[Via Edge Online]
Stringer tips hat to Nintendo's 'superior business model'
by James Ransom-Wiley 
on Aug 28th 2008 4:45PM
77
[Via Edge Online]
Reader Comments (77)
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:12PM cuteSAVAGE said
"What game has the best graphics on PS2? God of War II?"
Okami, hello? Shadow of the Colossus, Final Fantasy XII, Metal Gear Solid 3... Also nice :)
Okami, hello? Shadow of the Colossus, Final Fantasy XII, Metal Gear Solid 3... Also nice :)
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:13PM cuteSAVAGE said
What in tarnation? Was supposed to be a reply to Fernando, many apologies.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:27PM atrimus said
"No, PlayStation 3 is hurting PlayStation 3"
anyway, that may be true from a business perspective, where you're measuring revenue vs. profit, but from a gamer's perspective i'd say the PS3's been on the up-swing. software sales are up, worldwide it outsold it's nearest competitor last year, and so far this year it's outsold the same competitor in every major territory. it has a few A, AA and AAA exclusives under it's belt, and plenty more are coming in '08 and '09. in the past mismanagement hurt the PS3, and there is still plenty of room for progress, but the system is in a much better place now than it was.
anyway, that may be true from a business perspective, where you're measuring revenue vs. profit, but from a gamer's perspective i'd say the PS3's been on the up-swing. software sales are up, worldwide it outsold it's nearest competitor last year, and so far this year it's outsold the same competitor in every major territory. it has a few A, AA and AAA exclusives under it's belt, and plenty more are coming in '08 and '09. in the past mismanagement hurt the PS3, and there is still plenty of room for progress, but the system is in a much better place now than it was.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:30PM Hyams said
Out of curiosity, why doesn't Joystiq mention this part in the article?
"We are already making more money with the games than we are losing with the hardware."
It appears immediatly after the part quoted in the article above, but Joystiq neglected to mention it.
It's certainly relevent - and kind of cancels out the "Playstation 3 is hurting Playstation 3" jibe - and without it it gives the impression that Sony are in a weaker financial position than they actually are.
"We are already making more money with the games than we are losing with the hardware."
It appears immediatly after the part quoted in the article above, but Joystiq neglected to mention it.
It's certainly relevent - and kind of cancels out the "Playstation 3 is hurting Playstation 3" jibe - and without it it gives the impression that Sony are in a weaker financial position than they actually are.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:20PM (Unverified) said
@Hyams: It's cause they love to see tmacairjordan and killjebus make idiots out of themselves.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:36PM LaughingTarget said
But by how much? I have a hard time believing even with profitable software that the margin will cover the losses in any reasonable time frame. Sony won't have 120 million units to pull PS3 software royalties from. They'll probably peak around 40 million.
From just about every standpoint that doesn't involve subjective quality arguments the PS3 is a dud.
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From just about every standpoint that doesn't involve subjective quality arguments the PS3 is a dud.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 8:18PM (Unverified) said
If anyone's the idiots on this site its the Nintendo fanboys who stay around while they continously get raped by their beloved company. Seriously they should grow a pair and kick nintendo to the curb.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2008 8:59PM SpartacusMagnus said
atrimus,
PS3 has been outselling the 360 everywhere for about a year? Source?
The PS3 has only outsold the 360 in North America in the months of May and June (with August not final)...
And expect September's price drop to drastically increase the 360's sales performance.
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PS3 has been outselling the 360 everywhere for about a year? Source?
The PS3 has only outsold the 360 in North America in the months of May and June (with August not final)...
And expect September's price drop to drastically increase the 360's sales performance.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 9:26PM atrimus said
@ Spartacus
PS3 outselling the 360 across Europe, claims Microsoft have yet to refute:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7386879.stm
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13876.cfm
in the US, the PS3 outsold the 360 in Jan, Feb, May, Jun and July. March was a marginal win for the 360, while April can almost be considered a dead even, with nothing more than a few hundred separating sales.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17412
http://www.thesimexchange.com/blogpost.php?post_id=482
http://videoonlinegames.suite101.com/article.cfm/may_2008_video_game_sales_charts
http://uk.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUKN1747424020080719
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10017627-52.html
i see no point in bringing up Japan. who knows what the future holds. 360's price dropped in July, and they still lost the month to PS3. Nintendo's cleaning everyone's clock though.
Reply
PS3 outselling the 360 across Europe, claims Microsoft have yet to refute:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7386879.stm
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13876.cfm
in the US, the PS3 outsold the 360 in Jan, Feb, May, Jun and July. March was a marginal win for the 360, while April can almost be considered a dead even, with nothing more than a few hundred separating sales.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17412
http://www.thesimexchange.com/blogpost.php?post_id=482
http://videoonlinegames.suite101.com/article.cfm/may_2008_video_game_sales_charts
http://uk.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUKN1747424020080719
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10017627-52.html
i see no point in bringing up Japan. who knows what the future holds. 360's price dropped in July, and they still lost the month to PS3. Nintendo's cleaning everyone's clock though.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:47PM Gwr said
fanboysm aside, why all the hate against the wii and its style
sure its the weaker gimmickl casual console, but the fact that its succesfull proofs that there is a place for a weak gimmick casual console
and the wii fills that spot
sure its the weaker gimmickl casual console, but the fact that its succesfull proofs that there is a place for a weak gimmick casual console
and the wii fills that spot
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:24PM Vcize said
The hate stems from people worrying that everyone starts attacking that spot (afterall, from a business sense why wouldn't you, it's cheaper, has less risk, and brings in more money), and those of us that actually want online capability, great graphics, and games that aren't mostly shovelware are going to get left behind by everyone, rather than just Nintendo.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2008 5:57PM zero2dash said
If some of you spent less time console bashing and more time working you'd have enough money to buy all 3 consoles and that would solve all of your problems.
Do continue though if it makes you happy. I'll keep enjoying all 3 consoles (when and if Nintendo releases something on the Wii that I give a crap about).
Do continue though if it makes you happy. I'll keep enjoying all 3 consoles (when and if Nintendo releases something on the Wii that I give a crap about).
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:32PM Vcize said
Much to your surprise, most of the trolls on this network own, or have owned all 3 consoles.
We typically have the good type of troll around here (with the exception of a few, of course *cough* el serpiente *cough*). That is, those that hate a console due to their own personal experience with it.
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We typically have the good type of troll around here (with the exception of a few, of course *cough* el serpiente *cough*). That is, those that hate a console due to their own personal experience with it.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:05PM Supermanisdead said
At least this guy is not like the crazy SCE guys who are all like "teh wii sucks, teh ps3 will win rofl!".
He is right for saying it, and he makes himself and his company seem much more human.
He is right for saying it, and he makes himself and his company seem much more human.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:30PM Vcize said
This comment by Stringer worries me. Fortunately, Sony and MS aren't typically ones to cater to the casual, but what's to say in a few years when the next gen of consoles aren't around Stringers quote goes further, to something like: "Nintendo had a superior business model, and we want to try our luck with that business model (catering to the casual) as well"?
I mean really, shoving crap at the soccer moms is less costly to produce, less risky, and brings in more money. Why exactly does anyone want to continue catering to the hardcore in the future?
This is the exact same path that television went down. "Wait, crappy reality and game shows cost 1/10th the amount to produce and bring in just as much, if not more money? Then why the hell are we wasting all this time and money making these deep serialized shows with intracate plots, good actors, and great production values?"
Remember a few years back when there were more of those types of shows than we knew what to do with? There are a couple still hanging in there, but nothing like there used to be and I haven't heard of a single new one being planned, which means when the current crop hits its end we'll probably be left with none.
I mean really, shoving crap at the soccer moms is less costly to produce, less risky, and brings in more money. Why exactly does anyone want to continue catering to the hardcore in the future?
This is the exact same path that television went down. "Wait, crappy reality and game shows cost 1/10th the amount to produce and bring in just as much, if not more money? Then why the hell are we wasting all this time and money making these deep serialized shows with intracate plots, good actors, and great production values?"
Remember a few years back when there were more of those types of shows than we knew what to do with? There are a couple still hanging in there, but nothing like there used to be and I haven't heard of a single new one being planned, which means when the current crop hits its end we'll probably be left with none.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:47PM (Unverified) said
Eventually the casual game market will become saturated under your argument, and thus uninteresting. They'll start selling less, and since casual games are usually cheaper than non-casual ones, they'll start making less. People will want something more substantial than that, and they'll be willing to pay for it. So, it gets turned around again.
It's similar I guess to when games first started getting popular. They weren't meant to be played for hours on end (in most cases), they were meant to be played for fun in bars or what-have-you. PONG may have been a blast when blasted, but it wasn't going to hold people's attention for the amount of time games today do. So, those gamers created more and more complex games, resulting in what we have today. If we get nothing but casual games for a while, the same cycle will start over again.
I hope.
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It's similar I guess to when games first started getting popular. They weren't meant to be played for hours on end (in most cases), they were meant to be played for fun in bars or what-have-you. PONG may have been a blast when blasted, but it wasn't going to hold people's attention for the amount of time games today do. So, those gamers created more and more complex games, resulting in what we have today. If we get nothing but casual games for a while, the same cycle will start over again.
I hope.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 8:21PM (Unverified) said
"Eventually the casual game market will become saturated under your argument, and thus uninteresting. They'll start selling less, and since casual games are usually cheaper than non-casual ones, they'll start making less. People will want something more substantial than that, and they'll be willing to pay for it."
You expect far too much from the idiotic uninformed masses. I hope you're right, really I do but you can't just expect morons to turn around one day and start making smart, informed choices when it comes to their videogames.
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You expect far too much from the idiotic uninformed masses. I hope you're right, really I do but you can't just expect morons to turn around one day and start making smart, informed choices when it comes to their videogames.
Posted: Aug 29th 2008 12:52AM (Unverified) said
*bites tongue, spits blood*
It's not a "one day" thing. This is a very cyclical entity, which takes time to evolve, constantly referring back to itself, like fashion, or any other art.
It's evident in the fact that we have "neoclassical" artworks coming out already. Check out N+, Braid, Bionic Commando, and Mega Man 9.
You're the person who gets to prove me wrong 15 years down the road, tmac.
Reply
It's not a "one day" thing. This is a very cyclical entity, which takes time to evolve, constantly referring back to itself, like fashion, or any other art.
It's evident in the fact that we have "neoclassical" artworks coming out already. Check out N+, Braid, Bionic Commando, and Mega Man 9.
You're the person who gets to prove me wrong 15 years down the road, tmac.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:32PM (Unverified) said
He makes a very good point here, which is that the Wii isn't really competing with the ps3, or the 360 for that matter. In fact, the reason Nintendo is doing so well is that they have targeted a different segment of the market, something that had been untapped.
However, I think this superior business model was as much a result of necessity as it was ingenuity. Nintendo had a (relatively) weak showing for the past two generations. Indeed, they were most likely still making profit (don't have the numbers, but it's not overly important), but following the trend and releasing a highly-powered Nintendo would put them in direct competition with MS and Sony, and victory would not be guaranteed.
Nintendo relies much more on their video games & hardware for income than Sony and MS. In the case of Sony and MS, their consoles are secondary aspects of their business. They are able to support them with other income, and eat a loss if necessary. They can also accept losing money on the whole, because these products can be used to tie into different products of theirs, thereby boosting sales in those areas(blu ray is a good example of this).
Nintendo has some of these opportunities as well, but not to the magnitude of the other two. Thus, taking them head on would be more risky than it's worth. If they got buried by the competition this generation, they would have to take a serious look at exiting the home console market.
So it's both marketing and innovation. By introducing something that can't compete power wise, but can change the way games are played, simplify them, and make them more accessible to untapped markets, they were effectively able to go uncontested into many areas.
By marketing it towards the casual crowd, they were able to get a huge amount of penetration into homes where there is already another game system. The amount of multi console homes (specifically 360/ps3 with a Wii) is surely higher now than it was a generation ago.
So, while Stringer has a great point, he also is right not to worry. After all, there are plenty of people out there, like me, who own a Wii and are actively deciding which console they should get next, once they can afford it. And I, for one, will not be getting a third, in this generation. They have other things to worry about.
Of course, I have no numbers to back any of what I just said up, but I think it makes a lot of sense. If someone has a different theory, I would love to hear it.
However, I think this superior business model was as much a result of necessity as it was ingenuity. Nintendo had a (relatively) weak showing for the past two generations. Indeed, they were most likely still making profit (don't have the numbers, but it's not overly important), but following the trend and releasing a highly-powered Nintendo would put them in direct competition with MS and Sony, and victory would not be guaranteed.
Nintendo relies much more on their video games & hardware for income than Sony and MS. In the case of Sony and MS, their consoles are secondary aspects of their business. They are able to support them with other income, and eat a loss if necessary. They can also accept losing money on the whole, because these products can be used to tie into different products of theirs, thereby boosting sales in those areas(blu ray is a good example of this).
Nintendo has some of these opportunities as well, but not to the magnitude of the other two. Thus, taking them head on would be more risky than it's worth. If they got buried by the competition this generation, they would have to take a serious look at exiting the home console market.
So it's both marketing and innovation. By introducing something that can't compete power wise, but can change the way games are played, simplify them, and make them more accessible to untapped markets, they were effectively able to go uncontested into many areas.
By marketing it towards the casual crowd, they were able to get a huge amount of penetration into homes where there is already another game system. The amount of multi console homes (specifically 360/ps3 with a Wii) is surely higher now than it was a generation ago.
So, while Stringer has a great point, he also is right not to worry. After all, there are plenty of people out there, like me, who own a Wii and are actively deciding which console they should get next, once they can afford it. And I, for one, will not be getting a third, in this generation. They have other things to worry about.
Of course, I have no numbers to back any of what I just said up, but I think it makes a lot of sense. If someone has a different theory, I would love to hear it.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:49PM Ovy said
I'm glad he's being honest about it. I won't be buying a ps3 but it has less to do with Microsfot and Nintendo out-doing Sony and mroe to do with Sony thesmelves messing up. PS3 is just too damn expensive. It turns out market share is more important than a blu-ray drive or faster parts. I've outgrown fanboyism at this point -- I just want the most bang for my buck. PS2 gave me that last generation. Xbox 360 is giving me that this generation.
(alas, I will always buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. A nintendo console in a 3-console market will not keep me from buying at least one of the others. That's not fanboyism, just getting the greatest breadth of games as cheaply as possible).
(alas, I will always buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. A nintendo console in a 3-console market will not keep me from buying at least one of the others. That's not fanboyism, just getting the greatest breadth of games as cheaply as possible).
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:53PM (Unverified) said
I agree with you 100% on the outgrowing fanboyism thing.
I just like video games, and can't believe people will go without playing some of the better ones just because it's on a console they don't like for arbitrary reasons.
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I just like video games, and can't believe people will go without playing some of the better ones just because it's on a console they don't like for arbitrary reasons.
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 6:53PM (Unverified) said
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 7:01PM wshwe said
Sony is in denial!
Posted: Aug 28th 2008 7:29PM leobebes said
Seriously though can someone please buy Mr. Stringer a hair straightener.
The whole kinky curly thing is so Mr. Brady it was annoying then and annoying now.
The whole kinky curly thing is so Mr. Brady it was annoying then and annoying now.
Posted: Aug 29th 2008 5:07PM (Unverified) said
Well, now we all know who sings showtunes in the shower.
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