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Reader Comments (116)

Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:48PM Tiptup300 said

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Pre-rendered = stupid
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:23PM (Unverified) said

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Are you seriously suggesting that id should use procedurally generated textures in Rage?
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:46PM In A World said

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Ummm... but it's NOT pre-rendered. It just looks really friggin' realistic!
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:56PM (Unverified) said

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"Ummm... but it's NOT pre-rendered. It just looks really friggin' realistic!"

Of course the textures are pre-rendered, as they are in almost all modern games.

.kkrieger is an example of a first-person shooter that uses procedurally generated textures. The entire game is less than 100k in size, but requires a reasonably modern system to run. Have at it: http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 3:05PM heypaul said

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The problem with .kkrieger is twofold: it heavily taxes the hardware of a modern system while still not looking fantastic by modern standards. Basically, they sacrifice graphics and performance, two things that gamers today tend to consider rather important, for a savings in something we have plenty of: disc space. At this point, .kkrieger is one hell of a tech demo, but actual application of the technologies it employs is still a long ways off.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 4:14PM BananaBoat said

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If I do get this game when it comes out (big if there, I know almost nothing about it, and I'm not thrilled with Carmack after the crapfest that was Quake Wars), I'll probably get it for PS3, if I'm going to have to contend with blurry graphics.

I'm more excited for the next doom. Doom 3 was so....mehhh...that I'm looking forward to 4 fixing it (duct tape flashlight to gun, Plzkthxbai)
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 5:38PM In A World said

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"Of course the textures are pre-rendered, as they are in almost all modern games."

It's debatable weather this is an appropriate usage of the term "pre-rendered", which is usually used to describe FMVs. The textures were drawn before hand, it's true, but are compressed to begin with (on the 360, likely not on PS3) and are decompressed as needed and are rendered on-the-fly so as to be viewed differently from different angles and distances and with different effects applied, which by definition means they are not *PRE*-rendered. They're just rendered.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 6:51PM Tiptup300 said

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I was just talking about FMV sequences. Having prerendered 1080p 30 minute long cutscenes is just wasteful and stupid. Mostly I was talking about another unmentioned game.
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Posted: Aug 9th 2008 12:10AM Jacksons said

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Rii,

That kkrieger program was quite a thing to see, thanks for the link.
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Posted: Aug 9th 2008 1:27AM (Unverified) said

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Paul (PSN: heypaul) dude, it was under 100kb because of the weird contest they have over in europe. the one where a program needs to be under a 100kb to qualify.
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Posted: Aug 9th 2008 6:28PM (Unverified) said

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If you're referring to MGS4... none of the cutscenes are pre-rendered, they never have been in MGS games...
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:51PM NaeemTHM said

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"But if you go into some areas in the wasteland, like behind a fence where nobody will typically go and explore, this is where the 360 version may look a little blurry compared to the PS3."

*gasp*

At last SDF has a bomb to drop on the 360:

PS3 games look better in areas no one visits.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:55PM (Unverified) said

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You're not talking about "Home", are you? ;)
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:56PM (Unverified) said

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Only a stupid fanboy like you would mention SDF.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:00PM philmcfail said

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Naeem When you say SDF, do you mean the actual site? Cuz those guys are actually run by the people actually wii60.com right? But I'm guessing you know that if you mean the actual site: www.sonydefenseforce.com
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:02PM philmcfail said

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typo change 2nd *actually to (at)
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 3:08PM NaeemTHM said

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And only stupid fanboys like you Waqman, will take me seriously.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:53PM (Unverified) said

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And here we ... go!
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:53PM Gronar said

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And why is this a big issue? Seems pretty insignificant.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:08PM arrrgh said

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it's a "big issue" so that sony can say that games NEED blu ray, followed by "buy a ps3"


in the real world, it is pretty much a non-issue
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:30PM SoCoolCurt said

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yea seriously, even being a Sony supporter and all, this seems like something no one would have noticed anyway if they didnt release this statement. pretty much a non issue.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:46PM atrimus said

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tell that to Gametrailer SoCoolKurt. they've run side-by-side vids of PS360 games and paused the action just to demonstrate that the PS3's color is a bit washed out (something a mere tv adjustment can remedy), or that the 360 has a few extra pixels in certain areas. and this is saying nothing about the huge fiasco of GTA IV running at a solid 30fps on the 360, and 30fps most of the time and 29.99999999999fps all other times on the PS3.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:54PM borland502 said

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"it's a "big issue" so that sony can say that games NEED blu ray, followed by "buy a ps3""

Actually, the interesting thing to me is not the benefits to Sony marketing, but that there are active barriers to games spanning more than 2 discs on the 360.

Besides, storage capacity is always a concern and the need for more storage always increases. 2 DVD games were established even during the PS2 days with SD content. So if there is a wall preventing 360 publishers from just logically spitting out 3+ discs if they please...then there is a topic there.

Just as there is a topic if little miss BluRay is stuffing her shirt with extra padding to make what's there bigger.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:54PM Erluti said

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Seems like with the new Xbox dashboard allowing you to install games from a disc they'd create like a third disc image for DLC. Seems like that would be a money maker.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:02PM dabamf said

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What if users don't have enough HDD space to do such a thing?
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:15PM GamaFu said

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That's why it's optional. The Hard drive installation is totally optional on XBOX 360. However, I don't mind it looks worse at places no one would visit. It doesn't matter to me since I can't see it in the first place.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 4:38PM Hyams said

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I still think the 360 disc install thing is stupid. Do you really want to install 25+ GB of data onto your hard drive, which will presumably take several hours of sandwhich making, simply so you don't have to spend 2 minutes swapping discs halfway through the game?
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 8:32PM (Unverified) said

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@Hyams: Dude, it's about faster loading times and no DVD noise, not swapping discs.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:56PM (Unverified) said

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Lost Odyssey on the 360 was four CD's, I don't see why they feel like the MUST fit it on two. I know there are royalties involved, but if a fairly low profile game like Lost Odyssey can afford it in their budget than iD of Doom and Quake fame should be able to as well.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:03PM (Unverified) said

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How do you know Lost Odyssey could afford it?
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:03PM cuteSAVAGE said

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Microsoft actually financed Lost Odyssey though. They were probably a little more willing to pay themselves the extra-DVD royalty fees than a third-party independent developer like id Software.

Though I have to wonder what is EA doing during all of this. I thought one of the jobs of the publisher / distributer was to worry about the actual physical product.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:07PM AoE said

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"I thought one of the jobs of the publisher / distributer was to worry about the actual physical product."

They're probably the ones standing over Carmack's shoulder saying "Fit it on two dvds! The royalties are too high otherwise!"
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:09PM Burritoclock said

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In my humble opinion, Id was making a power play to get the royalties dropped to increase their profit, however Microsoft didn't budge and so now they can't very well tuck their tail between their legs and eat the cost now because they would look silly.

This is all I can figure because you make a VERY good point about Lost Odyssey not only paying for a third disk, but also a fourth disc, and it was never going to have any where near the Rage sells.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:10PM ummhello said

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heh...I forgot about that, and I OWN a copy of LostOdyssey...another game I have yet to complete...and that was only $60 retail...
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:31PM (Unverified) said

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Tell me how many games came out for the PS1, PS2, and Xbox games that had 2+ disk games? with libraries of 1k+ titles, the percentage of games with multiple disks was really small.

Now tell me, on the short time that the 360 has been on the market, how many games with 2+ disks have there been?

Burritoclock,

"Id was making a power play to get the royalties dropped to increase their profit, however Microsoft didn't budge and so now they can't very well tuck their tail between their legs and eat the cost now because they would look silly."

Id has enough money and reputation to not have to do that to Microsoft, they were just being real, there is an storage problem. In my opinion, it seems that this is simply a warning of what it is to come to Microsoft if the id Tech 5 engine is adopted by other studios, developers would have to decide between compromising content or paying the royalties to Microsoft.

Microsoft will have to give in sooner or later to not give the upped hand to Sony

"This is all I can figure because you make a VERY good point about Lost Odyssey not only paying for a third disk, but also a fourth disc, and it was never going to have any where near the Rage sells."

Microsoft funds Mistwalker so Sakaguchi didn't really have to worry about that.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2008 6:18AM ysdarkfact said

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The only multiple disc games out there are Microsoft published. This makes me wonder if Microsoft won't pick up the bill when it comes to Final Fantasy XIII.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 1:59PM ummhello said

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who cares? if the gameplay is the same, then it'll boil down to what the multiplayer experience is like to determine whether I get the 360 or ps3 version (it has multiplayer, right?). most likely though I'll just rent this game--maybe even both versions, just so I can be an achievement AND trophy whore...

...and disc swapping was never a problem before--just look at FinalFantasyVII, VIII or IX....

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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:00PM Dirty said

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I know that Carmack is a legendary developer and all, but when was the last ID project that was all that great. Doom 3? Who's greatest graphics title was lost in 2 seconds.

I dunno maybe Im just blowin smoke but I am not really too interested in this game. Ill believe in it when I see it. He is probably just throwing gasoline on the console war fire to get people to look at his game.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:06PM dabamf said

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Right, Doom 3 is so lost that Steam picked it up as its digital distributor.

Fail.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:09PM AoE said

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um... I think Carmack's been around long enough/has enough respect among gamers & the industry in general that he doesn't need to kick up dust to get attention for his games.

Also... have you ever heard him speak? He's almost a robot; there's not a PR bone in his body...
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:19PM Keithustus said

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Carmack alone = slightly above mediocre games. Romero alone = significantly below mediocre games. Put them together = the industry follows.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:20PM (Unverified) said

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id hasn't actually developed any PC/Console titles since Doom 3...
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:23PM arrrgh said

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actually, you fail.

Doom3 was burried so fast people forgot to care about it. ID is not the studio they once were.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:37PM (Unverified) said

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id says doom 3 sold over 3 million copies. I've been playing through it again recently, and it's not that bad of a game. I think it's got so many tiny problems that they accumulate into a frustrating experience.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:03PM (Unverified) said

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lawl at xbox
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:11PM Duke said

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ROFL you made an interweb comment. Damn XBots! grrrr rofl rofl. Am I right!? ugh.

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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:14PM (Unverified) said

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a what mate? lol
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:30PM Duke said

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Exactly!
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:44PM Vcize said

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Sorry 0789, what Duke wrote requires an IQ score about 13 to comprehend. Hence, you fail.
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Posted: Aug 8th 2008 2:51PM Duke said

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Another day at the mensa meeting that is our comment section eh Vcize?
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