Fallout 3 producer finds Diablo 3 design 'conservative'

by Jason Dobson { Jul 1st 2008 at 5:55PM }

While the ballyhoo around Blizzard's announcement of Diablo 3 kept us all sleep deprived and glued to our screens this last weekend, some were left not as impressed as others. And by some, we mean Fallout 3 production director Ashley Cheng, who feels the series' third trip to the well is too 'conservative.'

"I must say," wrote Cheng on his blog, "I am disappointed that Blizzard has stayed on the conservative side in terms of design with their updates to Diablo and Starcraft." However, he tempered his displeasure with a measure of excitement, writing that he "loved" the game's destructible environments and that the vaunted action RPG looks "pretty amazing." Even so, take heed, dear Blizzard. Try not to be so restrained when you finally get around to revisiting Starcraft: Ghost; we think casting Nova in a post-apocalyptic wasteland is a guaranteed way to win our hearts.

Tags: bethesda, blizzard, diablo-3, diablo3, fallout, fallout-3, fallout3

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Jerk Face @ Jul 1st 2008 6:02PM

I thought it was pretty 'Meh'tastic™ myself. I don't want to sound like a hater, but it just didn't impress me at all.

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 6:37PM

I guess if you didn't like the two original games, you might not like this... but "meh-tastic?" That's bordering on an unacceptable amount of douche-baggery.

The screenshots look almost like they've been painted (and yes, screenshots... not concept art). With classic Diablo gameplay and randomized dungeons. How can you go wrong there?

mirage @ Jul 1st 2008 7:23PM

I loved Diablo 1 and 2. That said I would have to agree with Jerk face. That does not mean I think the games will be bad, but it sure looks a lot like Diablo 2!

NoHitHair @ Jul 1st 2008 8:00PM

Diablo III doesn't appear all too fantastic or special and in that regard, I can agree with Cheng that Blizzard has held back far too much in their design.

However, his lumping in of Starcraft II is unwarranted. Not only is it necessary for that game to remain firmly tied to its roots (due to how phenomenally balanced the first game was and in deference to all the SC veterans) but I think they've done a remarkable job of updating enough to satiate the "newness" gamers desire.

aristokrat @ Jul 1st 2008 9:33PM

One can only hope that the actual quote from Cheng's mouth was:

This game had me at Destructible envviroments. Clowing up your own base has never been so much fun!

t_m @ Jul 2nd 2008 1:26AM

me too.
The graphics, animation and worlds look nice... but gameplay wise the only change seems to be "we've added health pickps".

MN Guy @ Jul 2nd 2008 9:53AM

The gameplay video would leave anyone unfamiliar with the Diablo franchise very unimpressed. Yes, it is still early, but seriously nothing in there jumped out at me and it all looked like a generic dungeon crawler with WOW art direction.

With that said, I am very stoked for this game because it is Blizzard and the other Diablo games rocked.

SugarDaddy @ Jul 2nd 2008 10:11AM

Jumping to defense, you people are a bunch of asses.

"It looks like Diablo 2" -- No shit. And Diablo 2 looked like Diablo 1. And every freakin sequel looked like the one before it. What's your point exactly?

Not only that, but this is a tiny reveal. The gameplay HAS changed. They showed that with being able to put all of your abilities in the shortcut menu there. Plus we don't know how the mana and health system is going to work other than they got rid of (or severely limited the need for) the potions -- another big change.

Also, this is a full 3D environment so it DOESN'T look like Diablo 2 which used sprites. Include destructible environments and more interaction with the world and that's another pretty big improvement. Also you can see that your attacks have a much greater effect on the enemies other than just sound.

Also they only revealed 2 of the 5 characters. Also, you can play male or female. Jeez, I can go on and on.

Some people...

Titanium_Orchid @ Jul 1st 2008 6:09PM

There is a petition floating around somewhere on the interwebz for Blizzard to make Diablo 3 more "dark."

I don't know why everybody is getting so worked up over this. Since Warcraft 3 Blizzard seems like they have found an art style that they enjoy using. Get over it people. This is how they choose to present their games.

Artistic styling will effect the gameplay.

Titanium_Orchid @ Jul 1st 2008 6:13PM

Note: This is more a rant about the online petition found here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html

Not so much about the article above. Sorry.

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 6:32PM

I think the dungeons look considerably dark... these people are probably just pissed about the outdoor areas. I think they are a welcome alternative to the depressing town in Diablo 1.

I'm kind of a fan of Dungeon Siege too though, so maybe that's why I don't mind a bit of outdoors now and then in my dungeon crawlers .

Lars @ Jul 1st 2008 6:45PM

Well, it looked dark enough for me. I was worried about it becoming too stylized and cartoony (like WoW), since Blizzard is making this one. If you recall, Blizzard North (which has kind of unofficially become Flagship Studios) was the company that made Diablo 2.

Spartacus @ Jul 1st 2008 7:08PM

And rightly so. Take a look at the D3 forums on battle.net- there's a 17 page thread of people upset about the art direction Diablo III is taking and many other separate threads stating the same thing.

D3's concept art looks drastically different from the gameplay video. D1 and D2 were darker, starker, bloodier and SCARIER than that gameplay video. Remember that Diablo is a HORROR action RPG- it should not look or play ANYTHING like WoW or WarCraft III.

Unfortunately someone else here said it- Blizzard found a very marketable art style with WC3 and WoW and have applied that art style to their other upcoming IP's. This of course is a very BAD idea. They are totally separate, totally different and totally unique IPs. Blizzard's games haven't looked similar in the past, why should they now?

Diablo II did not resemble StarCraft or WarCraft II in any way, shape or form. Diablo III should be just as distinctly different.

Magetto @ Jul 1st 2008 7:08PM

It's not that it's not grim dark enough, it's just the 'Craft art style that Blizz has come up with doesn't fit Diablo. Everything is too clean, crisp, and cartoony. I just don't get the vibe that I'm fighting some impossible to beat evil that has corrupted and done horrible things to world when everything is just so clean, bright, and colorful.

As such everything else about Diablo 3 looks fantastic, and I look forward to when it comes out. I'm just disappointed they went with the 'Craft style.

Titanium_Orchid @ Jul 1st 2008 7:14PM

I meant to say "Artistic styling will not effect gameplay"

I've been dropping the ball all over the place today.

Spartacus @ Jul 1st 2008 7:20PM

Lars,

About that... Look at this screenshot:

http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/screenshots/ss9-hires.jpg

That "hero" (warrior? barbarian?) and that environment look decidely WoWish. But you're right, Blizzard's Diablo team left, so we're stuck with sloppy seconds from the WoW team who've been working on WarCraft so long they have no idea how to create anything different.

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 7:28PM

If you think this game looks like WoW, you obviously don't play WoW.

You can pick out one or two screenshots where things look *slightly* WoW-ish... but overall, this game definitely has a style all its own, and isn't going to be WoW: Single Player Edition.

Spartacus @ Jul 1st 2008 7:39PM

Titanium_Orchid:

"Art style does not affect gameplay."

Not directly, but how effective would the Resident Evil series have been if the art style from Mario Kart was used? How about Silent Hill with the art style from Pokemon?

Horror games, more than any other genre, rely on atmoshphere, setting and ambience. Diablo therefore cannot look ANYTHING like WoW, which was Candyland with elves.

Lijik @ Jul 1st 2008 7:44PM

Actually, I trust Team Silent enough to make a capable cartoon horror game. Anyways, I never really felt much horror in D2 (maybe theres some in D1? Never played that one) so I'm not getting the hubbub about the 'Craft art direction other than the fact that it quite simply isn't as good as the originals.

Spartacus @ Jul 1st 2008 7:56PM

Marty,

If you think D3 looks more like D2 than WoW, you've never played D2. And yes, I have played WoW. I gave it up after 3 months and had a lvl 50 human warrior and a lvl 28 night elf priest. But I'm not saying D3 is single player WoW (besides, D3 IS multiplayer), I'm just saying that it is much less gruesome, bloody, gothic and scary than its predacessors. There's virtually not a single blood spatter ANYWHERE in either the gameplay vid or the screenshots. Compare that to D2 where corpses litter the ground, blood and guts everywhere with fear in every shadow. Check out this thread and some of the comparison pics for reference:

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d3-general&t=223&p=1&#post223

Titanium_Orchid @ Jul 1st 2008 8:01PM

@Spartacus

Your right, setting and atmosphere do contribute a lot to a horror game. I think that there are more important things though. The unknown is scary. Feeling helpless is scary.

I think it it completely possible to make a horror game using a Mario-esq art style.

The designers may have to try a lot harder but I still think its possible.

(I'm thinking about Luigi's Haunted Mansion as I'm talking. Just to give you an idea of where my opinion is coming from)

343 Guilty Fart @ Jul 1st 2008 8:07PM

I'd like to see some more next-gen grays and browns. And then some more gray... and some more brown.

Titanium_Orchid @ Jul 1st 2008 8:09PM

Just looked at the screens found in the forum link. In terms of what I prefer, I leaning 70% towards the modified images.

That being said, I don't think that one version looks more horrific than another.

Spartacus @ Jul 1st 2008 8:20PM

Titanium_Orchid,

I agree that there are other factors involved besides atmosphere in the horror genre, but I disagree that any other factor would be "more important".

No horror game/movie developer in their right mind would opt for a cartoonish, bright, sunny, cheerful style if they were trying to scare the pants off you. Sunshine and lolipops just aren't scary.

But I see what you're saying, I just don't think Lugi's haunted mansion had the same effect as BioShock on anyone ;-)

Vidikron (FU) @ Jul 1st 2008 8:56PM

Anyone else think it's funny that gamers are always complaing about overuse of browns and grays... yet when a game does use some color, they start complaining about it being too chearful?

I have to admit though, at first glance, some comparison shots do look good. But the more I looked at them I couldn't decide if they actually were better. I mean, do I really want to look at a bunch of fricking grays and a stupid grain filter for hours upon hours? Maybe Blizzard should tone down the colors here and there, but I don't know about the hardcore blandness of those touched-up shots.

Upthorn @ Jul 2nd 2008 9:15AM

People are so worked up over the art style because it is Ugly. It's also way too cartoony for the Diablo setting.
Basically, there's a problem a game sequel doesn't look half as good as it's 10-year old predecessor did. Considering that the new sequel is likely going to require fast 3D acceleration with pixel shading and all that jazz, it should look at least as good as the old games, and it definitely doesn't.

Shagittarius @ Jul 1st 2008 6:09PM

Seeing as how Hellgate: London was received I'm not surprised to see blizzard playing it conservative. I think Hellgate was a pretty good picture of where diablo type games were going but it was fumbled by the dev. But EA probably soiled 3rd person diablo style games so.....

I am rambling...If fallout 3 turns out to be like hellgate they may wish they optted for a more conservative revision.

StuScotsLazyEye @ Jul 1st 2008 6:11PM

I also found it "meh."

I might have a problem with this game if I feel like I'm playing WoW. It's something I DO NOT WANT.

Lars @ Jul 1st 2008 6:47PM

I'm surprised you would think it'd be much different than WoW, since WoW just took Diablo 2's mechanics and slapped on Warcraft lore.

Exo @ Jul 1st 2008 6:17PM

maybe he thinks conservative means "not a plastic looking piece of shit like fallout"

seriously, until Bethesda gets their shaders looking right they have no room to talk about any other game

Devon @ Jul 1st 2008 6:36PM

That's a nonsensical reply. Until the guys at GameInformer make a game, what right do they have to judge anyone else? If you want to argue that he's wrong, fine, but don't use that kind of BS non-logic to back up your feelings.

tmacairjordan87 @ Jul 1st 2008 6:18PM

Granted, I've never played a diablo game before but the gameplay trailer for 3 managed to convince me to buy it. Then I downloaded the demo for 2 and couldn't play it for more than 10 minutes because how ugly and dark it was.

Neptune @ Jul 1st 2008 7:23PM

Well it is an old game and you can increase the gamma to make it a bit brighter.

Darth Abe @ Jul 1st 2008 6:27PM

I have to agree with this guy, I actually felt the same about starcraft 2. Especially considering how long a wait it is for these titles, it looks like they're producing the same game with new graphics.

Dan @ Jul 1st 2008 6:31PM

If its not broken don't fix it.

The original style worked flawlessly, and with new additions to the overall gameplay its only gotten better. Besides the games will be also more known for their story behind the game in single player more then anything.

Your not gonna see a overhaul of change to begin with anyway,,, they are sequels for a reason.

tc @ Jul 1st 2008 6:46PM

If it isn't broken don't fix it?

My old dell dimension l800r ain't broken, but i expect something better when i buy a new pc.

But thats just general shit stirring, I actually don't mind the way they're heading with Diablo.

LaughingTarget @ Jul 1st 2008 7:19PM

When someone says "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" you can expect them to be out of a job in a few months. Successful people break the thing and put it back together even better.

Ford said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

PanAm said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Woolworth's said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

See the pattern? Those companies either don't exist anymore or are getting destroyed by the competition.

If Blizzard decides to rest on its laurels, I'll quickly dump them into the pile of other developers I used to follow yet don't anymore.

Vidikron (FU) @ Jul 1st 2008 11:21PM

New Coke vs Classic Coke

Sometimes the old adage is true.

db @ Jul 1st 2008 6:29PM

The game looks incredible to me and I can't wait to see the items and more spells. I even played a little D2 for nostalgia's sake last night.

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 6:31PM

I'm probably going to re-install and play it sometime tonight. Good game!

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 6:30PM

I thought Diablo 3 looks excellent! Who cares if it doesn't deviate too much from the path it carved out originally? The two existing games are awesome. There's no need to change the formula too much when it's not broken to begin with... especially when nobody has come up with a really decent alternative since.

Fallout looks like a re-skinned Oblivion anyway. XD

Dan @ Jul 1st 2008 6:34PM

You took the words right out of my mouth. The originals were perfect back then and since then there has been very little or no alternatives. "f$%king A" these games will be

Marty @ Jul 1st 2008 6:38PM

My greatest fear was that it would be an MMO. I'm glad they kept it mostly as is, from the looks of it. That's what makes it Diablo, after all!

brandon @ Jul 1st 2008 6:34PM

Surely I am not the only one who read this news as "Fallout 3 wasn't designed conservatively enough?"

Arturo @ Jul 1st 2008 6:33PM

i signed teh petition, however little hope it may have, and the comparison pics are pretty though provoking i must say. diablo = hell/demons, right? me wants more scary theme

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/frostwake/Diablo31.jpg

Kael @ Jul 1st 2008 8:34PM

Whoa, that screenshot looks fantastic. I was on the fence just now about the art direction, but seriously, that darker version of the screenshot is... really much better.

Oh, man. I didn't want to be part of the whiner camp, but, but... just look at it; that's really cool.