This game is beautiful. I decided to drop the $15 after playing the demo.

It's creative and rewarding enough that I'll stay away from the walkthroughs, but I'm still not sure if I'm "doing it right." Should I be able to get all the puzzle pieces when I find them? Or do I have to leave some, get items from other levels, and come back to get them later?

Copa -- sometimes you have to come back and get pieces later. I've only played the demo thus far, but there's a part (I won't give it away) involving the big puzzle that appears in one of the early levels where you can't get all of the pieces without collecting something (that appears in a later level) first.

I have this game beat, except speed runs. There are no item pickups besides keys to open doors, and puzzle pieces. Everything is achievable based on the skills the game gives you. Certain worlds have certain stipulations, and cool tricks that help you solve the puzzles.

I find the story the most intriguing part of the entire game, and it could take me weeks to analyze exactly what's going on. You could look at it so many ways, but once you complete it, you could look at it a bunch MORE ways. Sounds crazy, but it's true.

just finished it...

This thread was extremely helpful and allowed me to complete the game, the bit about rotating the puzzle pieces to solve the world let me finish the entire game... the ending is woah... seriously... it is crazy... twisted... it is like the only game i have ever played and then ran through the ending like 5 times... when you beat it watch what is happens... it makes everything different...

I think there needs to be a thread discussing the ending... or what was actually happening in the game...

oh and in relation to this topic... faq atm would be bad... pretty much i'd was trying to get it just to try and complete one puzzle piece, however it was likely after getting that puzzle piece i wouldn't try as hard to get the other puzzles on my own... like why would you keep bashing your head on it after like 5 tries if you know in the back of your mind i can just check the faq...

i like this game as much if not more then portal after the ending...

I disagree. I think a player is seriously missing the point of the game by looking at a faq. As no puzzle *must* be completed to move on, it's not like your stuck. You can always come back after you are more familiar with the game.

The guy designed a puzzle game, and a very intelligent one at that. If I designed a puzzle game, I think I would prefer it if people took the time to solve my puzzles rather than just looked up a solution.

And, it's worth the $15 if you enjoy this style of game in the slightest. If it ends up being 5 hours long, I would feel like my money was well spent (even it if was shorter, I'd still feel that way).

I didn't say gamers should turn to FAQs. I agree with you that it is much more rewarding and personally fulfilling to complete a game without turning to FAQs or tips or friends. I just think it's silly to tell your customers not to use them.

@Saria

I'm sure it's a response to the overwhelming cries of "Can you give a walkthrough?" towards Jonathan Blow.

Agreed. I'm not telling you what to do with the money I gave you to make the game, don't tell me what to do with the game.

I think you guys are misreading my comments. I'm not for people looking at FAQs and ruining a puzzle game. I'm just for a developer not being pretentious and telling his customers what to do. Have you even seen that "official guide?" The whole deal just insults the intelligence of the gamer who bought his game, that's all. OF COURSE the game is more rewarding if you don't spoil it with FAQs. How stupid does he think we are? And if people want to ruin the game, then they have every right to.

@E.J.: I find it a tactless response. The best response would be, "I'm not releasing a walkthrough because a walkthrough will just ruin the game for you guys, since it's just a puzzle game. Just try to stay on it and you'll get it." Not a fabricated walkthrough that tries to "teach you a lesson."

Besides, you don't think all developers receive all kinds of crap and requests from people? When people ask for a sequel to a game and it's not in the works, the developer doesn't post up a big fake homepage for the sequel and on it say, "Sorry, guys, not happenin'!"

I definitely find it very unrewarding to beat a game with the (extensive) use of FAQs or strategy guides as well. I used to never use them, but I've come to find some games' experiences are actually enhanced with the use of FAQs, esp. the second run through. I also know a lot of people who will get stuck on something in a game, then wind up losing interest due to hours of frustration. In those cases, I think it's much more beneficial to turn to FAQs than let yourself get so bummed out by a puzzle that you never feel like going back to the game.

This is true. There certainly is a balance to be had and it's great that the resources are out there. Ultimately it comes down to your personal discipline as a gamer and how much you want to be challenged. There are situations that I use a strategy guide from the very beginning. FFXII is one example. With a game that big, and with my gaming time more limited now than ever, I wanted to experience everything possible on the first run through. But a balance is needed to be sure.

That being said...I'm so glad that I was able to post almost the same thing twice because I thought that my first comment had not gone through. Such is life.

Psh, in my day the only way we could get any tips was through carrier pigeon.

C'mon, click the plus, people!

I hope we win.

damn it, I thought I was the only one to get the Princess Bride reference. It was pretty subtle.

That was really classy.
+1

Man I laughed upon reading this! Nice job.

God, I should read my crap before posting it... *self righteous

Well, all this stuff joystiq has been posting about him has been from the official blog, so I think he is talking as much as any other dev does (like The Behemoth's Castle Crashers dev blog for example). What's really happening is that joystiq is drawing attention to him more than they do for most other developers, so it just seems like he's going on and on and on when he's really just giving an average amount of input.

I think that's kind of the point... that the world is intriguing enough that when you notice strange little changes and glitches, you're inclined to experiment and research them on your own. There aren't many instructions at all. Hell, the "controls" option doesn't even mention that you can press a button to alter time. It only tells you how to run and jump.

The game is a reminder of the original SMB and Zelda games, where you're given a world and nothing else. It's not right for every game, but it suits this one perfectly.

Dead on dude. If the point of the game is to 'figure it out' then walkthroughs are rather dumb...unless you really a truly stuck to the point of giving up.
But a game where it isn't essentially puzzling...a "second time around walkthrough" might help you get the most bang for your buck allowing you to find all the nooks and crannies.
This game isn't a "second time around" game. It's a absolutely joyous, beautiful, smart game that you won't return to. Do it right and straight the first time for yourself.

portal's a great game, but the reason the puzzles didn't take a long time to solve wasn't because they were much easier than braid's, it was because the player is basically hand fed everything they need to know to beat the game. braid takes more of a hands-off approach and lets you try to figure out what you can do with your ability. it did learn a lot of lessons from portal though, including all the strong visual cues used to teach players what to do. it seems like the longer you play the game the easier you will find the puzzles, so if you were frustrated by the trial version maybe there just isn't enough there to really get you into how the game works.

To me, problem solving is the ultimate form of entertainment in terms of games. Without it, you're just pressing buttons in session until the "The End" screen shows up.
What makes a game intense is the quick problem solving needed to complete it. What makes a great puzzle game is the extent of the problem solving. Portal was good game with an amazing concept (that was taken from an indy game btw)...but the puzzles were mostly meh. Braid (similiar to lolo and fire & ice to name a couple) is a masters puzzle game. You need to play these games like you play a game of chess...and you need to learn how to enjoy the absense of over stimulus just like two people enjoy a game of chess or a game of cards. It's refreshing.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I understand his point, it's just ridiculous that he's telling people not to look at FAQs. Like he's your older wiser grandpa gamer and all us kiddies obsessed with pokemanz are wasting perfectly good gaming with our constant FAQs-mongering.

Pretty much. Now be a good girl and don't read that FAQ.

Damnit I cant wait to play this game!!! So did you buy it Cyro?

I'm thinking about it. I want to but, I don't want to spend my points on a very short game when Bionic Commando Rearmed is right around the corner.

:P

we'll see...

@cyro

Since you haven't purchased the game, where did you find out how long the game was? I'm also having internal debates on whether to purchase Braid or not. I do get your feelings on the lack of replay value for this type of game. At least there are speed runs, for those interested in that type of thing
(might it be an indicator for puzzles having multiple solutions?)

Would be interesting to know how fast Jonathan himself can speed run through the entire game -- a good indicator for the absolute minimum expected playtime.

World 2 is the start for everyone...world 1 is the final level... and it makes the relationship to the other worlds very warped...