Joystiq interviews Mark Lamia of Treyarch and Call of Duty the Fifth

Mark Lamia with all the games he's worked on.
After having a good look at Call of Duty: World at War, we decided to hurl some questions at developer Treyarch's studio head, Mark Lamia. Find out what we learned from the guy who has worked on everything from CoD5 to Santa Fe Mysteries: The Elk Moon Murder, after the break!So, Call of Duty 2 sold really well when it launched, and then CoD3 didn't do so well, then Modern Warfare came in and cleaned up with awards and sales, and now it's back to you guys for Call of Duty 5. How do you address that?
So, here's what I have to say. First off, with World at War, these guys are out to make the best game of their lives, and hopefully what you saw today shows that the quality of the game is on par with anything out there, and any Call of Duty experience anyone's ever had.
Having the experience they'd had working on so many Call of Duty games leading up to this, the Call of Duty 4 engine really letting the designers only worry about the next-gen platforms...
There's no PlayStation 2 version at all?
No. And the Wii has a team that's dedicated to it. The game designers don't worry about any of the platforms. There are designers that are dedicated to the Wii platform, because they're trying to make it for the controls and different stuff, so we have dedicated engineers, artists, and designers associated with the Wii platform, so we have a ton of resources and a stable platform to start with while we're making that thing. But, it will be the exact [same] experience except for the changes that we need to make for the controls and everything else.
Now, when we were making a game that had to run on the PS2 with Call of Duty 3 and everything else, it did affect your design decisions that you're making, which we don't have to deal with on this one. Next-gen only, baby! And no small thing is also -- United Offensive: one year, Call of Duty 2: Big Red One, one year, Call of Duty 3: one year, cross generational launch title for PS3 and Wii! I don't even know if there's another studio in the industry that would sign up or let alone get that done in that time frame. This is really about what these guys can do.
What was the time frame on this one?
Two years. They started it right after Call of Duty 3, before Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare had come out. There was no Modern Warfare. Since we're taking two years to make it, which is the amount of time CoD2 and 4 had, and having that stable platform to work on, it's really no comparison. Hopefully that gives you guys a good idea of why we're able to do what we're doing right now, and how we're going to be able to make sure that World at War is the most kick-ass WWII game.
Some people say 'So why are you going back to World War II?' Well, we don't really look at it like we're going back to WWII, because the game that we're making ... these guys didn't want to make the same game either. They've been making WWII games for a long time, and Call of Duty has done awesome. It pretty much is the standard for WWII games. But, they're creative and they really wanted to do something new and different. Because they don't have one year, they can actually experiment and go in new directions and pick on themes and different things inside the war. There are totally different things [in this game] that people haven't played before in any game or in any Call of Duty game. When you've got one year, you do what you know, and get it done well, don't mess around. When you've got two years, you have a chance to introduce new gameplay, new elements, a new physics system to allow for new weaponry, new vehicles, or new A.I. Introducing new co-op play, no small feat. So for them, it's totally new. It's not like any of the other World War II stuff.
You mentioned that it's a different team on the Wii, is that an internal team? What else have they worked on?
Yes. Some of them have worked on the other current-gen Call of Duty titles, but some of these also worked on the Wii version of Call of Duty. We also work with a company called Exact that we worked with on Call of Duty 3 for the Wii, but they're a company that works with us. They're in this area here. But, we have our own team associated with it, with content people. So I think we're probably the first shooter team to create two Wii titles. We've got the benefit on that platform ... because when you're making a launch title it's pretty challenging, so we have the benefit of already having launched and released and kind of learning about the platform. It's our second time around.
Will there be online with the Wii?
Yes, there will be. [Then we had to cut this line of questioning short, thanks to the PR rep in the room. Curses.]
We've heard the rumor that Infinity Ward will be producing all of the Call of Duty titles after this, and all of Activision's shooters. Is that true?
I've heard that same rumor and no, it's not true. They're one team. Their last two games they've been taking two years to work, and they're on their next game now.
How soon did you know you were going to be using the CoD4 engine?
It was a big discussion. Wrapping up on Call of Duty 3, we do production planning for our next games to figure out what technology we're going to use. We evaluated all the technologies, and already the team was very familiar with Infinity Ward's technology with working with United Offensive, our design team in particular. They already understood that. While we did some due diligence on it, it really wasn't much of a choice. It was a great piece of technology, it's a Call of Duty game, the team is very close, a lot of the guys know each other on the teams. It was more like, do we keep going with something that we started with here, or do we keep going.
In approaching this in a brand new theater, did your team consider the cultural differences and sensitivity between the United States and Japan? Do you address dropping the bomb?
It's the end of the Pacific campaign, but we're not doing that part of that. There's not much gameplay associated with that and and that's something that we never tried to focus on. We are making a game, we're not making a political statement. What we try to do as we strive for authenticity is: well that was part of the war. The Imperial Japanese were different than the current people who run the country, and to sanitize that situation, to actually not show that they had this honor and code that these soldiers fought with would have been a dishonor. We just tried to tell a story about a part of the war that actually happened.





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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mr.ESC @ Jun 24th 2008 10:19AM
Very interesting but I'm more interested in the games in the background of the picture.
Final Doom sick,Quake FTW but no Diablo? WTF? and where in the world is Hexen? Everybody should play Hexen at least once in their lives.
Intentless @ Jun 24th 2008 10:30AM
Heretic/Hexxen definetly...
Ralod @ Jun 24th 2008 10:51AM
I think I see Jedi Knight 2 there, and Return to castle wolfenstein too. So these are all the games he's worked on? Pretty impressive.
Fin @ Jun 24th 2008 11:17AM
I'd imagine they're just a load of Activision games actually, rather than ones related to that guy.
ComicShaman @ Jun 24th 2008 11:40AM
Ah, Hexen. Now you're talking. I have sweet memories of Hexen deathmatches after hours in the office where I used to work. There's a series I wish somebody would revive.
Boffo the Sock @ Jun 24th 2008 1:04PM
The caption says that the games behind him are ones he worked on, so I can only assume that he did not work on Hexen or Heretic.
tmacairjordan87 @ Jun 24th 2008 3:03PM
Hopefully you don't mean hexen 64, cause I made the mistake of playing that. You people think today's games are dark and dreary? play hexen 64
ViagraFiend @ Jun 24th 2008 10:21AM
Sweet! More CoD info! :p
Intentless @ Jun 24th 2008 10:31AM
But then again the caption does state.. Games he has worked on not what he has played necessarily...
Carlitos Colon @ Jun 24th 2008 10:44AM
Whew! I was starting to worry there wouldn't be any COD5 coverage today. I need my hourly reminder that I don't give a crap about this game.
Ian @ Jun 24th 2008 1:16PM
You cared enough to reply.
jhrf89 @ Jun 24th 2008 1:25PM
This ever so nearly made me lol.
And replying is not a measure of how much one cares for anything.
farfisa @ Jun 24th 2008 10:48AM
We are the Lamia of the poooooool. We have been waiting for our waters to bring you cool...
Servo @ Jun 24th 2008 12:19PM
I've lurked here for years, and never felt the urge to post. However, I must give props to anyone who quotes Peter Gabriel from The Lamb. Props to you, farfisa.
Evil Bastard @ Jun 24th 2008 12:36PM
Saw a band called The Musical Box about two years ago. They did a complete faithful live rendition of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, including all the costumes. Way freaking cool.
farfisa @ Jun 24th 2008 1:18PM
It's not often you can pull out "The Lamia" and have people know what the hell you're talking about--props back to you!
I saw the Musical Box over twelve years ago (so they've been doing Genesis twice as long as Gabriel did) and they recreated the Selling England tour. Would love to have seen them do the Lamb though!
Servo @ Jun 24th 2008 2:36PM
I saw the Musical Box "Selling England by the Pound" tour myself. It was remarkable to me how they nail that era of Genesis so well. I missed the Lamb tour, but I sure wish I could have seen it. Man, two other Gabriel era Genesis fans on Joystiq... never would have guessed!
Sean @ Jun 24th 2008 1:16PM
My problem is that he is just making PR excuses for why they are still using the WWII as the primary theme. The fact that they could not communicate with IW on what kind of game they were making to help up the ante on their end is inexcusable. Also if COD4 was developed after COD:WAW started their development and they both have the same development time of 2 years, then someone at Treyarch or IW has access to a time dilation field in order to get COD4 done before COD:WAW. WAW should have been done well before COD4 at that point.
I can only begin to speculate why these events occurred the way they have but either way it sounds like a mediocre design decision for them to continue down the path of WWII...pacific theater of war or not. If they wanted to do a pacific theater of war they should have moved on to Vietnam. There are far more interesting things they could have done with the Vietnam War than WWII in the Pacific (yay we now have flamethrowers...whoopdeedo). In the end you are left with the same weapons we all are used to for WWII (M1AI Carbine, M1 Carbine, BAR, etc.).
It will take a lot more than a flamethrower and Japanese Soldiers with Katanas for Treyarch to overcome the rancid stigma of COD3.
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
The3rdNuisance @ Jun 25th 2008 11:48PM
Their excuse for making another WW2 game shouldn't need to be said, its as simple as saying "We wanted to." Honestly, aside from the weapons, the gameplay is going to differentiated enough, and if weapon diversity is your problem, you would of stopped playing shooters at Half Life 2.
To the time comment, I can't comprehend how you mixed that up. Year One: IW Begins CoD2 360. Year Two: Treyarch begins CoD3. Year Three: CoD2 360 Ships. CoD4 is started Year Four: CoD3 Ships, CoD5 is started. Year Five: CoD4 Ships, CoHalo started. And it keeps on in that pattern.
Sorry for the way I phrased the response, I type for the lowest common denominator. However, I will give you this, I would rather use duct tape to remove my pubes than play CoD3.
NATO_Duke @ Jun 24th 2008 11:56AM
So, will this game be a nex-gen title? Will the Wii version be the same game as the others, or just the same experience? ? Will it actually be "COD5"? Will it provide screenshots to look over?
These are things We need a massive dose of! Life without more WaW news could lead to us all falling apart.
mr mobius @ Jun 24th 2008 12:43PM
Take some pixels away and add some IR and you get the Wii version hopefully. Be nice if could have multi-platform online play but lets face it that would be almost impossible.
animeman_59 @ Jun 24th 2008 11:59AM
Thankfully, we're now done with killing nazis and have moved on to imperialist Japanese. That was a much different battle front than the one in Europe. Hopefully, this game will be interesting.
Now, how about we move on to another war? No games have fully conveyed the intensity of the Korean or Vietnam Wars. Why not make games detailing those conflicts? How about wars that didn't involve America? The Spanish Civil War? The Red Movement in China? How about the Crimeon War, or even World War 1? There's a lot of oppurtunity in exploring these important eras of history. RTS, FPS, or otherwise.
Hamson @ Jun 24th 2008 12:27PM
This is how World War I: The Game would play out: Hide in a trench, keep hiding in a trench, stay in that trench, oh! pop out and shoot a little, advance a couple of feet, hide in a trench, keep hiding in a trench...
finnith @ Jun 24th 2008 12:31PM
A World War One game would consist of waiting hours in a trench trying not to be killed by trench foot or artillery fire until being sent over the top and being killed instantly by machine gun fire, so no.
The Vietnam War has been done many times on the Xbox, PS2 and Gamecube. I guess they could make a game for this generation of consoles.
The Crimean War was way too long ago for most people to know it. (That's a bad reason I know)
Really, the only valid war in that list would be the Korean War.
A more recent war can't be covered, can it?
mr mobius @ Jun 24th 2008 12:45PM
There were some Gulf War games last gen if I remember. They seemed to be uncompatable with the current gen of shooters though - they were all shades of yellow instead of the current gen shades of green, grey and brown.
NATO_Duke @ Jun 24th 2008 1:23PM
A Korean War game would have some potential. Imagine the "oh shit!" feeling as you're platoon gets close to the Chinese border to only see their army to start flooding over to join the fight.
Eh @ Jun 24th 2008 5:27PM
They wont move to a different war until they beat the middle east theme to death like they did with WW2. So you better get used to middle east games, youre going to be playing them for at least 7 more years.
These companies are allergic to originality. Being creative would kill them.
The Daymonster @ Jun 24th 2008 1:05PM
How long do they get to work on this game? Two years?
qbix @ Jun 24th 2008 12:35PM
I'm still not convinced. I'm tired of WWII settings, weapons, etc. I think I'll stick to night vision and modern weapons with red dot sight attachments. Besides, I'm sure COD 6 will have co-op too and you can imagine the bad-ass weapons they'll have.
ranova @ Jun 24th 2008 1:19PM
SCRAPE this game. No one believes your spoon fed BS, Treyarch. WW2 games are boring and will be complete failures. Have fun wasting money on marketing and development, I seriously hope you guys fail and have to close shop.
Dont release junk just because you have been "working" on it for awhile or for the hell of it. Take blizzard for example, they have been working on Starcraft Ghost for a long time but will eventually scrape it because the game does not live up to the company standards. They have done this with many games in the past (warcraft adventures), and look at them now.
NATO_Duke @ Jun 24th 2008 1:24PM
What would you scrape off these games?
Carlitos Colon @ Jun 24th 2008 1:45PM
I'm also disappointed about the setting, but hoping they fail & have to close shop is a little harsh, no?
xGeneral DEATHx @ Jun 24th 2008 2:14PM
Apparently he'd scrape the WWII off to reveal the unicorns and ice cream underneath.
Mr Khan @ Jun 24th 2008 4:29PM
They have made the very bold claim that there's will be the best looking of all Wii games
Somehow i doubt this, even in the sphere of 3rd party titles
PatrickE @ Jun 24th 2008 8:40PM
Haha.. I love how the only card this dude ever plays is "we've had two years!" "WE'VE HAD TWO YEARS!" "it's going to be awesome because (and for no other reason that he can attest) we've had two years!"
Well dude... honestly, if that's the only claim you can make as to why your next game is going to rule, then it must already suck pretty bad. If it had any redeeming values at this point in time, he'd be spouting about them, not about how much time they've had to produce the title.
So what happens when this game sucks after they've had two years?
I'll keep waiting for IW's COD6: Moderner Warfare.
#28 @ Jun 25th 2008 2:07AM
I love how everyone knows that Treyarch is such an inferior developer to IW. Even IW knows it: the cod 4 exe file for the singleplayer is called "iw3sp.exe", as in the third IW COD game's singleplayer, instead of anything COD4 related.
Codfreak @ Jun 25th 2008 9:41PM
ok ppl, lets not forget that THIS IS CALL OF DUTY!! they have always made the best WW2 games!and this will not only be covering the pacific, about 2 minutes into the vid, it shows russians! covering their heads while a tank fires right beside them, then a lil l8tr it shows russians holding 2 nazis against a wall hostage and r set as a firing squad +)
not only the funny eyed ppl will u b killing, but those damned skinheads=)
Zamathar @ Jun 28th 2008 8:22AM
looks cool, not to bothered by it though, ill just stick to COD4
Zamathar @ Jun 28th 2008 8:36AM
i won't be picking up a copy of this.