Report: Comp-related degree enrollment down 50%
Specifically within the gaming industry, EA's vice-president of talent acquisition says the company is working more directly with colleges to recruit, offer internships and "shape curriculum." Both EA and Microsoft express that many students aren't graduating with the skills needed by the company. Oh, come on, everyone needs drama majors!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Naota @ Jun 23rd 2008 11:59AM
I'll be a CS major next year. It's a bit hard to imagine that there's less and less of us each year though...
Naota @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:00PM
ack, I mean't this year
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:15PM
"fewer and fewer of us"
GreyFox @ Jun 23rd 2008 4:10PM
As someone who wants to get in the game industry and wanted to take a B. Sc. I can say the main reason why I don't want to anymore is the lack of focus universities have on anything game related. The programs are designed for office work and nothing else. Obviously I can see how some skills are transferable but when there are so many other different ways to get in the industry I'd rather not do it that way and go into mounds of student debt for a job I might not get.
Eleniel @ Jun 23rd 2008 9:03PM
@GreyFox: even with a Game Design degree, there's no guarantee you'll get into the industry. It's NEVER a sure thing. At least with a CS degree you have backup options that pay really well.
BananaBoat @ Jun 23rd 2008 11:30PM
I think I speak for most of us game-loving-business-majors when I say that the reason we aren't doing Comp Sci for video games (specifically) is that if you want to enroll in the Comp Sci program at 99% of Universities, even if you just want to do game related studies, you still have to do....Trig, Calc, Trig II etc. I know that programming is heavily math related but there are plenty of inroads to game design that have nothing to do with math (such as anything artistic; storyboarding, game audio, etc). Having to do ridiculously complicated math classes is the reason most people do arts or business (All I have to pass for Bach. of Business Admin is Algebra 110ish). Universities are in the habit of lumping anything and everything having to do with a computer, into the group of degree programs that need the ball-busting math, and it's silly.
If I wind up working for a company in the video game industry, it's going to be because they look at me as a person, and not because they look at my degree. Hopefully...
/still crying from Highschool Calc
Dirty @ Jun 23rd 2008 11:59AM
Im sure all those communication majors could easly jump over.
Mr.ESC @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:05PM
People study communications to meet people right? I mean what kind of job needs a communications degree? In every college I've been communications and tourism is full while careers that have anything to do with Engineering, Systems, computers or Robotics is Half-full or almost empty.
Dirty @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:09PM
I was joking, Communications people are just there for a 4 year booze filled ride on their parents dollar.
Smart people like me get business degrees. (please read with sarcasm).
Mr.ESC @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:16PM
Oh I see anyway I was just asking about why people study communications.
wickedpheonix @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:33PM
Communications majors = those people who you see delivering statements to the press or investors.
NATO_Duke @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:42PM
"Communications majors = those people who you see delivering statements to the press or investors."
Please. When I was in undergrad we all considered the comms majors to be those who couldn't figure out a direction in life and just wanted to be in school for something. I'm sorry to those who went for the degree with a better reason, but the vast majority I saw were only taking a 4 year vacation from having to find a job.
Dirty @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:50PM
Comm majors have better Grammar than I do.
xGeneral DEATHx @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:58PM
At my university, Communications and Poli. Sci. majors were the ones who didn't have a specific direction...so yeah, they typically end up being the "get drunk off of parent money" majors.
Mr Khan @ Jun 23rd 2008 1:18PM
I've always been told that Comm and Statistics were the BS majors
vidGuy @ Jun 23rd 2008 6:52PM
I'd generally agree with you but for my roommate's recent success landing a $60k+ job at a radio station after doing a year as an intern and graduating with a comm degree. Took me for a loop, that's for sure.
Abscissa @ Jun 23rd 2008 10:22PM
Psychology was always the "drunks and dumbasses" major at the places I've been.
Aero @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:01PM
I guess this would mean more job opportunities for me.
GunForHire @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:26PM
Same.
And I'm pretty sure there's not many Comp. grads that look like the two in the picture either!
time @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:02PM
I'm gonna be a CS major. I'm liking this news, it should make it a bit easier to get a job.
Thief @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:09PM
I just spent $30,000 on my schooling for game programmer...
>=\
brokenscope @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:28PM
What other degree's do you have or are you planning on getting any others?
xGeneral DEATHx @ Jun 23rd 2008 1:01PM
Was that a degree program or a certificate program?
FOXHOUND @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:10PM
I'm probably in that statistic, switched from Comp'Sci to Criminal Justice. Not because of all the math classes required(at least, that's a reason I've overheard from collegues); but because I was working in related fields at the time... and it was too much of "a revolving door" for me. Oddly enough though, even working currently for the Fire Marshal, I'm still doing "help desk" work when I'm at the office for the PC-illiterate. ¬_¬
I didn't like going into work every day, thinking the firm I worked for could either face a buy out, mass-layoffs, or the business opting to use labor from overseas. That infamous South Park quote by the blue collars of "Dey took 'ur jawwwbz!" apparently applied here as well(but not in the same context). Craziness. XD
I still like coding/debugging stuff for friends now and then to stay on my toes, but I couldn't see myself working for some "conglomo"(thanks 'Rocko)having spent most of my working life doing it thus far.
vidGuy @ Jun 23rd 2008 6:59PM
Ever thought about going into a cybercrime division of a big P.D. or the FBI? I just finished a bachelors in Computer Investigations/Criminal Justice and it was immensely rewarding. Fantastic split between the CJ and CS fields that might serve your interests.
Dr. @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:11PM
Not pictured: Actual graduates.
brokenscope @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:27PM
I hate your truth. Then again its more my school than anything.
Eleniel @ Jun 23rd 2008 6:28PM
Fuck you. Just because a woman is pretty doesn't make her stupid.
Dr. @ Jun 23rd 2008 7:33PM
Hold on now... That's not *quite* how the joke was intended. Less focus on graduate, and more focus on compsci.
Eleniel @ Jun 23rd 2008 9:13PM
Well, you're still making a bad joke using tired and offensive stereotypes. Women--good-looking ones, too--can and do get CS degrees; I'm living proof. Maybe more would if people didn't say shit like this all the time.
Dr. @ Jun 23rd 2008 9:47PM
I'm sure that at this point it really doesn't matter what I say, but I still think you're missing the implication I'm trying to make here. This had nothing to do with women -- had the picture been of two jocks at graduation, I would've said the same thing.
If you're good looking *and* have a CS degree, congrats. You're luckier than most of us. :)
Abscissa @ Jun 23rd 2008 10:47PM
@Eleniel: Oh please, how many of the CS classes you took had any more than 25% female students? I'd bet it was no more than one or two classes *if any*, and that's regardless of looks. If good-looking-women have a problem with being underrepresented in CS then maybe more of them should get into CS. And if you've done just that, then good for you. But, for better or worse, the way things are is the way things are, and the ugly truth (no pun intended) of the matter is this: You're currently the exception, not the rule. Deal with it.
Besides, what your "feminism-in-overdrive" has blinded you to is the fact that what "Dr." was really saying is that "Most 'stock photo' models are not CS grads" - a fact that (1) can hardly be debated and (2) isn't relevant to what you're ranting about anyway.
MosquitoControl @ Jun 23rd 2008 10:55PM
Not found: Elenial's sense of humor.
Not likely: Elenial's attractiveness. Not if she got this annoyed at a simple joke.
FSK405K @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:17PM
And that's why the US will become subservient to China and India within 15 years: no one here in the US is studying hard science and, now, computer science/engineering. Hello, all the Nobel Laureates from soon to be from Asia.
Korova *of the highlands* @ Jun 23rd 2008 4:06PM
I cant wait for 1,001 Nights MMO from an Indian developer. It would be an episodic game.
Also, the Kama Sutra trilogy coming after that (an action adventure title).
FSK405K @ Jun 23rd 2008 4:27PM
I'm not sure there would be a lot of people in India interest in doing the Arabian Nights, given the religious differences. Look at the crap games in the US/West regarding religion (Left Behind). If we can't do a decent Christian game, why would we expect anywhere to do a game on an external religion? As much as I would love to see 1001 MMO, probably no country interested in making it has the comp-sci infrastructure to make it worth anything.
svenhoek @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:17PM
Hey fo those of us ALREADY enrolled in one of theose classes that kinda good news. Easy internships. And Insomniac is about to open a studio by my house soon.
David @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:19PM
Taking MIS at my college. Was taking Computer Engineering, but I was dying from calculus.
Daniel @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:21PM
well I kind of had a feeling this would happen...but it does help create a lot more jobs for me and anyone else, but remember CS isn't simple as it might seem or hear about
Sinnix @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:22PM
Hopefully this ends up improving workplace conditions and job compensation.
jcd @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:24PM
graduates outsourced to india
Eleniel @ Jun 23rd 2008 6:30PM
This is 100% myth, which is unfortunate, because it might be one of the causes of fewer comp sci students.
brokenscope @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:25PM
Well, lets see.
At my College, half the CS and Software Engineering majors, know one language and don't want to learn another language.
That language is Java, and my school pushes java like it is gods gift to man. They offer, but never actually teach, class in other languages. The only folks who learn multiple languages are the ones like me who teach ourselves.
So the few that do graduate don't tend to have all the useful skills needed for programming.
So in short
brokenscope @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:26PM
I'll be a decent programmer, and I won't be have much competition.
VampMGS2 @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:50PM
My university offers Java exclusively for the first few starter classes, and C is introduced in a second year course but Java is still preferred for most courses (for obvious reasons: object oriented, way larger standard library, easier to use, much more useful for mutliplatform support, etc, etc).
The thing is being able to use multiple languages is just an expected skill of computer programmers; if you can't switch from Java to any C-like language (C, C++, C#, PHP, Ptyhon... basically anything that's not radically different ala Scheme) within a couple of weeks at most then you're not a very good programmer. Also Java is in pretty high demand to use in web-servers; granted it's not that useful for games, but switching from Java to C++ is a breeze.
Anyway, I see this a good news for me as in just a couple years I'll be a graduate with an in-demand CS u-grad degree and have a good paying job pretty much right off the bat.
brokenscope @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:59PM
Hi-Five!
Mr.ESC @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:24PM
Is Java better than VB.net? I know VB and I'm trying to advance to C++.
As you may see I'm a noob and I'm trying to learn as much as possible about VB but people told me that I should just go ahead and start learning C++
I don't know if I should study programming/system or engineering (like everyone else in the family) or become a lawyer. Systems are pretty cool and I have been taking some lessons but in México lawyers get paid pretty well especially fiscal lawyers since is one hard career because the requirements are too high.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:26PM
Is your school CMU? Because I get these resumes from people with "embedded systems knowledge" only to find the embedded systems course is taught virtually all in Java.
That's worthless.
American students need to learn how to get the right job skills even if their college isn't giving it in classes. Do some programming in your off time.
I see summer jobs of American students, and they worked at Burger King. Indian students take a summer and work with a professor (preferably a prof at an IIT, even if they don't go to one themselves) on a project.
Pro tip to students who want jobs:
Do some programming on open source projects. Fix some bugs, add some features, write it up in your resume and give a link to the source server where I can inspect what you did. The #1 problem we have is finding people who can program, and if I can see your code just by clicking a link and it's good, it'll give you a FAR bigger chance of getting an interview than if you just have a page of class projects on your resume.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jun 23rd 2008 2:32PM
Mr. ESC. Skip VB. Honestly, you'd do far better to learn C# (.Net) or Java than VB. But if you want a top-level position (Silicon Valley systems work) you need to know C and C++ inside and out. Backwards and forwards.
wickedpheonix @ Jun 23rd 2008 12:31PM
Chalk it up to the marketing directed at kids:
1) From an early age young girls are hit with advertisements that depict attractiveness etc. Girls go to the movies/television, see hot attractive actresses, decide that they want to become actresses and look for drama majors. Where is the hot geek/coder on TV or in the movies (sorry, I had to)?
2) In general for other people, everyone looks at medical school, law school, etc. because there's a persistent stigma in society to "marry a doctor/lawyer" and that these professions are rather high paying and that if you survive these professional schools you will be successful.
The point being that from an early age there is very little to persuade young people to enter a computer-related career. And, as such careers are increasingly outsourced abroad to countries where computer-related careers are the high paying local jobs (rather than doctor, lawyer, etc), there is not as high of a demand from employers coming to college campuses looking for people with computer-related degrees.
But for those of us who wish to enter jobs like network administration (try to outsource that - you need to be at least be able to be on site for that), all I can say is EASIER JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE MONEY!!!! :D :D