No. Every fricken time I've got to go into the list of games and scroll down a short bit at a time so that it doesn't jump 3 letters ahead and I miss the game I was looking for.
Once you've got the item bought it's fine, but I've never seen such a poor system to buy content.
baby sea tuna @ Jun 5th 2008 9:08AM
"Can I get a list of game content add ons to see if there's anything for a game I own without going through each game individually?"
Yeah, that's by far my biggest problem with the XBLM. That should be a default in the "retail games" section...which, come to think of it, doesn't exist either, does it?
NATO_Duke @ Jun 5th 2008 10:44AM
I agree Lorben - that set-up is awful. I think the blade system as a whole is nice, but there are some features that need to be worked on. The ones you talked about, and maybe cleaning up how we get to things like achievements and other buried features. The PSN store as its been redesigned is much easier to use in many respects, and XBL needs to look at a way of organizing like Sony did.
zero @ Jun 5th 2008 8:51AM
Microsoft should provide a discrete list of tags that users can apply to XBLA games.
Dr. @ Jun 5th 2008 9:13AM
We've been telling you this for years, say consumers.
Phillip @ Jun 5th 2008 9:15AM
How about letting people who actually buy DLC be able to rate it. That way you eliminate people who trash things without playing them. It's not fool proof, but I think over time the ratings would be worth something because a good game will stick out. And yeah, there needs to be a search function.
Leilock @ Jun 5th 2008 9:19AM
I'm with pretty much everybody here on this one. With a piece of software with this much content (thousands of items as they say) removing content is not an option, you just have to go with it and make a smarter interface. The social elements (rating, tagging) would help but even a proper indexed search would be easy as hell, i mean it's only decade old technology!
Obie @ Jun 5th 2008 9:33AM
Hey M$! Your interface sucks:
1. I can never find anything I am looking for on XBLA.
2. And when I do it even shows region locked content.
3. Once purchased, I have to wade through ad clogged blades on my own dashboard to find them.
They just need a full reboot of their interface.
Haon @ Jun 5th 2008 9:38AM
Its not just the interface design but its also the speed. I use my 360 the most by far but I jsut love how I can quickly go to anything I want in the ps3 xmb. They really have to get rid of that bloated, sluggish ui.
elindiano @ Jun 5th 2008 9:41AM
your interface sucks!
thats why im not renewing my subscription. too hard to find anything.
anyway im done with it.
princeofshapeir @ Jun 5th 2008 9:59AM
Wow, this reeks of incompetence. I don't normally bash MS but they don't need to look far. Amazon.com probably sells at least 2 million unique items on their store. Just organize XBL Marketplace the way Amazon has arranged their website.
princeofshapeir @ Jun 5th 2008 10:03AM
elindiano, you don't need to be subscribed to purchase anything on Xbox Live Marketplace nor does having a subscription give you any perks on Marketplace. Your pants are on fire!
colby @ Jun 5th 2008 10:23AM
Listen, they simply need more search options and more ways to vary search results. Much like a shopping web site ... you can see results from most > least, vice versa. I think that would help a lot.
LiquidJ @ Jun 5th 2008 10:19AM
ROFL!!!!
This is just the tip of the Iceberg. None of their crap scales well. Good thing you paid all that subscription money for a cluttered mess.
NATO_Duke @ Jun 5th 2008 11:52AM
Oh you nailed it. We pay for Live because of the ability to use its free features.
Good try. We pay for the MP servers and the associated features, which this issue has nothing to do with.
shMerker @ Jun 5th 2008 11:45AM
17,000 - 50 = 16,950. Oh yeah, I can see how stuff is going to be much easier to find. It is nice though that they acknowledge that something needs to change on the interface.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jun 5th 2008 12:30PM
I agree with everyone here, and MS at the same time.
The problem isn't the content sucks (some of certainly does), but that you can't find the good stuff.
It's a UI problem. The UI of XBox Live tries to be simple by having few controls per blade actually is a bit of a mess. MS are no dopes though, they surely will figure out how to fix it.
Jeff @ Jun 5th 2008 1:57PM
sort by release date? anyone?
Korova *Pyro aspect* @ Jun 5th 2008 5:08PM
yes, pls
Shogan @ Jun 5th 2008 2:14PM
Microsoft, I will sort your lists out FOR FREE. I swear, why is a good sorting system so impossible for these guys to envision? Arcade should not mean every single game except Xbox Originals. Jeeze, hire some humans or something.
Seanathan @ Jun 5th 2008 2:46PM
It would be so wonderful if MS put XBLA online. That way I can browse the title on a website, purchase and queue up downloads just like Bungie has for Halo 3. This was all mention in an article not long ago by someone who used to work for Lionhead. Talking about the pitfalls of the shelving system and Portal viewing vs. Content aggregators.
kftgr @ Jun 5th 2008 4:59PM
Search Bar might involve too much typing.
I'd rather have easily selectable filters instead...like year, top X item, rating (for movies/tv), etc.
Also, a tagging system would be cool.