There's a really interesting discussion going on in the comments section at Braid designer Jonathan Blow's official blog, as he attempts to explain why he's a bit disappointed the game has to arrive for 1200 ($15), rather than the 800 ($10) points he would have preferred.
Though he says Microsoft pushed the $15 price point, he admits he's also got his own financial concerns to consider that make the price a lot more palatable. Blow also says he's worried about ending up like Jeff Minter, who wanted his game Space Giraffe affordably priced but didn't recoup enough as a result. It's a surprisingly frank discussion, and one well worth checking out.
Reader Comments (66)
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:43PM (Unverified) said
OK, we get it! You think is sucks. How many more posts are you gonna make about it? You even went to X3F.com to simply say it sucks. Get over it! Go put an add in the newspaper or something but stop posting it here. I myself and many other might enjoy this title.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:46PM ZenGaijin said
Nobody's forcing you to read my comments. Also, my opinion doesn't effect your opinion of the game for you does it? No, it doesn't.
Me not enjoying it doesn't mean you cannot. So grow up and if you don't like my comments don't read them. Simple as that.
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Me not enjoying it doesn't mean you cannot. So grow up and if you don't like my comments don't read them. Simple as that.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:53PM (Unverified) said
Agreed, now I'll just add you to my (skip this guys comments) list whenever I see one of your wonderful posts.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:58PM CommentSystem said
and u can skip over the articles if u dont like it, so practice what you preach.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:25PM ZenGaijin said
I have never outright said the game sucks. I said in my opinion its not something I see the appeal in. I don't get why everyone takes someone not liking something as much as they do as a personal attack.
If you like Braid more power to you. Enjoy the game why do you care what I have to say about it? It's nothing against Braid or anyone that likes the game I (as in myself alone)don't see what the big fuss is about.
So why spend/waste time trying to convince me otherwise if you enjoy it?
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If you like Braid more power to you. Enjoy the game why do you care what I have to say about it? It's nothing against Braid or anyone that likes the game I (as in myself alone)don't see what the big fuss is about.
So why spend/waste time trying to convince me otherwise if you enjoy it?
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:35PM (Unverified) said
Oh really? You've never outright said it sucked? Then who the hell wrote this?
"Also, I think Braid sucks....that is all."
Dude, that is PHAIL right there. P H A I L!!! Oops, forgot you were on my list. I shouldn't have even read that nonsense.
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"Also, I think Braid sucks....that is all."
Dude, that is PHAIL right there. P H A I L!!! Oops, forgot you were on my list. I shouldn't have even read that nonsense.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:40PM ZenGaijin said
Dude, whatever. Obviously me not liking this game somehow effects your quality of life which is why you feel the need to jump down my throat about not liking it.
So Braids great its awesome! Do you feel better now? Is your day or mind somehow eased by some validating your purchase because they agree with you? I hope so...
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So Braids great its awesome! Do you feel better now? Is your day or mind somehow eased by some validating your purchase because they agree with you? I hope so...
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:52PM (Unverified) said
Seriously man, all I was just trying to say was relax. There was no need for crapping on the game as much as you did. What did YOU achieve? Did that make YOU feel better and YOUR day more pleasant?
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 4:11PM jhowlett said
what sucks is he said it sucks that the creator doesn't have more say in pricing. he said he didn't think the game was great but he doesn't have to like everything. i can't find him harping doom and gloom on the game from a quick glance through his post history.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:41PM rivaldi22 said
I might buy this JUST to support the guy. I liked the demo, though thought it was a bit much. Hearing that he really would have liked it to be 10 instead of 15 is nice to hear.
PA's game, while still great, was 20, and they were pretty unapologetic about it. I think it's worth 20, but this bit with Braid helps to show that he really wasn't in it to make a profit, just to recoup losses and get it out there.
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PA's game, while still great, was 20, and they were pretty unapologetic about it. I think it's worth 20, but this bit with Braid helps to show that he really wasn't in it to make a profit, just to recoup losses and get it out there.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:07PM rivaldi22 said
True, RELATIVELY it's a big increase, but it's not a great ABSOLUTE increase. Considering that the increase is the same as a deli sandwich, I don't struggle as hard to reason acquiescing to the price.
It's definitely a personal decision, with the discretion left to each's own.
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It's definitely a personal decision, with the discretion left to each's own.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:10PM (Unverified) said
You can't really compare it to PA's game, the price for their game is much more reasonable if you take in mind all the resources to make it...
Seriously, how can you compare a company to a 1-man team?
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Seriously, how can you compare a company to a 1-man team?
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:17PM baby sea tuna said
Good point. If anything Blow deserves *more* money than Hothead if he ended up making the game by himself! On top of that, his name is Blow...which, along with hookers, is what he should be spending his extra $5 per unit on!
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:19PM rivaldi22 said
I wasn't comparing their games, I was comparing their approaches to consumer's disappointment. I was saying that Blow handled it a bit better, in my opinion.
Where PA were like "It's worth it, go fuck yourselves," where Blow was like "I wanted it to be 10, but I'm fucking poor and made the game by myself, cut me some slack, plz."
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Where PA were like "It's worth it, go fuck yourselves," where Blow was like "I wanted it to be 10, but I'm fucking poor and made the game by myself, cut me some slack, plz."
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 4:51PM (Unverified) said
Duke,
The game has NO real value. You can not sell it so you're analogy is useless. It isn't stocks. The game is not WORTH 10 dollars and it's not WORTH 15. It, however, COSTS what it COSTS.
And to work with your lame logic, the game costs 1/4 of what games now cost retail. No tax and can buy it immediately and play it 15 minutes later. The game takes at least 5 hours to beat the first time... if you're darn smart. 5 * 4 = 20 hours of gameplay if it cost 60 bucks.
That's longer than it took me to beat cod4 and gears of war combined.
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The game has NO real value. You can not sell it so you're analogy is useless. It isn't stocks. The game is not WORTH 10 dollars and it's not WORTH 15. It, however, COSTS what it COSTS.
And to work with your lame logic, the game costs 1/4 of what games now cost retail. No tax and can buy it immediately and play it 15 minutes later. The game takes at least 5 hours to beat the first time... if you're darn smart. 5 * 4 = 20 hours of gameplay if it cost 60 bucks.
That's longer than it took me to beat cod4 and gears of war combined.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:43PM (Unverified) said
You know how you can end up not pulling a Space Giraffe?
Make a better game than Space Giraffe.
I didn't care how much Minter whined. All I knew was that I paid for his game and I didn't like it.
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Make a better game than Space Giraffe.
I didn't care how much Minter whined. All I knew was that I paid for his game and I didn't like it.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:46PM Shogan said
I think he could make more money selling the game for $10 than 15. At $10, I'd have surely given it a chance, but $15 is a turn-off. I know it's not his fault, and it's Microsoft trying to make more money with ALL the XBLA titles, but it is what it is. Sorry dude.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:59PM chrisgrant said
Well, that's the movie theater popcorn dilemma. I don't think it's that clear cut – also, we'll never know which is the case. For the reviews the game is getting, $15 sounds like a reasonable price and that's probably one reason why MS thought it could charge more.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:18PM (Unverified) said
But Chris, one of the problems is that companies such as PA and Insomniac are releasing digitally distributed games for almost the same price, and according to reviewers/screens/videos they seem to have higher production values than Braid
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:42PM ludwigk said
Everybody always says "lower price = more customers = win", but you are ignoring the fact that there is an optimal price point, and it is not always the fabulously affordable "what I think its worth" price that gamers have in their heads.
If Jonathan ends up selling 9000 copies at $15, but he would have sold 10,000 at $10, and say 13,000 at $5 then that price decrease just cost him $35000. An additional price cut would cost him another $20000.
At $15, more of his customers are going to end up feeling that it wasn't "worth" the full amount, but he still ends up banking more dough, which in turn allows him to keep going as an indie dev.
The fact is, there is not an infinite population of indie gamers that his XBLA title will appeal to. Meaning that his sales will be less flexible to price changes.
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If Jonathan ends up selling 9000 copies at $15, but he would have sold 10,000 at $10, and say 13,000 at $5 then that price decrease just cost him $35000. An additional price cut would cost him another $20000.
At $15, more of his customers are going to end up feeling that it wasn't "worth" the full amount, but he still ends up banking more dough, which in turn allows him to keep going as an indie dev.
The fact is, there is not an infinite population of indie gamers that his XBLA title will appeal to. Meaning that his sales will be less flexible to price changes.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:57PM Jude said
This was a pass for me when all I had was screenshots to go on and until I read articles that explained the game-play in a deeper manner. I'll be picking this up whenever I get reconnected to live.
I don't base my purchases solely on Review scores, but A "9" from Edge is a feat in and of itself.
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I don't base my purchases solely on Review scores, but A "9" from Edge is a feat in and of itself.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:34PM Shagittarius said
Edge hands out 9s like theres no tomorrow WTF are you talking about?
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 2:59PM copa said
I love how when people complain about crap like horse armor that gets posted on XBLM, Microsoft says, "Don't blame us. We just host a marketplace for people to sell their shit."
But if a developer once to actually test free market principles by using a lower price to move more product, Microsoft says, "Fuck that. You're not charging enough."
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But if a developer once to actually test free market principles by using a lower price to move more product, Microsoft says, "Fuck that. You're not charging enough."
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:00PM samfish said
Wasn't the consensus on Space Giraffe that it sucked or at least was kind of niche?
...not that a platform/puzzle hybrid isn't niche, either.
Anyway, $15 bucks isn't a bad price to me if there's enough content. If you can beat the game in like 2 or 3 hours, sure it's a rip. But if it's a 15 hour game, I don't mind paying $15 dollars.
Assuming I actually like the game in question, of course.
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...not that a platform/puzzle hybrid isn't niche, either.
Anyway, $15 bucks isn't a bad price to me if there's enough content. If you can beat the game in like 2 or 3 hours, sure it's a rip. But if it's a 15 hour game, I don't mind paying $15 dollars.
Assuming I actually like the game in question, of course.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:11PM (Unverified) said
Am I the only one that thinks relating this to Space Giraffe is weird? I mean who was waiting on bated breath for that game. Most of my friends were excited to hear about Braid and thought Minter's game was a joke.
I'm also putting this out here: if you liked the demo, but are getting hung up on the price, rumor has it that Target will have 1600 pt cards for 14.99 next week. Save up those pennies kids.
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I'm also putting this out here: if you liked the demo, but are getting hung up on the price, rumor has it that Target will have 1600 pt cards for 14.99 next week. Save up those pennies kids.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:26PM HighFiveJesus said
The best indie game i ever bought was Aquaria. i dunno about this game, but i do hate the title.
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Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:20PM Altairio said
So here's the new formula for XBLA success...
Create a pricing controversy to get the blogs buzzing about your game.
Deny you have any say in the price so you come off as the good guy.
Mention how you owe people money.
Compare your game to critical darlings like Psychonauts & BG&E.
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Create a pricing controversy to get the blogs buzzing about your game.
Deny you have any say in the price so you come off as the good guy.
Mention how you owe people money.
Compare your game to critical darlings like Psychonauts & BG&E.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:36PM Shagittarius said
This game suffers from the same problems that other cult classics have suffered from such as Psychonaughts and Beyond good and evil. That being the character design is insipid and a huge turn off to me.
Add this to the list of games I wont even check out due to shit character design. Seriously, a guy wearing a tie? Fuck, at least make it a keyboard tie.
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Add this to the list of games I wont even check out due to shit character design. Seriously, a guy wearing a tie? Fuck, at least make it a keyboard tie.
Posted: Aug 6th 2008 3:37PM (Unverified) said
Remember the days when side-scrollers like this cost $60 and could be finished in an afternoon if you put your mind to it?
Makes the complaining about the $15 price sound a wee bit like whining.
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Makes the complaining about the $15 price sound a wee bit like whining.
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