Blow explains dilemma of Braid's price to 1Up
Blow explains if the game maintained sales among a niche audience at 800 points he would be "bankrupt or in debt." Then again, if Braid sells moderately well -- and if the buzz over the title keeps going, it should -- he says he could have stuck it out at 800 points and then the game would have probably sold even better. Check out the developer's dilemma in the video after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
syrik zero @ Aug 7th 2008 8:49PM
Looks like he is sucking air c**k
nsdcx @ Aug 7th 2008 9:01PM
its a biggie too!
sifer2400 @ Aug 7th 2008 9:27PM
and at certain point he is handling some Air Balls lawl but yea the game looks very interesting im gona play the demo and probably buy it even tho it is so expensive
wakachamo @ Aug 7th 2008 9:32PM
That's why his name is Jonathan BLOW.
Obie @ Aug 7th 2008 9:55PM
"That's why his name is Jonathan BLOW."
Heh, that guy must've had an awful time in high school with a name like that.
Smoke_Dawg_187 @ Aug 8th 2008 12:57AM
+1
Great observation! I'm LOLing
BananaBoat @ Aug 8th 2008 2:57AM
They probably called him BJ for short, even though it's backwards.
I feel for him, although we did have one Asian scholarship kid at my highschool that was named Phuck. Kid took a ton of Sh*t
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 9:06PM
He has pretty circular logic. It has to be $15 in case no one buys the game. But if it's $10 more people will be willing to buy the game. And he keeps saying, "Let's see how this sells," as if the game's price can drop if people buy enough of it. But if it sells really well, the price WON'T go down. I'm not sure what he's trying to do here in terms of justifying the $15 tag.
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 9:13PM
And the fact that it's a one-man team doesn't mean the game should sell for more. It makes sense to the solo developer but not to the consumers. If he will be "broke" if the game only sells at $10, which is the sweet spot for XBLA games, then he did not financially plan this correctly from the beginning.
It's a shame it's tough to develop independently in the game industry but that doesn't change the fact that gamers are only willing to pay so much for a XBLA game, especially if it's short. He's apparently broke but so am I, which means I can't afford a game that could pay for two meals if it will only last a little while. As much as I like the demo.
copa @ Aug 7th 2008 9:38PM
Look, at the end of the day this only mattered if the game ended up being mediocre to good, like I thought it might be.
But this game is really, really good. Probably a top 5 game of the year. And at that point, who cares about the difference between $10 and $15? Most of us would have paid $15 for Portal. And a $5 price difference wouldn't have stopped most of us from buying Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, or Rock Band.
I think the Braid price stories have been pretty played out at this point, and I hope we can talk more about the impact of Braid on games in general. For people who download the demo and experienced the game the way I experienced it, the "$10 or $15" issue has become a moot point.
Phillip @ Aug 7th 2008 9:43PM
"He has pretty circular logic. It has to be $15 in case no one buys the game. But if it's $10 more people will be willing to buy the game."
Well, I think the idea is that they haven't advertised much and they _think_ this game will appeal to a niche audience. The difference between $10 and $15 won't affect that "hard-core" (if you will) audience (like me).
On the other hand, if now that the game is released lots and lots of people love it and buy it, then it is obviously isn't a niche game and it appeals to a more "normal" casual audience. Dropping the price from $15 to $10 will likely result in more of _this_ audience buying the game.
So, yeah. If the game has mass appeal and sells a lot, the price may drop to get even more people to buy. But if the game keeps with a select audience, it will stay the current $15.
Hope that makes at least some sense. :-)
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 9:50PM
@Phillip: I don't think that's how it works. It's simple supply/demand. If there's enough demand, there's no way the game price will drop, because enough people are willing to pay for the higher price. Only if the game DOESN'T sell will the price drop. Or if the sales slow down. Look at "Greatest Hits" and "Platinum Hits." If those "hits" would sell right now at full price, would they have been placed under the GH or PH price?
Plus, dropping the price suddenly after enough people have paid for the game just angers those masses that paid the original $15. Only until you have slwo demand for a product is it beneficial to drop the price.
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 9:54PM
@copa: The price tag matters because it will set precedent for further XBLA titles. And a $5 difference can really make or break purchases. There was already a discussion about this before. Relatively speaking, $5 is a lot when comparing $10 and $15. I think the game looks awesome and I would really like to play it, but I feel I can get a lot more for $15. We're not even talking about physical, hard copies of games here. We're talking about invisible, digital content tied to an online account.
Courtney @ Aug 7th 2008 9:55PM
You seem to have a real problem with the pricing of this game. It's one of the finest offerings so far released on any of the console downloadable services: PSN, XBLA or WiiWare. You can make a lot of arguments about pricing, but it's common for the best products to be priced higher. Its review scores are trouncing 95+ percent of the scores of any other XBLA game. You pay for quality, ergo, this costs more than many other games. Perhaps he was more interested in delivering a quality game than rushing it out a year early to save money. That's a pleasant surprise in the gaming industry, because we're all so happy when a developer hurries a game out to save money.
As for your argument that if it sells well, the price won't drop, that kind of goes against the history of both retail and downloadable games. The best selling disc games do get a price drop when they are re-released as a Greatest Hit. XBLA has a greatest hits collection already where several games have had their prices dropped. The PSN has run sales on its best selling titles.
And who defines the "sweet spot" at $10? This will be the third game on XBLA I've paid more than $10 for (Penny Arcarde, Puzzle Quest and Braid). I've had zero problem with the pricing of any of them because they appealed to me. If it takes more time or resources to produce a good game, I can handle a few extra bucks for something better than the mountain of trash for sale at $5 and $10.
Obie @ Aug 7th 2008 9:56PM
Simple. If braid were $10 I would've bought it, since it's $15 I have not...and I am not the only one.
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 10:06PM
@Courtney: I'm glad you feel that the price is justified and you're one of those people who are willing to put down $10+ for a digitally distributed game that you can never resell or play on a different console or account other than your own. I'm just not one of those people.
As for the "history of retail," I already explained the Greatest Hits part. Games become GH not because they are best-selling, but because their sales have slowed enough that it becomes necessary to attempt to milk more money before they completely die off. Sure, there are best-sellers that become GH. But not until their sales have slowed enough. Don't be fooled by the term "Greatest" hits.
copa @ Aug 7th 2008 10:06PM
"I feel I can get a lot more for $15."
If you have played the demo and feel this way, we're going to have to respectfully disagree here. If you have not played the demo, then go download it now.
There is nothing else that has come out this year for $15 or less that is good as this game. Maybe you feel that getting a longer, mediocre game is a better value, but I don't.
This does not set a precedent for pricing all XBLA games at $15. I have not bought any other XBLA games this year because I have already established I won't pay for crap. This only sets a precedent that price elasticity is high for truly original, quality titles.
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 10:12PM
@copa: I did say in my first comment, "As much as I like the demo." So I have played it. And I loved it and I think I would like the game. I just don't have much money so I am picky about what games I actually buy. I can be less picky if they are cheaper. Maybe this just means that I have less money than people like you and Courtney. *shrugs*
AoE @ Aug 7th 2008 10:23PM
So one can safely assume that you really don't buy games at all then? Sure $15 is more than the normal price point for an XBLA game... but c'mon, Braid's very well made; I'm guessing in your life you've bought at least a few crappy retail titles for full price, without benefit of a demo?
And for the record, gamers ARE willing to pay more for arcade titles; I mean the Penny Arcade game didn't exactly suffer from being $20, did it?
Also... please don't assume you know what all gamers feel. I'm MUCH happier giving an indie dev money than I am, say, EA. I evaluate all arcade releases & their associated price points based on the game's merits rather than some arbitrary "well the majority are priced 800 MSP, so all games must fall into that price point" bs that you're on about.
Courtney @ Aug 7th 2008 10:27PM
I took awhile to write my response, so missed your comment on the GH line. You're right that they drop the price because sales slow, but the fact is that the price drops. No one expects a price to drop right away for a good game.
As for being okay with digital distribution, you're right, I am fine with it. If XBLA or PSN games were received traditional retail releases, they wouldn't be $5, $10 or $15 brand new. I think $20-$30 would be the more likely price if you were buying them on disc. Whatever I lose by not being able to sell them or give them away, I gain by the lower price. So long as this continues, I'm fine with it. And digital distribution gives opportunities to developers like Blow that they otherwise would never have. I seriously doubt Braid would have been made last console generation. There wouldn't have been a distribution model to support it outside of the PC. I'm excited that small developers have the opportunity to market and develop for a platform other than the PC. In order to make that feasible, I think it requires digital distribution.
vidGuy @ Aug 7th 2008 10:28PM
Actually, Saria, his explanation makes perfect sense. Start the product at the high price - if it sells, great; if not, lower the price. What Blow is trying to say is that he didn't want to miss out on potential revenue that would have been lost if the game was $10 and sold really well. Can't say I blame the guy, the game is great.
miyagi @ Aug 7th 2008 10:41PM
"I'm glad you feel that the price is justified and you're one of those people who are willing to put down $10+ for a digitally distributed game that you can never resell or play on a different console or account other than your own. I'm just not one of those people."
I guess you would call all of Steam a ripoff then since it's 100% digital. I will just respectfully disagree and say that if the game is quality and worth the price then I'll pay for it. If it's not then I won't. Pretty simple.
browntown @ Aug 7th 2008 10:52PM
people were bitching about warhawks price, and someone at 1up deducted a point cuz it wasn't 30 bucks. SONY had to make some money back there, but people were still angry. Now its okay cuz the prices for those games are constant at 40 bucks (except tekken DR which was 20 bucks), but arcade games like that need to stay at 10 bucks. Just like every psn arcade game is 10 bucks or less. Prices should be consistant. Though 15 bucks is not biggie, but still, other devs may start charging 15 bucks. SFHD better be 10 bucks, though i bet capcom will try to capatilize on it so i expect 15 to 20 bucks.
Saria the Cat @ Aug 7th 2008 11:21PM
@VidGuy: That makes perfect sense. The problem is, he is attempting to reassure customers about the pricing in some way. He should just own up to the fact that he is trying to make as much money as possible, not that he wishes it was a lower price but "oh well, sorry guys."
@AoE:Whoa, whoa, way to put words in my mouth. I never said I spoke for anyone but myself. And I also never said it should be 800 MSP just because most XBLA games are 800. I just said $15 was too expensive and $10 seems like a much better price for this game and others like it. And I always get my friends to buy games before I buy mine so I can try them out unless I'm 100% sure they're golden. ;)
@miyagi: Maybe I am just old school because I don't feel comfortable forking over a lot of money for a digitally distributed game. Same reason why stuff like Steam and Gametap makes me wary. I like having hard copies of stuff in case my system breaks, I get a new one, or I want to play my game 10 years later and it's no longer available for purchase (e.g. Full Throttle).
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Aug 7th 2008 11:35PM
Since you're all ganging up, I have to say I completely agree with Saria. Especially on the fact that it's digital distro and not a physical copy. I don't mind buying digital items, but I do mind overpaying for them.
miyagi @ Aug 7th 2008 11:52PM
And for those same reasons I tend to like digitally distributed games.
I don't have to worry about discs getting scratched, losing them, or keeping them updated with patches, working with new OS's, etc.
I know I've already gone off topic but with something like Steam I know that whenever I want I can install a game and have it patched & ready to play whenever I want. I have quite a few older PC games on disc that are a total bear to get up and running on some of the newer hardware/software out there. If they were rereleased on a digital distribution service like I would more then likely fork over the cash again.
Arttemis @ Aug 8th 2008 12:10AM
The increased pricetag does not necessarily translate into increased profit to the developer. I'm certain the royalties have increased just as much.
That's $10 worth of points I had saved that won't be going to this developer.
Had the game been priced lower, I would have purchased it. If the price doesn't come down soon, I won't purchase it any time soon.
3cubed @ Aug 8th 2008 12:28AM
I have to agree with Saria as well. 10$ is a purchase for me but 15$ is not. For me personally, I can't see myself paying more than 10$ for any downloadable game. I just hope Fat Princess isn't more than 10$.
Noshino @ Aug 8th 2008 1:11AM
I completely agree with Saria, seriously guys, because he is a indie developer it does not mean that he can get away with the price.
Look, PA and Insomniac are releasing digitally distributed games for about the same price (20 and 15) and according to the media and what has been shown, they have higher production values than Braid, not only that, unlike Blow, they are full fledge studios that have to pay many more bills than him, so does that mean that they should also increase their prices?
Seriously, like many people have already stated, $10 is the sweet spot for Braid
vidGuy,
Blow might be a great developer, but it seems he lacks business skills
Aex @ Aug 8th 2008 2:30AM
I'm with ya Saria. It was a fun demo, and while I'd like to explore it more, I am unwilling to pay $15 for it. Unlike you though, I am no where close to being not able to afford tossing my money around on video games. I'm just a Cheap Ass Gamer :p
Though, in all seriousness, If this game is seriously 1-2 hours long, it is in no way worth $15, no matter how hard he worked by himself, or how indie he is, or how pretty the "Art" of the game is. Just like Portal isn't worth $20 by itself, though when bundled with HL2, Ep1, Ep2, and TF2... it is worth $40 :p
BananaBoat @ Aug 8th 2008 3:08AM
It's easy to criticize when you have absolutely zero monetary investment into something. It seems as if this guy probably spent a ton of time and money on it, and that he needs it to sell well to pay the bills. Faced with a similar dilemma, I doubt you'd be so critical.
If you need a real world example of this, look at the price of anime. Since anime DVD's don't sell in high volumes, the price has to stay astronomical (30 dollars for 3 episodes in the US. Much more overseas) for the distribution company to make a profit. What happens when a title sells really well? It gets produced in higher numbers (economies of scale) and the price drops. After awhile, it's sold well enough at the lowered price, and the sales drop off the table. How do they fix this? With a "Greatest Hits!" price drop, which gets people buying again, until ultimately the sales drop off again and the game goes into the bargain bin.
In summary, while it may seem absurd...a niche product absolutely needs to sell well at a high cost before it can be lowered in price. Blow seems to be familiar with the concept, and he's putting it into practice.
ogvor @ Aug 8th 2008 3:21AM
In a lot of ways it's a gamble. Lets try this for example: Selling the game for 800 pts earns him 5$ a sale, sellign for 1200 pts earns him 10$ a sale. If 1000 people buy it for if for 1200 (earning him 10,000$) their would have to be atleast 2000 people for the 800 pts price to be viable to him. Now this isn't at all accurate, considering we don't know how much Microsoft takes from the cut and exactly how many more people would buy it at a cheaper price, but considering that this game appeals to a niche audience, I don't think their are a lot of people who would have bought it for 5$ dollars less.
Really, just think about what that 5$ is worth to you. Would you really buy a worse game for 55$ instead of 60$? What if one was the greatest game every made and one was only this years best game? Realtively speaking, I think it's odd people are compaining so much about $5.00. You couldn't even go to the movies for that much...
Badger_badger_badger @ Aug 8th 2008 3:57AM
tl;dr
edhc44 @ Aug 8th 2008 8:37AM
Welcome to the present, Saria! If you can't cope with digital distribution, you better off move to the Himalayas or something. Say, do you still purchase CD's from physical music stores? You complain that $15 is too expensive for a game that is not hardcopied and treats your HDD space like it's an ethereal alternate reality... Sorry to let you down girl, but that's where things are headed. As a game colector, I like to buy my games in their neat plastic cases with those nice smelling manuals (at least, when they still smell like new), but if a good game won't be released in this media, what can I do? Refrain from playing it just because I think its price is not worth since I don't have physical "evidence" that I own the game? As much as I like the cases and stuff, but I buy games to play, not to show them off (and yet, I can still show them off as it is... or do you think everyone that sees me playing Geometry Wars 2 can keep it cool?). Besides, don't you think that there is manufacturing and distribution involved when releasing a game in physical form? You say you won't pay $15 for a "virtual" game, but would you pay $20-$25 for the exact same game if it was hardcopied? I bet you wouldn't, as neither would I nor many other people. That's why this business model works.
On a different approach, as a somewhat game developer wannabe as I am, if a solo developer feels like he should charge $15 bucks instead of $10 for his work to have a greater sense of "security" that his hard work will pay off, I don't see why we should raise torches and pitchforks, I'm just glad that he decided not to push $20. Yeah, it's good for the developer and "bad" for the consumers, should the game be developed by a bigger studio, it would have been cheaper. But this guy doesn't work for any big studios and that might be the chance for him to get in (I don't know what's the deal with this guy, but this is the reality for most game dev aspirants), so we should settle with things as they are and not delve into the "what if" world.
As a closing comment, I haven't even downloaded Braid trial yet nor seem screenshots or videos or anything, I'm just countering your arguments on things you don't or don't want to understand.
Sturek @ Aug 8th 2008 9:53AM
I don't think this will set a precedent. What would set a precedent is a mediocre game selling okay at 1200 spacebucks. That would be a problem. Or stuff like Lumines with all its packs. This would have set a precedent. Braid is a good 10 hours long if you really want to find all the secrets and about 6-8 hours for one playthrough. I'm sorry, but CoD 4 Singleplayer wasn't longer than that and I essentially paid 30 real bucks for that and on top of that, Braid is an even better game. So, $15 is very reasonable, in my opinion, $20 would have been the limit. The PA game was shorter, less amazing (while still very good) and even more expensive. The problem is, I think, if you only played the demo, you can't really judge if it is worth 15 bucks (which is a problem for a demo, I'll admit). It's a bit like Rez, if you haven't played the last level, you haven't experienced half the game.
Psychofemm @ Aug 8th 2008 9:47AM
my *take on digitally distributed games:
Yes, games are tied to an account. Which means you can't sell them. BUT exactly how much money do you expect to "regain" from selling a $10-$15 game.
Let's say that the game was disc released at the SAME price it was released as a digitally distributed game... that means it's used price at a store would be any where as low as $5 to as high as $7.50 for the $10 game. The $15 game would be $10-$12.50 used..
Now, at most game stores you have a basic value system of:
Trade - 50% of used price
Sell - 25% of used price
So theoretically @ a store, you could *sell a $10 game for $1.25 up to $1.88.
And a $15 game for $2.50 up to $3.13.
…
(Now I suppose you could always find a buddy to sell it to and you would need to sell it to them for some where between what a store would sell it for and what the store would give you for it.)
BUT we all know if this or any other digitally distributed game would be disc released. You would be paying more.
I’m done rambling.. it’s too early in the morning. :)
vidGuy @ Aug 8th 2008 11:04AM
Braid is 4-6 hours long, plus a speed run that will take another 45 minutes to an hour. Even at 5 hours, that's about as long as the single player campaign of the $60 Call of Duty 4.
Phinehas @ Aug 8th 2008 1:13PM
I look at it this way. Sure, it would be great to get Braid for $5 cheaper. For me, anyway. On the other hand, not only is $15 a fair price to pay for an innovative game, but I tend to think of the extra $5 as an investment in the next game JB makes. This guy has successfully melded art, innovation, and fun. More please.
ez4u @ Aug 10th 2008 1:38PM
Saria, get a fucking job, jesus christ. You can afford the money you're paying for the internet you're using to complain about 15 dollars day and night, right? Or can you not afford the mighty price of FIFTEEN FUCKING DOLLARS because your allowance is only 5 dollars a week and you're saving up for some furry mangas, hmm?
Get a fucking life, holy shit. Not too many people on the internet make me this angry, but being a blubbering vagina over the same cost of going out to dinner is beyond my comprehension.
hey oh @ Aug 12th 2008 3:13PM
@vidGuy
Not too many people bought COD IV for the single player. just saying.
@ez4u
to be fair I dont really think its a matter of paying five dollars, its a matter of paying 15 dollars for an arcade game. 5 dollars is a lot in this situation considering it's a third the total price JB is asking. Its the diffrence between paying 60 or 40 dollars for a full console game. Marketplace already suffers from a ridiculous amount of price gouging and Braid isn't any help
BIGFAT @ Aug 7th 2008 9:06PM
it took me 15 minutes to watch a 4 minute video.
i hate 1up videos.
Fernando Rocker @ Aug 7th 2008 9:07PM
I will buy it at $10... the demo is more than great, but $15 is expensive.
Fenix @ Aug 7th 2008 10:58PM
"$15 is expensive"
Oh c'mon Fernando! You wanna know whats expensive? 1000 Wii Points (10.00) for SPOGS Racing on WiiWare :P Now THAT, is highway robbery!!!
Jeff @ Aug 7th 2008 9:08PM
JESUS CHRIST I AM TIRED OF READING ABOUT THIS STUPID GAME.
BIGFAT @ Aug 7th 2008 9:14PM
i don't think hearing news about this game is stupid.
your not looking at the big picture, if this game sells well it will set a new precedent that tells Microsoft that they can charge more for there games. This is bigger then this one game.
Exp: Castle Cashers is also supposed to be more then 10 dollar
miyagi @ Aug 7th 2008 10:37PM
@BENFAT
This wasn't the first game that was 1200 pts or more.
Bankshot Billiards
Lumines
Roboblitz
Penny Arcade
Braid
Future releases (most likely)
Castle Crashers
Portal: Still Alive
It's not exactly setting some sort of evil precendent...
miyagi @ Aug 7th 2008 10:42PM
BIGFAT sorry...
I'm sure I may be missing a few games too.
edhc44 @ Aug 8th 2008 8:41AM
So refrain from clicking on articles with its name involved. Yes, it is THAT simple.
Talvish @ Aug 7th 2008 9:14PM
This game is easily worth $15 dollars. I'm about half-way through and currently feel it is one of my favourite games of all time. It is an extremely engaging puzzler.
If it helps put it into perspective. This is about a 6 hour game. There have been $60 dollars games in and around that play time (some without any multi-player).
josh @ Aug 7th 2008 9:29PM
You're definitely correct about the price to length ratio, I for one love this game even with the extreme challenges of World 4 :D