Kojima tired of questions about MGS4 on Xbox 360
Kojima reiterates for the umpteenth time that MGS4 was optimized for the PS3 and a port may not be possible. He expresses, in what we're taking as a moment of frustration and spite, that he feels MGS4 should be on PC just so people stop focusing on consoles and start asking him more questions about the game itself.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
SoulBlade @ Aug 26th 2008 2:04PM
yeaa put it on PC! Most good 360 games end up on it anyway, so skip the middleman.
But yes... it probably does suck getting bombarded with the same question over and over and giving everyone the same answer each time.
StrangeBum @ Aug 26th 2008 3:21PM
Maybe if people keep asking him he will eventually decide to announce that a damn port is coming out though and make everyone happy.
Just the fact that he is asked constantly seems like it must be a pretty important issue amongst gamers, maybe he will recognize that.
Although...if the question does not have an answer..then what's the problem.
FireStiq @ Aug 26th 2008 7:47PM
I think he brought it on himself if you think about it, most people knew it wasn't coming to the 360 but after he made that statement that it was too expensive and the PS3 install base was too small and may be he had to make some steps (can't remember the quote) but everyone went ape shit after it.
whosmav @ Aug 26th 2008 2:04PM
Constant reminder of lost sales=massive Kojima heartburn
Marty @ Aug 26th 2008 2:04PM
...but if the game were on PC, wouldn't it be easier to put on the 360 in the first place?
I don't really see the point of bugging the man about this stuff any longer. It was relevant a year ago - now it's just beating a dead horse. The game has come and gone. Who cares?
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 2:19PM
"It was relevant a year ago - now it's just beating a dead horse. The game has come and gone. Who cares?"
Marty-
The majority of 360 only owners seem to care an awful lot. I am certainly glad that this game will stay exclusive for the PS3. Reason being is that without exclusives there is no point in having multiple consoles. However, there is also a big part of me that wished everyone could get an chance to play this masterpiece of a game.
The main reasons this topic has relevance is because of the FF megaton going multi-platform, it was recently released and the fact it is one of the best games ever made (otherwise no one would care). Kojima has really answered this question time and time again. It's time to let it go.
It seems this is one exclusive Microsoft can't buy.
Marty @ Aug 26th 2008 2:52PM
I don't think you speak for the majority of 360 owners at all. Not that the random user and his friends always reflect the will of the majority, but I am not interested in the game in the least, and neither is anyone I know who doesn't own a PS3. I believe MGS4 was a good game, but I have my doubts about it going down as one of the best games of all time, and like I said, I think the issue of porting it to the 360 is dead.
I don't blame you for being glad it's an exclusive - the PS3 has too few exclusives (at least, too few that matter). But I hope that you don't forget your glee when other exclusive games come out for other systems, and the owners of those systems share your feelings of contentment.
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 3:03PM
@Marty
Likewise I doubt you speak for the majority of 360 owners. Your anecdotal evidence is also irrelevant. Without any scientific data I would think it's pretty safe to assume that over 50% of 360 only owners would want MGS 4.
I have all 3 of the consoles so exclusives don't bother me none - like retarded kids throwing ice cubes at the sun.
I agree the porting issue is dead as dead can be. it has always been dead but the majority of 360 only owners have kept that hope alive because they want the game.
As far as whether or not it is one of the best of all time -- well that will always be a matter of taste and opinion. However, the game has critical acclaim and universal appeal in all regions. I think that cements it as one of the best ever not to mention the online component. Everything else really fails in compairison especially when it comes to scope and execution. Dyack shoud take note.
Being that you have never really embraced the PS3 I expect nothing less from you than a back handed compliment about a lack of important exclusives. Its simply par for the course.
it's all just a matter of opinion. No problems here.
Marty @ Aug 26th 2008 3:15PM
"Without any scientific data I would think it's pretty safe to assume that over 50% of 360 only owners would want MGS 4."
Without any scientific evidence, I don't think you can say either way, actually. Why would you assume that over 50% of Xbox 360 owners care about a game that isn't on their system, when only a small portion of those people even know about games on XBox Live Arcade? I don't buy it.
"As far as whether or not it is one of the best of all time -- well that will always be a matter of taste and opinion. However, the game has critical acclaim and universal appeal in all regions."
GTA4 achieved similar acclaim, but many fans now seem to be having second thoughts about how great they thought that game was. I think a similar fate is bound for many of the so-called "AAA" titles that receive perfect scores, especially once a few months have passed and the it's-finally-here euphoria wears off.
"Being that you have never really embraced the PS3 I expect nothing less from you than a back handed compliment about a lack of important exclusives. Its simply par for the course."
To say that the PS3 has a lack of important exclusives isn't back-handed at all - it's being realistic. You may say what you will, but one does not need to own every gaming system ever created just to have his opinion validated. I never owned a PS2, but I recognize it was a golden success.
BIGFAT @ Aug 26th 2008 3:30PM
"Without any scientific data I would think it's pretty safe to assume that over 50% of 360 only owners would want MGS 4. "
Actually we do have scientific data based on substance sales its clear xbox owners dont really care for MGS.
oh yeah, how is this the best game ever when it it has a Meta critic score of 94.
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 3:46PM
"To say that the PS3 has a lack of important exclusives isn't back-handed at all - it's being realistic. You may say what you will, but one does not need to own every gaming system ever created just to have his opinion validated. I never owned a PS2, but I recognize it was a golden success."
I never said anything like that. Don't spin the facts Marty. From what I have seen more often than not you are a very harsh critic of all things from the PS3. It is simply an observation from reading your comments. It is not suprising to see you question the validity of a game like MGS 4 sitting at the top of best games of all time.
I am going out on a limb here but I will assume that you never played MGS 4 all the way through or even beyond a sitting or two.
How many of the other PS3 exclusives have you actually given a chance?
"Without any scientific evidence, I don't think you can say either way, actually. Why would you assume that over 50% of Xbox 360 owners care about a game that isn't on their system, when only a small portion of those people even know about games on XBox Live Arcade? I don't buy it"
I would assume that the majority of 360 only owners want MGS 4 because this rumor has persisted. This rumor was grabbed from thin air by those same users I speak of. In any case, it's equally flawed thinking for you to deny it as it would be for me to buy it. You can't have it both ways. We will agree to disagree. But, i do think its safe to assume a great number of 360 only owners want this game.
"GTA4 achieved similar acclaim, but many fans now seem to be having second thoughts about how great they thought that game was. I think a similar fate is bound for many of the so-called "AAA" titles that receive perfect scores, especially once a few months have passed and the it's-finally-here euphoria wears off."
When you say "many fans" you are really just making another blanket generalization. How many fans? What is the percentage of people who do not think that? you see thats not a valid point. You probably heard people here on joystiq saying it was not that great and now you are saying "many" fans represent the greater populus. There are many people that simply hate things that are popular.
Besides that if the reviewer is not changing the score it is meaningless. The "fans" did not write the reviews. If they made a determination on how great GTA IV was before finishing it that is a mistake on their part. It does not mean the game was bad. it simply means they made a premature decision.
Have you heard people saying the same of MGS 4? It appears that you are simply trying to make a connection between the two because they were acclaimed. So from that we can say that every game that has recieved a high score is overrated and not good. Thats dumb. Two different products = two different circumstances. Don't make stuff up out of thin air to suite your argument.
Every situation is unique. Universal truth is not measure in mass appeal but when a game has mass appeal combined with critical acclaim there is no denying that is belongs at the top as one of the best. It use to ne that these games were few and far between. Now, we have more of these games because of the budgets, hardware available and the talented peopl in the industry. We can't discount a game based off some pseudo anecdotal evidence.
We will just have to agree to disagree. We can agree that the talk of a port is dead. I think it never existed where it not for hopeful fanboys which is what I base my argument off of which is a majority of owners wanting the game. The demand comes from somewhere.
SORRY FOR THE HUGE TEXT WALL EVERYONE. I AM VERY VERY SORRY.
Abscissa @ Aug 26th 2008 4:17PM
"I am certainly glad that this game will stay exclusive for the PS3. Reason being is that without exclusives there is no point in having multiple consoles."
That's just absurd. You're absolutely right that without exclusives there's very little reason to get multiple consoles, but that's exactly why exclusives are a *BAD* thing. "Gee, I want to blow MORE money!"
I swear, sometimes I get the impression that half of the gamers out there would be thrilled by the idea of buying a separate $300+ system for every single game they play.
War Machine @ Aug 26th 2008 4:20PM
Oh my god, stop talking!
Abscissa @ Aug 26th 2008 4:36PM
Stop making sense!
@self: Stop making obscure pop-culture references!
@self: Stop making self-referential meta-jokes!
WhoMe @ Aug 26th 2008 4:59PM
Yeah stop making "veiled" stabs and stfu.
I you play this game with a decent setup (HD screen and 5.1 sound) it is an audiovisual treat unlike any other. The sheer size and attention to detail in every little corner blows my mind. MGS4 imho is a fucken experience of such quality which we probably won't see anymore this generation.
Of course, this is all contingent on the fact of you liking Kojima's style AND having played all the previous MGS games (you won't really get it otherwise since there's so much fan service/references).
If you don't care for the game, then fine, but stop trying to make it appear as if no one other than PS3 owners care about this game or that it's not among the greatest games of this year.
Marty @ Aug 26th 2008 5:17PM
@Immortal
"I would assume that the majority of 360 only owners want MGS 4 because this rumor has persisted. This rumor was grabbed from thin air by those same users I speak of. In any case, it's equally flawed thinking for you to deny it as it would be for me to buy it. You can't have it both ways. We will agree to disagree. But, i do think its safe to assume a great number of 360 only owners want this game."
"Don't make stuff up out of thin air to suite your argument."
'nuff said.
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 9:47PM
@Abscissa
The amount of stupid going around today is giving me a headache. Let me go ahead and tell you why your using flawed logic.
Exclusives make a system worth buying. This gives a developer the ability to actually play to the consoles strength instead of simply having parity so the versions are equal. Other than the extra features these consoles offer ,which are all very different, the exclusives are what set them apart.
There is noting wrong with owning 1 console. There is also nothing wrong with owning all 3. The fact we have 3 competitors pushing the industry forward by always outdoing each other is a much better industry than a 1 console industry that becomes stale and convoluted. If you want 1 system for all your games build a nice PC rig. Otherwise, exclusives are what make systems distinctly different.
____________________ personal story __________________________________________
I bought the 360 first because it came out first. I had a horrible experience with it in terms of reliability. Still loved the console and a lot of the games for a while. Then the PS3 & Wii came out around the same time. I picked up the PS3 for myself because I wanted Blu-Ray & I have a huge catalog of PS2 games. Not to mention there were a lot of games that had me excited at launch and the benefit of getting free features not available on the 360. I picked up the Wii for similar reasons. Huge catalog of GC games and unlike the other two this is a system my fiance and children (both 6) could enjoy as well.
So you see it all worked out. In the end I began to loathe the 360 for reasons well documented. The PS3 turned into my entertainment center (60 Gb). I work very hard and I play harder. Other than a few other hobbies video games are my hobby. The question for me becomes why not own all three.
@Marty
Agreed.
John @ Aug 27th 2008 2:23AM
Mcpoop:
your Fiance and children are both 6? ewww (sorry, I know I'm lame)
Abscissa is just a grumpy old cheapskate, he complains about the price of everything in his posts.
He probably still uses a rotary phone because those newfangled cordless contraptions is too 'spensive.
Griff @ Aug 26th 2008 2:06PM
There! Thank you for finally clearing this up!
Now 360 users will finally shut up about the port. Its not happening! get over it. I have a 360, and im freaking sick of everyone saying "its comming soon!!!11!1lol"
Jakka(Naked Peach Brigade) @ Aug 26th 2008 2:13PM
Yeah, but you see a lot of us(and me) don't give a shit about the game, but are pissed off with Kojima's bullshit about how "port may not be possible."
Hideo,MGS4 port is anything but "not possible".Just learn how to compress your bloody lossless orchestra and 1540ipb cut-scenes and I bet you won't have a single problem fitting the game on a SINGLE DVD DISC.
Oh and [+1] for MGO. Do want it.
heypaul @ Aug 26th 2008 2:32PM
I'm rather certain the reason for the size of the game is the number of unique textures that are used. There are so many surfaces in the game that you see once in a particular place and never again. Not only that, to accomodate the level-of-detail technologies they use, there are multiple versions of the same texture, including the ultra high quality one they use when you go to the camo menu, where every single texture is normal mapped.
Yes, the loseless audio probably takes a good amount of space (but no more being 7.1 surround than if it was mono, actually), but the cutscenes are almost all real-time (with the exception of the end of the Eastern Europe act and one more I noticed but can't remember) so they should take little extra space.
I still tend to think it technically could be ported, since the acts format lends itself well to a multi-disc format, but if Kojima himself has sound multiple times that it can't be done, hell, wouldn't you trust his knowledge on this one more than yours and mine?
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 2:37PM
"but if Kojima himself has sound multiple times that it can't be done, hell, wouldn't you trust his knowledge on this one more than yours and mine?"
Exactly. Kojima knows better than all of us. there is no reason to thing it is not technically possible. The fact of the matter is that the game can not be ported in its current state without a tremendous amount of work. Kojima does not want to make crappy ports that are full of bugs. That is actually an admirable quality. It's not just about the money but also about his vision of his masterpiece. If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
Hasney @ Aug 26th 2008 3:54PM
I'm sorry, but all he has to do is say "It will not happen". The phrase "May not be possible" sounds like they are looking into that possibility.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is coming, but if he doesn't want questions he needs to catagorically state that it isn't.
doom saber @ Aug 26th 2008 5:39PM
@jakka. With the exception of the short live action ads, the cut scenes in MGS4 is actually real time.
Dwag @ Aug 26th 2008 2:07PM
Just release MGO on the 360 already I mean seriously gamers just want the online nowadays.
MGO standalone on a disc with all the DLC and bonus content FTW
Lag @ Aug 26th 2008 2:08PM
Even if it was over 10 DVD's or so, it would be a great game for the PC, I would buy windows and install it on my iMac to do so as long as it had controller support
Frank @ Aug 26th 2008 2:09PM
So when's it gonna be on 360?
Leobebes (BDF: Braid Defence Force) @ Aug 26th 2008 2:10PM
Of course he's tired. His xenophobic nature is being challenged whenever someone brings up this topic.
Remember the PS3 is like cinema, the 360 like home video, and the Wii is like watching one of those little 1920's b&w white reels at the penny arcade.
MSG4 is like too advanced for the 360. It would be like putting ketchup on Foi Gras and washing it down with Dr. Pepper because the 360 is too American.
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 2:23PM
Thats absurd. Calling Kojima-san xenophobic because he does not want to butcher his game via a shotty port is extremely disingenious and smells of fanboy jealousy. The game in it's current state would not be possible on the 360. Period. I don't see why you have to attack this guy and throw out baseless accusations because he is being honest. I will take Kojima's word over the games portability over a arm-chair QB like yourself.
arrrgh @ Aug 26th 2008 2:23PM
just like ffXIII "was"
Noshino @ Aug 26th 2008 2:31PM
when are you going to stop making up bs? So since he doesn't want to port it for his own reasons, you go ahead and call him xenophobic?...
He has mentioned thousands of times that he has been influenced by Gears and, to some extent, Bioshock, he offered more gameplay options to please the western audience, he was the one that gave a lot of power to Payton...and you call him xenophobic? grow some balls and stop making up crap whenever you don't get what you want
Jakka(Naked Peach Brigade) @ Aug 26th 2008 2:32PM
"The game in it's current state would not be possible on the 360. Period."
And why is that? (Aside from the space issue that can be taken care of via skilled compression.)
Dopple Boppler @ Aug 26th 2008 2:32PM
How is Kojima xenophobic when MGS2 came out on the Xbox back in, what, 2002?
Jack of No Trades 85 @ Aug 26th 2008 2:39PM
@Jakka
Original Statment: "The game in it's current state would not be possible on the 360. Period."
Jakka's reply: "And why is that? (Aside from the space issue that can be taken care of via skilled compression.)"
You just awnsered your own question idiot.
Your starting to take Fernando's place as most annoying poster.
Noshino @ Aug 26th 2008 2:47PM
Yup, that's what I admire about him, thing is, unlike many other dev houses, Kojima has a lot of power within Konami, that allows him to do many things that even developers of his caliber can't do (e.g. Mikami not being able to secure Capcom's 5 exclusivity)
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 2:49PM
@Jakka
Because the game was optimized for the PS3. We see all the time that multiplatform games get inferior ports (usually the PS3) because the 360 was the lead console. To make the game have the same quality of the PS3 version would probably take a lot more effort than it's worth. It's not as if some magic button can be pushed and then BAM you have a 360 port.
I do not know all of the technical reasons. However, if the creator of the game Kojima says that it can't be done I am willing to take his word for it. He would know better than anyone. Maybe it's not possible because the funds are not there for a proper port.
I will take Kojima's word on the issue as gospel.
Leobebes (BDF: Braid Defence Force) @ Aug 26th 2008 3:02PM
I just exposed all you fanboys for what you are. Fanboys that follow the path of irrational thought processes.
How come Kojima and Konami get free passes when it comes to being criticized for not following multi platform development despite being a third party independent developer? 2K got hit for Bioshock, Capcom keeps getting hit over the head for Dead Rising failing to come to the the PS3, Bioware and EA get bothered 24/7 if Mass Effect or its sequels are coming to the PS3 and no one claims, "Well they can't because they were maximized for the PS3 hurr durr!"
The biggest myth this generation has been the overestimation of the PS3's power relative to the 360. Sony's only saving grace for jumping in late to the party was to create the illusion through aggressive marketing that the PS3 was 3 times more powerful than the 360. Judging by some of your comments it worked.
Who cares if MSg4 is on 3 discs, the game purportedly is around 30-40 gigs, I don't have to wait for load times! Other than the disc swap there is nothing the Ps3 can do that the 360 can't. In retrospect one can argue that Dead Rising cannot be done on the PS3 because of the split RAM on the PS3 and the dedication of mass AI resources for zombie generation on a massive scale like the on the 360.
Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Aug 26th 2008 3:11PM
@Leobebes
It looks as if you were the one exposed for being a bigot and throwing out slander and baseless accusations. Maybe if you keep telling yourslef a port is possible it will actually come true!
Keep dreaming. Bigot.
BIGFAT @ Aug 26th 2008 3:18PM
"LEAVE HIDEO KOJIMA ALONE!!!!!!!!
HOW FUCKING DARE ANYONE OUT THERE MAKE FUN OF HIDEO KOJIMA, AFTER ALL HES BEEN THROUGH ALL YOU PEOPLE CARE ABOUT IS HIS READERS AND MAKING MONEY OFF OF GAME SALES. HES A HUMAN!!!!!!!! WHAT YOU DON'T REALIZE IS PS3 IS MAKING HIM ALL THIS MONEY AND ALL YOU DO IS TALK CRAP ABOUT HIM.
LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!!!!!"
-Chris Crocker
Noshino @ Aug 26th 2008 3:25PM
Leobebes,
Seriously, what the fuck...
Problem with all of those titles that you have mentioned is that they are not even close to the size of MGS4, not only that, but not one of those titles has any Xbox 360 content.
On top of that, Dead Rising WAS developed with a multiplatform engine...
Tephlon @ Aug 26th 2008 3:28PM
"The biggest myth this generation has been the overestimation of the PS3's power relative to the 360. Sony's only saving grace for jumping in late to the party was to create the illusion through aggressive marketing that the PS3 was 3 times more powerful than the 360. Judging by some of your comments it worked."
Thank god some one else sees the light. I had a discussion concerning this back in a Killzone 2 post in reference to someone's assertion that the ps3 "three times more powerful than the xbox"
Leobebes is right, it's the biggest myth out there.
And while I don't argue that it would be quite difficult to port, and maybe even unprofitable to do so... the assumption and assertion that the ps3 is doing anything that the 360 cannot do is completely false.
I'm happy to see not everyone has been swayed by Sony's heavy cell marketing.
Haggard @ Aug 26th 2008 3:53PM
I'm not sure I agree with all of Leobebes opinions, but he is certainly right about the PS3/360. Sure, it's a little more powerful in the CPU department, if you can code your game to be split onto seven cores.
But CPU headroom is rarely a barrier for modern games - graphics processing is. The PS3's GPU is again a little more powerful than the 360's, but they are both based on technology that was being fitted into mid-range PC's 2-3 years ago.
leobebes @ Aug 26th 2008 4:00PM
@johnny
Wait a minute I'm a bigot for suggesting that Kojima himself might be a bigot? I guess I learn something new every day.
Also why is Kojima off limits for some of you? Cliffy B, Jonathon Blow, and Dennis Dyak are a butt of everyone's jokes and no one cares. Yet you pick on Kojima, and you are pounced on faster than vultures on a dead carcass.
I have the right to criticize Kojima, no one who plays as much into video game politics as himself should be above criticism.
leobebes @ Aug 26th 2008 4:03PM
@haggard
John Carmack, founder of ID (Doom), said that the only difference in implementing RAGE between the PS3 and the 360 would be storage. PS3 has the upper hand in storage of textures due to licensing constraints that Microsoft does not want to subsidize for multiple disc publishing. Other than that, Carmack even said the 360 is still more powerful in the GPU/CPU arena.
Noshino @ Aug 26th 2008 4:40PM
Leobebes,
Sigh, Kojima is not like those developers that you have mentioned because unlike all of them he does have history on a publisher, remember that he was the vice president of Konami, he, unlike those that you mentioned, knows the ins and outs of the business
"Other than that, Carmack even said the 360 is still more powerful in the GPU/CPU arena."
Not exactly...
"You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it. If you're doing a game like people just want to do games now, the 360's the better platform"
"If you were doing a whole lot of simulation, you can in theory get more performance out of the Cell processor than out of the two other dual-thread processors on the 360, but that's a big 'in theory'"
He just said that the 360 is more efficient, not more powerful...
And once again, id Tech 5 is a multiplatform engine, Kojima has been saying time after time that MGS4 has been optimized for the PS3...
Maverick Saturn @ Aug 26th 2008 5:59PM
Ya know Leo, going around the internet snapping at fanboys and getting a small erection every time you 'expose' a fanboy really does nothing to justify your arguments.
Highcharity @ Aug 26th 2008 2:10PM
Poor guy it was his birthday yesterday and people are still bugging him. People just need to take a nice cup of STFU and buy a PS3 if your that crazy about it.
Zsavior @ Aug 26th 2008 2:11PM
I got to say I agree with Kojima people constantly talk about supporting games supporting games, but then only support the games when it is on their system. You want MGS4 that bad pick up a PS.
Haggard @ Aug 26th 2008 2:11PM
I'll take a PC port anyday, though my hard drive won't be too pleased with all those cutscenes.
Curmeo @ Aug 26th 2008 2:12PM
if u Xbox guys seriously wanna play MGS4, then just go ahead and buy a $399 80GB PS3. u wont have to pay for online play, plus its wifi out of the box. i got a launch 60GB PS3 and i used PS2 BC like twice. there are so many good PS3/PSN games out there now that i'd rather play those instead. besides who doesnt have a PS2 in their house, its sold 140 million units for crying out loud.