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Reader Comments (25)

Posted: Aug 14th 2008 8:22PM hotpuck6 said

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well put.
The simple fact that video games are the scapegoat of the time in our now sue happy society does not mean they are any more the ones to blame, they are just in the limelight while people are reaching further to any aspect of blame they can place when something like this occurs.
Rock music and movies both faced similar controversy. To place blame on an art medium such as this is to take responsibility away from the individual, something people often look to do when pointing fingers and want a great explanation than the simple one in front of them.

In modern society, if we are going to put blame on something else that does not DIRECTLY cause the action, products of creativity will simply cease to exist due to being just to risky to create.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 9:00PM emirabal said

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WELL PUT!!!
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 8:31PM (Unverified) said

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Joystiq, you are so afraid of regulation, you deny the obvious and thereby bring regulation closer to reality.

Serious sex and violence is available with an M-rating. So is mild-shooting of cartoony alien creatures. This is inconsistent. The public is going to go after ALL games until they are properly rated.

Why not support an AO rating for provocative games? It would solve this problem. You're fighting a losing battle otherwise, no matter how much you argue.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 8:40PM monkeyssuck said

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There is an AO rating already, but this also wouldn't solve the problem. These games could still be sold to underage children, or their parents still would get it for their children. The bigger problem, moreso than properly rated games, is proper parenting. Even if the games aren't rated properly, everything possibly offensive is listed on the back of the box. Parental controls are also usually never set for a video game console. Proper ratings won't solve it if the parents don't parent and the shop owners are still selling the games to kids (Yes, I know there are laws in place, but they aren't always followed)
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 8:53PM (Unverified) said

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An AO game could not be sold to minors, even if a parent was standing right there passing the credit card. It WOULD remove liability from the game makers and put it on the shop-keepers, just like pornography or Jack Daniels.

Rockstar admitted GTA4 is for adults only. And yet, it gets an M.

Gamers come here venting and raging against game critics... but that isn't going to solve the problem. Proper ratings will. And we're not there yet.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 9:03PM blash said

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There is an AO rating, and it would not be too hard to make sure that game retailers follow it the same way that movie theaters make sure that NC-17 ratings are followed. The real problem is that:

1) AO represents explicit sexual content, which is deemed "vulgar" by law and an exception to free speech so that its sale can be regulated by the age of the consumer. If it does not have explicit sexual content, it is rated M so that it can be sold to people under 18.
2) Given that AO means that there is explicit sexual content, it goes to reason that GTA4 not be rated AO since there is no explicit sexual content in GTA4, and therefore GTA4 needs to be rated M.
3) Since Halo and GTA are indisputably different in age-appropriateness, there needs to be another rating between T (13+) and M (17+) - something that is 15+ (keep in mind, PEGI has a 16+ rating and Australia has a 15+ rating).

4) (slightly off train of thought) AO represents a defacto ban seeing as how no major retailer stocks AO games, the only place to buy an AO game is online and that severely restricts potential sales for publishers, so virtually any time a game is rated AO in the US developers go back and try to get an M rating - akin to how Bethesda just had to censor Fallout 3 so that they would get more sales (the alternative being zero) in Australia, SO... you wouldn't want to encourage the AO rating anyways.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 10:11PM ummhello said

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NC-17????????!!!!! LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!! what a stupid rating. it's the SAME FUCKING RATING as R-Rated movies....nobody under 17 should be admitted. XXX was the better rating--nobody under 21 should watch the film. what a joke the movie rating system is--and it has moving standards based on societal changes--ever notice that how much filth they spew on daytime TV nowadays?? PG-13 movies in the 80's weren't allowed to have many of the swear words they say nowadays--the only thing that's tame in PG-13 movies is the amount of skin allowed to show.

anyways, the Rating systems are in place for both movies and games--if the parents are too stupid to comprehend the M=mature along with the numbers 17+ then how the hell did they figure out that Hasbro boardgames for kids 6+ meant?

people need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. and you know what? it's a shame that the United States ISN'T more like Thailand. you steal? buh-bye to the hand.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 10:35PM BigD145 said

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NC-17 is the loophole rating to toss in things that fit the R rating but don't fit the ideals (monogamous partnerships, heterosexuality, abstinence, etc) of the people that actually do the ratings. Blowing someone's head open with a .50 cal is ok, but two girls "bumping uglies" in bed? Nooooo. That's bad. NC-17 that sucker so it has a harder time getting published.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 10:37PM BigD145 said

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Before I forget. No major retail store will carry an NC-17 rated item. They carry R, but the long standing tradition is to not buy/sell NC-17 ANYTHING.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 8:32PM Ghen said

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your mom is a violent video game.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 9:00PM emirabal said

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You hit the nail on the head with this one. You brought in the perfect example of "catcher in the rye", because i always think the same thing, this book is still sold and nobody has brought charges against these people.

I have this argument with people who claim that i am more violent because of video games, wut, come on, im violent because im violent and have a vivid imagination, not because i play video games.

Also the issue about the person has mental issues is a whole different problem, thats where its not even about looking at the video games its the person brain that has the problem.

Stop looking for something to blame and blame the person.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 9:27PM (Unverified) said

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thank god i dont live in Thailand
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Posted: Aug 14th 2008 10:36PM Ruinkind said

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Mark, thank you for this thoughtful post.

As was already mentioned in one of the GamePolitics articles, I would also like to point out again that we don't yet have meaningful confirmation that this crime really occurred the way it's been described.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 12:47AM (Unverified) said

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I don't know where to begin. The course of action is simple, we need to educate parents better. But the actual education part is hard. Simply put a lot of parents are too stupid to have kids and probably shouldn't have.

We have a nation of kids being raised by media on our hands and it's becoming increasingly hard to say that we shouldn't regulate media seeing as how the parents are seemingly unwilling to change. But I still believe that if you beat them over the head with it maybe, just maybe you can achieve some form of victory. There should be banners across any form of video games that say M=MATURE FOR AUDIENCES 17 AND UP. We could also put disclaimers in loading screens also stating that this is a work of fiction and that these actions should never be carried out in real life. That would absolve some of the scapegoating.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 2:00AM (Unverified) said

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Danny,

Parents aren't "stupid," they are just confused by ratings that aren't applied evenly. They can't figure out which game is the hard-M and which is the soft-M. Honestly, you can't keep a 10-year old from playing some M-games. It's all that's out there besides Viva Pinata and Madden. Some M-games are actually not even really that mature, like Halo 3. So parents go with it. It's when these provactive games like GTA4 earn an M-rating, it takes a mature theme into a hard-adult world... that's the problem, and the ESRB is screwing up the process by blending these two kinds of M. Just don't label people as stupid.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 4:51AM (Unverified) said

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Precisely as Doug says: stop blaming these imaginary 'stupid parents' and realize that the game ratings system really doesn't work. That doesn't mean there should be government regulations, or that games shouldn't be allowed to push boundaries: it means that we should have a rating system that works. Not only for the logical reason of DUH, but because it gives us that coveted item: Plausible Deniability.

There is no argument that media influences behavior. There's a reason ad careers pay millions, there's a reason companies invest billions in ads. Your behavior can be modified by the media you consume. Games are media. Thus, it is certainly reasonable to state that games do influence people to do things, both bad and good.

In any case, they should fry that fucking guy. The general inability of most people to actually think about their position on a subject has partially numbed me to irrationality, but I cannot fathom the people who are against capital punishment.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 1:15PM (Unverified) said

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I'd give you a +10 if I could, for your second paragraph alone.

I'd don't think I'd have said "Plausible Deniability," but I suppose that goes a bit toward the PR nightmare that the industry currently faces. If we could just stop writing and creating so much that reinforces the "immature" and "irresponsible" labels that are plastered all over our reputation, that might be a start. So, maybe "Plausible Maturity" or "Plausible Responsibility" should be our coveted item.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 5:42AM (Unverified) said

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You're right, the holistic approach is being unjustly applied to videogames singularly. It's a testimony to the conservatism surrounding new media, in a time where the "old media" is throwing a plethora of toys from its proverbial pushchair, seemingly refusing to give up. The Murdoch publications serve as a great example. Every staple of ol' Rupert's portfolio – from Fox News to Sky to The Times – is bursting with new and innovative ways of jealously blaming its baby brother for everything in the hope that it will garner the hatred of those who previously cooed over it.

Historically any new form of media attracts a huge amount of scrutiny when it rises to prominence, and "dangerous" movements in the way of art, literature, comic books and television have all proven totally benign anyway. I'm not saying it's wrong to be cautious of an emerging medium, but the phrase "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" comes to mind. Sometimes in the process of scrutiny we are too quick to reach tenuous conclusions in support of an ingrained traditionalism; it's part of what makes us human, I suppose, but that doesn't necessarily make it the correct approach. It's easy to find some obscure causal factor or other if you look hard enough, but the evidence is usually either a complete fabrication used opportunistically as an outlet for advocacy (read: Jack Thompson) or an iffy testimony coaxed out by somebody exploiting said fabrication (read: Jack Thompson). The evidence is way too inconsistent – and the cases too frivolous – to ever amount to anything beyond the same sporadic attention the other mediums received in their prime.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 6:02AM Haggard said

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A well written article. I disagree with some of the other posters, in that I don't view games as dangerous, and therefore don't see the need for a tighter content rating system.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 8:23AM (Unverified) said

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I wonder if the approach that rating boards take is not scientific enough, why else would there be such confusion as to when you should legally be free to buy and view content which is usually censored to children.

Is it 16, 17 or 18 when I am free not to have my life interfered in by the government?

Ultimately any claim that games cause crime is not a good reason to ban games, if the media causes crime the police have to improve their efforts to stifle the crime, the media don't get threatened with censorship...

CSI allows hundreds of criminals to get away, it's not like anyone wants it to be taken off air.
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 10:27AM (Unverified) said

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if they can hold rockstar responsible for a crime inspired by their game don't stop there how about a class action suit against the Catholic Church to pay damages to the families of all the people killed or sold into slavery because of people inspired by biblical texts
how we press charges against the Nation of Islam for any terrorist act made in the name of Allah.
lets face facts most serial killers and terrorist are inspired by religeous texts if we start banning thing based on the crimes they inspire the religeon should go first
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 10:56AM (Unverified) said

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God I feel bad... One thing kept going through my mind here and that is...

OBJECTION!
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Posted: Aug 15th 2008 1:22PM (Unverified) said

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"Doesn't the idea of free speech in and of itself demand some personal responsibility from those who are in their right mind?"

Brilliant point. Of course, it should probably be a two-way street. It seems that free speech should demand some personal responsibility from the speaker as well as the listener.

So, if the listener's responsibility is to not act out the bad stuff they've seen (and it certainly is), that just leaves us with the speaker's responsibility. Hmmm...I wonder what that would look like?
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Posted: Aug 18th 2008 4:36AM (Unverified) said

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What is not said here is that many criminal justice systems (particularly ones that were used long ago) set their primary aim as rehabilitation - not punishment

R2-JL
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Posted: Aug 19th 2008 7:04PM (Unverified) said

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Why are we talking about rating systems, the kid was 19. This sick guy needs to be punished, end of story.
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