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Reader Comments (67)

Posted: Jun 26th 2008 6:08AM (Unverified) said

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Thats not quite on the same level, easy mistake to make. I dont think i ever realised america was the only EMDC that makes people pay for their health care (even cuba managed to offer its people free health care). Anyway i dont think something resulting to police interfernce is on par with a simple mistake
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Posted: Jun 26th 2008 9:01AM Rocketboy said

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Rosssas, so, your hospitals have money trees?

Yes, uses 'taxpayer' money for their medical care, and it's bloody awful. What's your point?
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Posted: Jun 25th 2008 11:09PM Otimus said

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The main problem is, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Moderators, site maintainers, and all that other good stuff -- Is abused. The smaller the group, the bigger the abuse, too, which you wouldn't think would be the case. (Case in point: Garry's Mod forums)

I think using the excuse that you sign up for something, or because it's private, as an excuse to take away any person's rights outside of "Do what we say or leave" is lame.


Now, don't get me wrong, I think content should be controlled.

I just hate iron fisted all-answered things. "YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS HERE, EXCEPT THE ONES WE GIVE YOU, HUR HUR". It's bullshit.

Posted: Jun 25th 2008 11:15PM LaughingTarget said

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It isn't bullshit. It may be harsh, but it is their property, they can do what they please with it. I can behave like a jerk with people in my own home if I wished. I don't, but no law keeps me from removing you if you refuse to abide by a set of absurd rules I may chose to erect so long as it doesn't cause undue harm (except if you enter my home without my consent, in which case I can terminate anywhere from the visit itself up to and including even life with full immunity from civil and criminal charges).

You don't have any more right to be in my or anyone's house than you do on a message board. End if the day, if you don't like the rules, leave. You have no right to the post on the board by rules you dictate for yourself and the board is by no means a necessary part of your survival. The property's owner holds the final say and you simply have to live by those rules if you wish to utilize it, absurd or not.
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Posted: Jun 25th 2008 11:33PM vidguy said

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Think of it this way: your employer has every right to limit what you can do on their computer network, including what websites you visit, what content you access, etc. You have very limited (sometimes no) rights to access the company network. This is because it is company property and is intended for company purposes.

When you log on to a message board, you are in/on the owner's network. You can be limited by whatever rules the owner installs.

Should you be able to do or write anything on a message board? What about on the company network? There are myriad answers for why both should be designed as closed systems.
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Posted: Jun 26th 2008 6:23AM Otimus said

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Well, personally, I don't think anyone should have private property, but that's just me, and my cc-c-c-c-c-c-crazy communist beliefs.
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Posted: Jun 26th 2008 12:29AM hlarge4 said

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I like how some people believe the Constitution exists to benefit them when they would like it to. Be it players or lawyers. Truth is, I am a conservative, constitutionalist, libertarian. Meaning, so long as ones comments do no harms onto others, or thereby limit the ability for the second part to practice thier own freedom, you goddamn lawyers of liberal judges or any other ignorant worthless human being should have no right to say anything.
So, if i want to call you EXACTLY what you are on XBOX Live, so long as it is within the previously agreed upon boundaries when signing up for the service, then there should be NOTHING you damn lawyers or beuracrats can do about it.
Small Goverment for the win!

Posted: Jun 26th 2008 2:44AM Andrew F said

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Actually, a real "conservative, constitutionalist, libertarian" would agree with Mark. It's not the "damn lawyers or beuracrats" who are telling you to shut up -- it's Microsoft, a private company telling you to follow their terms of use when using their private property. If you tried to sue Microsoft on the grounds of free speech, then you're the one bringing in the government bureaucrats and lawyers, not Microsoft.

Look at it this way -- let's say a liberal wanted to put a sign on your door saying "hlarge4 is a moron". It does no harm and does not infringe on anyone's freedoms, but if you wanted to tear down the sign, you would be entirely within your rights. Why? Because it's your frickin' door, in the same way that XBox Live is Bill Gate's frickin' plaything.
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Posted: Jun 26th 2008 2:57AM (Unverified) said

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Yeah, and if you signed up for Xbox Live then you must have agreed to the terms of service.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/legal/

Check out section 8: USE OF COMMUNICATION FACILITIES
"Your use of the Service is subject to the Code of Conduct. You also agree not to do any of the following while being connected to the Service:
-Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
-Publish, distribute, or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent, or unlawful topic, name, material, file or information..."

it goes on like that for a while dealing with virtually every form of expression available on Xbox live. This isn't about big government or the constitution, it's about a written agreement between individuals and service providers. When you sign up for a social network you become part of the product and the network owner reserves the right to cut you out if damage the experience for everyone else. If you don't like it, find another network, start your own, or do without.

You also have the right to complain, because, hey, you might just have a point there and you may be part of an under served market. The bottom line is that if you wanted to trash talk, why did you promise that you wouldn't?
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Posted: Jun 26th 2008 8:49AM (Unverified) said

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Thank you for this.

Posted: Jun 26th 2008 10:03AM (Unverified) said

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The thing that people seem to miss about the online chat systems. Is you are technically not in public. The chat system on a game is actually considered private. The company that hosts the system is allowing you in, and allowing you to use their service. If they feel the need to kick/ban/warn you for abusive language it is well within their right to do so. It is the same thing as the owner of bar or restaurant throwing you out for bad behavior.

Posted: Jun 26th 2008 3:08PM (Unverified) said

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you are so right! But, how do we muscle all this info into the thick heads of the people who keep trying to throw up that weak defense?

And, since it seems we're going that route, what can Microsoft do to help clean up this mess. Can we ban? Can we have service suspended? All seem like good ideas to me.

Posted: Jun 30th 2008 1:12AM (Unverified) said

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Jolly good show, I am new to the blogging scene and I have never seen such an intelligently written post.
That's a kat that knows where his towel is!

Posted: Jun 30th 2008 11:20PM (Unverified) said

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In some states they still regulate the use of mature language in the presents of women and children. (any women of older age or not, and children under the legal age of alcohol consumption) So in this case the state official can perquisite and govern over the use of public commutations in the presents of certain audience.

So if you are playing a mature rated game that an 90 year old women or a 16yr (sorry guys but you fall under this law!)boy can not play, then you are free to voice your option and release that much needed rage.

Our Government believes in the equality of rights, not the free use of the such rights! Although they have failed in both genres.

Oh and not to mention the size of a modern bill compared to old school four pages! THESE FUCKERS ARE LIKE VOLUMES! For all we know there just may be a place that reads of our vocal restrictions.

Posted: Jul 2nd 2008 1:43PM (Unverified) said

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Mark, Good point with this article. I wanted to expand and point out something else: The First Amendment is not absolute.

First, Freedom of Speech rights apply only to government action, which you've pointed out.

But even ignoring that, the government has the right to regulate speech, provided the law passes a strict scrutiny standard. That means that the law must serve a compelling government interest. It must also be narrowly tailored to that interest and be the least restrictive alternative available.

The law gets a lot more complicated than just that brief paragraph when you start breaking down public forums and limited public forums, etc.

Furthermore, the law has never been extended to protect so-called "fighting words."

So the long and the short of it is that the government could regulate free speech if could pass the strict scrutiny standard.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2008 4:40AM (Unverified) said

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Good piece. Those who claim that they have certain 'rights' and are being 'censored' are invariably mindless blowhards.

On a pedantic note the European Convention for Human Rights is not an instrument of the EU, and its enforcement is usually done through the domestic courts within Europe. All the EU Members States are signatories of the Convention, but it is an instrument of the Council of Europe http://www.coe.int/

Posted: Jul 8th 2008 1:34AM (Unverified) said

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Why are you guys fighting
http://www.ag-anwaltspraxis.ch

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