Guitar Hero: World Tour lacks a 'No Fail' option
by Ross Miller 
{ Sep 3rd 2008 at 7:00AM }
The lack of a "No Fail" option certainly isn't going to be a game-changer -- after all, its predecessors (including RB1) sold very well without it. And although the virtual rock elitist might scoff at the notion that it's now harder to fail songs, GH:WT does have the added bonus of presenting a detailed analysis of your performance after each song (we've placed an exemplary image after the break Update: Now it really is after the break). We'll have more on our time at PAX 2008 with the game, specifically the drums, later this week.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jerry micheals @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:09AM
I guess that's it then.
Psaakyrn @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:21AM
You guess what's what?
xxHughesxx @ Sep 3rd 2008 8:10AM
I guess he means he isnt going to get it because of that, although thats frankly ridiculous, its going to have the same form of cheat codes present in GH3, which allowed no fail, once you had unlocked it by putting the code in it was simply a matter of changing the options.
So really, i dont even understand why joystiq is making such a big deal about this.
copa @ Sep 3rd 2008 8:53AM
"its going to have the same form of cheat codes present in GH3, which allowed no fail."
Try reading the post. They explicitly said no cheat code to enable this.
Ryura @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:10AM
"(we've placed an exemplary image after the break)"
No. No you haven't.
Jakka(Naked Peach Brigade) @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:18AM
It was probably a rickroll anyway...
NSanity @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:20AM
OR EVEN A ROSS-ROLL?
haw haw haw.
Ross Miller @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:10AM
I'm never gonna give that up ;)
Human error, problem solved.
nsanity @ Sep 3rd 2008 5:40PM
what image?
ChuckD @ Sep 3rd 2008 7:36AM
Hawt image!
Ayrkain @ Sep 3rd 2008 8:19AM
As long as you can't record video of your performance on No Fail, I'm cool. Singstar Online is totally bizarre because of the conflux of those two settings.
Psaakyrn @ Sep 3rd 2008 8:33AM
Another off-topic, but...
Having scripts after the html tag is not very nice. When I leave a page to wait for it to finish rendering/loading, I do not expect it to close with a network connection error just because one of the tags after the html fails to resolve.
knighty (GT: ZeraKnight) @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:10AM
Hardly surprisingly with how poorly coded Joystiq is.
Poisoned Al @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:00AM
Am I getting old, or is this worrying? I grew up with a Sinclair ZX Spectrum, and one theme of all the games on that platform was that they were almost all impossible to finish. These days you get games even the most slack-jawed, uncoordinated retard can complete within a weekend. Soon the games will play themselves, while the drooling masses stare at the screen, clapping like spastics at the explosions and pretty colours.
For fuck's stake, it's a GAME. The point of a game is for there to be a winner at the risk of LOSING! If you can't lose, WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT IN PLAYING? There is no reward as winning is meaningless.
The only excuse for this is not to upset anyone, like "everyone gets a trophy day." Everyone's a winner, even the losers so they don't totally spac out. Seriously, if you can handle losing, I don't want to know you, so I wouldn't be playing anything with you.
meledeo @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:23AM
For the typical game, I agree with you completely. However, this is not the typical class of games. I know at least 5 people who play Rock Band that do not play any other games at all, and all of them were very excited about the possibility of trying out Expert (or even Hard in some cases) without worrying that our party is going to suck because we keep failing the song.
I'm also excited about this because maybe I'll get to do something besides play drums when we get together. No one but me wants to touch them now because even Easy is too hard for a lot of people.
Jakka(Naked Peach Brigade) @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:25AM
"Soon the games will play themselves, while the drooling masses stare at the screen, clapping like spastics at the explosions and pretty colours."
Soon? Somebody forgot about MGS4.
Wiinterfang @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:51AM
A people say Sonic games play themselves T_T.
funny enough those are the ones that say, the game had too many pits and it's easy to die.
Boffo the Sock @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:27AM
"For fuck's stake, it's a GAME. The point of a game is for there to be a winner at the risk of LOSING! If you can't lose, WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT IN PLAYING? There is no reward as winning is meaningless."
Some people would argue that the point of playing a game is to have fun. Obviously your idea of fun is something in the spirit of competition. Not everybody agrees with that notion of fun. With a no fail option, everybody wins. The people who just want to have fun with their friends don't have to worry about failing and ruining the experience for anybody else, and the competitive dick can keep his mouth shut and 5* the hell out of songs and then play with the option OFF when he's all alone in his bitter little world.
JonFitt @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:35AM
It's funny because I always thought 8-bit games were criminally difficult because of a crippling lack of content (most story based games had 5 or 9 levels), that and very poor collision detection.
With the "classic" arcade games it was done to get more money out of you.
I get the impression Poisoned Al is great fun at a family Christmas as he pounds the final checker piece down and tells little Timmy that he's his b1tch and shouldn't even try because losers disgust him.
Roberto @ Sep 3rd 2008 12:20PM
The NO FAIL feature is important to me because I have lots of kids that come over to my house that are 2 and 3 years old and are not yet coordinated enough to even finish a song on easy. My own son is starting to get older where he grasps the concept of wanting to attempt to play and this helps out alot because he gets to push buttons and see a response on the screen while me and my wife are able to concentrate on our portion.
Most kids 2 - 3 years old realize when you disconnected their instrument and it isn't really them playing. NO FAIL is a fantastic option for families with young children who want to participate.
Squeek @ Sep 3rd 2008 1:11PM
Roberto: Good thing Activision already understood this and added Beginner mode.
PoopHatWearer @ Sep 3rd 2008 4:42PM
Too bad, since it seems that GH:WT is an auto-fail itself.
Smasandian @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:19AM
The point of the no fail option is that Rock Band 2 is a party game and there is alot of people who like to play Rock Band but dont play games.
Those people, and there is alot of them can play parts in one of the harder songs (For Ex. Enter Sandman)and not worry about ruining the song for the other people, who probably have been playing Rock Band for quite some time.
Its great because now some of my friends can play harder songs and we dont have to replay it 15 times because the bass player on easy cant play.
Rollins @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:26AM
I think we all have *that* friend. :)
Alex @ Sep 3rd 2008 12:26PM
Because Karen is always a bag of douche.
deaftly @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:21AM
Just call the fucking game Guitar Hero:Rock Band
Burritoclock @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:29AM
I really wanted to get it and give it a chance, but it is looking less and less likely...
That money could go toward the ion drums.
Rollins @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:25AM
I personally think this part was more interesting than the main point of the article: "Also interesting is that you can't save your bandmates should one fail; instead, you can comparatively miss more notes than in RB and stay alive."
I understand that in a real rock band, a singer can't magically make his guitarist suck less; then again, a real guitar will still make noises other than the ones that RB/GH guitars do when you miss notes. Being able to save your bandmates in RB is fun and adds to the feeling of the game being a cooperative effort. It sounds like GH is more or less four people playing their instruments simultaneously without any impact on each other.
T @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:05AM
That is my chief concern as well. Does this mean that no matter how well the other three may be doing...we'll ALL fail the song if any one of us fails?
That is a BIG turn off right there. Especially for any casual player who might want to try and join in who's still learning on Easy.
Vanilla Mummy @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:15AM
I completely agree. I love the intense feeling when someone fails and you don't have overdrive and you have to wait to get it while that red line travels up the side.
This game is going to be really annoying when you are at a party, because there is no point in playing songs anymore if your friend can't beat the first part of a song because its more difficult then the rest of the song. So, it'll limit song selection when having parties, not to mention destroying the idea of 4 people working together that Rock Band has established.
I guess they are hoping to ride the coat tails of the song creator and people will ignore all the flaws of the game itself.
Eoco @ Sep 3rd 2008 9:28AM
Guys, the image is there!
It's a polar bear in the arctic during a heavy snow storm.
Ho ho?
DarkD75 @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:17AM
No Fail = Fail for true party fun. The game will still do very well but there is nothing more irritating than getting 3/4 of the way through a song and then failing out. This would have been an easy thing to add to the game.
Poke4Christ @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:26AM
"Not it really is after the break"
I think you meant to say "Now" Joystiq. Forget to have your morning coffee today?
Banana Kid @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:37AM
That doesn't make any sense. There was a no-fail code in every Guitar Hero so far, why would they take it out?
Boffo the Sock @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:37AM
That detailed analysis looks exactly like the same ones that have been in Guitar Hero games since the long long ago but with more columns for the extra band members.
Er...I mean: Ooh! Aah!
Ross Miller @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:37AM
You never know what they're going to keep from the last GH games. After all, they reportedly took out the "No Fail" cheat
T @ Sep 3rd 2008 10:59AM
I couldn't care less about "No Fail", what REALLY irks me is the inability to "save" a bandmate who has failed.
It wasn't so bad when GH was only 2-player co-op. But now that you've got 4 people going...WITH no fail?
It essentially means there's no incentive for less experienced players to try and step up to the next difficulty, as they'll continue to drag down the rest of the band members by constantly failing.
One of the nice things about RB was that while I was really good, I could still play with people who weren't. And they could get BETTER by playing on a higher level because I could help them out with OD and Saves when they would struggle.
But now if anybody wants to try and get better, the rest of the band either has to suffer through it, or the "lesser" person will have to play on their own time. And in some cases that's not a possibility (casual player or somebody who doesn't have the same console)
Sorry GH. I was willing to stick with you through the blatant me too, and you ALMOST convinced me with the music maker.
But this is primarily a party game. And now you've removed not just one, but TWO major aspects that helped this.
FAIL.
Hafk @ Sep 3rd 2008 4:17PM
As for the band saving, I feel that since GH:WT uses a band Rock meter this will not be a problem.
Lets say you have a band that has a great expert singer, drummer, and guitarist, but the bassist is on easy and missing one out of every three notes.
Those expert players should be able to carry the weight of the failing easy player, due to the shared Rock Meter. Also, since the Star Power is shared in a band-wide pool, when that guitarist hits the Star Power phrase, the failing bassist can use it to stay alive.
The lack of band-saving is fine. You guys act like the Rock Band way is the only way to do it.
Besides, it was a no-win situation. Copy RB, and RB community BAWWWWS, go different, and RB community BAWWWWS. Neversoft is stuck in those situations pretty much every day. I feel bad for them. That has to be an overwhelming amount of pressure.
DCBlack @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:13AM
Not sure why they took that out, guess they're continuing the trend of the whole "Our game is better because it's tougher" idea, but now it will also be tougher to fail in GHWT than RB2? Getting dizzy...
Anyway, I'll still get it since it's compatible with the peripherals I have. I never used the no fail anyway. If I bombed, oh well...
doubleofive @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:16AM
I really don't think Neversoft gets it. They're still designing a competitive video game instead of a party music game. I mean look at Guitar Hero III and its boss battles. Who needs boss battles in a music game?
I'm not a very competitive person, so I guess that's why I like the No-Fail option and saving those that do fail out of Rock Band. I'd rather help and encourage people than "win".
Maybe I shouldn't give Neversoft a hard time. Some people are competitive and want that option, so Guitar Hero: WT is good for them. I'm all for competition in business, and I believe that Rock Band will benefit from not being the only "band" game. However, I believe they will be the only "band party" game.
JonFitt @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:53AM
I think Neversoft constantly pander to their old core audience to whom harder = better.
Just look at the fascination with Dragonforce: terrible music, included because it's stupidly hard to play.
I don't play games to be punished and especially party games. Rock Band got this, the mid-difficulty settings are much more reasonable and don't require any practice.
lego91994 @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:29AM
I really don't see what all the fuss is about... for people who aren't that good at the ame they added an extra "Begginer" dificulty which has you press any fret down and strum when lines instead of gems scroll down.
While nice to have, this featre is blown way out of proportion and I can't understand why people would stop buying the game over this issue.
T @ Sep 3rd 2008 11:48AM
Read again there. It's not just "No Fail" (which I lived just fine without in RB).
It's the continued promotion of the "if one fails we ALL fail" concept that they appear to be using here.
Yes, there's a hand-holding "Beginner" mode. But I'm going to go ahead and guess that will stop being fun after one song. Even for somebody who WANTS to try and get better.
The great thing about RB's way of handling failure in multiplayer is that the rest of the band has a chance to carry you. (Just like in a real band, where a weak guitarist can be backed up by strong vocals or a good drummer)
So if I'm at a point where I can kinda beat/kinda not beat songs on Medium, I can just play Medium all the time and my bandmates can support me by saving me when I fail out.
This way I an continue to play on Medium to get better at it, while my band is able to help me through parts I'm still learning.
I've only gotten as far as Hard on VOX and Drums in RB. But online I'll often play on Expert. While my bandmates are using their OD through the course of the song, it's keeping me afloat. All the while I'm getting better at certain aspects that I would normally fail on over and over again if I tried on my own.
I rarely fail vox or drums on expert with a full band, but on solo there's a LOT of songs I can barely play at all.
This is what's wrong with preventing bandmates from helping one another. As somebody else said...World Tour is essentially four solo artists who happen to be playing at the same time.
Unless one fails. Then they're ALL f***ed.
SKI @ Sep 3rd 2008 12:16PM
T the rest of the band can still carry the horrible player that can't hit a single note. It's just that now the bad player can't come back in when they fail out. To me, this is a plus since other people screwing up can cause me to screw up.
T @ Sep 3rd 2008 1:59PM
Is that for sure what's happening here? From what I'm seeing, it looks more like that they're still using the "if one fails we all fail" mentality introduced in GHII.
We'll have to see. I'm wagering following reaction to this statement, we'll see both No Fail and some sort of modified fail system.
Still, this game sounds less like playing "together" and more like playing "at the same time".
elmersglue @ Sep 3rd 2008 12:31PM
I guess we can at least arrive to one definitive conclusion... Activision employees don't drink.
I don't know about you guys, but putting in a no fail mode would've been the first thing I did if I were making the game. Of course...i'm taking into account my friends and their lack of motivation to get good at these types of games...paired with the likelihood of them drinking = no fun at all.
eldee @ Sep 3rd 2008 12:50PM
There has always been a no-fail code you could enter, im sure it'll be the same thing..
Jestersage @ Sep 3rd 2008 1:51PM
Neversoft knew what they are doing, at least to us old DDR/GF/DM vanguard. If You fail, you suck, that's that; you are not hardcore. Yet we have all these same people who complained about GHWT consider themselves as "hardcore gamers" when all they cna do is play causal.
People have no right to bash wii if they want music games to be causal all the time. Oh well, we will just keep letting harmonix ruin music game... just like how nintendo ruin gaming by going causal. (and on hindsight, both are equivalent, in that both are old experienced developers that gone soft)
Talon Lardner @ Sep 3rd 2008 3:17PM
In my opinion, I don't mind difficult stuff. I know full well how much of an accomplishment it is to finally conquer a particularly challenging song. But there's this barrier I have that divides a "Difficult" Song from a "Stupid Difficult" song, where the song is over-charted and is interpreted to be far more difficult than the song actually is. If being hardcore means you have to subject yourself to a difficulty level that is simply not fun, then I don't want to be hardcore.
mietha CAG @ Sep 3rd 2008 1:54PM
The lack of a no-fail is meaningless, but the fact that if any member of your band fails once, you're done, kills it as a MP game for me. I'm not great, but I'm usually better than everyone I play with (in RB). This would annoy them and myself very, very quickly.